Modern UK Wagon Speeds

[Mattmaz]

Hi all,

 

In an attempt to operate my layout in a more prototypical fashion, I am trying to find out the maximum running speeds of the following wagons:

 

OCA

OBA

PNA

MFA

MBA

MCA

TTA

Seacow

BDA

Cargowaggon (As modelled by Heljan, I forget the code!)

 

Any help gratefully received!

 

Regards,

 

Matt

[Fat Controller]

Hi all,

 

In an attempt to operate my layout in a more prototypical fashion, I am trying to find out the maximum running speeds of the following wagons:

 

OCA

OBA

PNA

MFA

MBA

MCA

TTA

Seacow

BDA

Cargowaggon (As modelled by Heljan, I forget the code!)

 

Any help gratefully received!

 

Regards,

 

Matt

Pretty certain the above are all 100 kph/60 mph these days. The OBAs and OCAs were permitted to run at 120 kph/75 mph with a reduced load at one time, I believe, but the need for this disappeared with the demise of Speedlink.

[Glorious NSE]

Yep, pretty sure you're right there Brian

[40044]

Some OBA and OCA are still permitted to run at 75mph when empty or lightly loaded, although in practice will run at 60mph due to almost invariably being marshalled with other wagons with a lower maximum speed. Later IGAs (Cargowaggon flats) can also run at 75mph empty. Everything else is 60mph empty or loaded.

[Guest Phil]

Some OBA and OCA are still permitted to run at 75mph when empty or lightly loaded, although in practice will run at 60mph due to almost invariably being marshalled with other wagons with a lower maximum speed. Later IGAs (Cargowaggon flats) can also run at 75mph empty. Everything else is 60mph empty or loaded.

 

Thats interesting 40044.

 

Do they still bring the imported Austrian rail through the tunnel on IGAs ?

 

As for OBA and OCA, as well as the vans of this generation - they travelled on a 75mph service from Bescot, the headcode of which I am struggling for at the moment. There was a Bristol-Glasgow and a return, the return service I think was 4V10. This would come up with a western region diesel to Bescot and be replaced by two electrics. I had a ride to Crewe on it one night in the back cab of the 2nd loco - a class 87, and I remember the first wagon behind the loco was a "supervan" - probably a VDA.

[40044]

Thats interesting 40044.

 

Do they still bring the imported Austrian rail through the tunnel on IGAs ?

 

Hasn't run for a couple of years Phil.

 

The return empties off the Scunthorpe - Eastleigh, until recently was booked to run as a Class 4 train.

[Edwin_m]

There was an article in one of the mags a couple of years back saying that Freightliner ran some of their empty coal hoppers at 75mph, using a class 66/5 for the purpose, as the benefit of being able to get the wagons back more quickly outweighed any loss of haulage by having to use a loco with lower tractive effort. Presumably the class 70 now gives them both the TE and the maximum speed!

[Poor Old Bruce]

Not on the OP's list but when the original MGR (Should that be HAA?) wagons were introduced they were allowed 60 empty but 45 loaded because they were only braked for the tare condition and needed longer to stop when loaded. Empty/Loaded change-over gear changed that (and the second lettre of the TOPS code) so they could run at 60 loaded.

[Fat Controller]

Thats interesting 40044.

 

Do they still bring the imported Austrian rail through the tunnel on IGAs ?

 

As for OBA and OCA, as well as the vans of this generation - they travelled on a 75mph service from Bescot, the headcode of which I am struggling for at the moment. There was a Bristol-Glasgow and a return, the return service I think was 4V10. This would come up with a western region diesel to Bescot and be replaced by two electrics. I had a ride to Crewe on it one night in the back cab of the 2nd loco - a class 87, and I remember the first wagon behind the loco was a "supervan" - probably a VDA.

We rarely see IGAs through the tunnel at all these days- there was a period when the Scunthorpe- Ebange included a few, but they carried less than each part of an IFA, so didn't last long.

I remember the Bristol - Glasgow from about 1975/6- it was the first air-braked general merchandise service. In those days it was composed of VAA/VBA and OAA, and generally conveyed reeled and palletised paper and tobacco products.

[Steadfast]

There was an article in one of the mags a couple of years back saying that Freightliner ran some of their empty coal hoppers at 75mph, using a class 66/5 for the purpose, as the benefit of being able to get the wagons back more quickly outweighed any loss of haulage by having to use a loco with lower tractive effort. Presumably the class 70 now gives them both the TE and the maximum speed!

AFAIK all the modern designs of bogie coal hopper allow 75mph running, even the EWS ones without low track force bogies. Certainly around here Freightliner, DBS (and Fastline did) run the empties as class 4, but loaded, even with a 70, are class 6. Although the 70 normally runs 6M04 or 6M61 (both of which are 66 timed) 6Z70/4Z70 was the out and back Portbury - Rugeley diagram used when they were new. I presume either the ability to stay on the track, or limiting the damage done is the reasoning behind 60mph loaded running - is anyone able to clarify please?

cheers

 

jo

[Edwin_m]

I suspect the empty wagons would be more prone to derailment than the loaded ones. May be something to do with track damage or could be a brake force issue as mentioned above for the HAAs. For completeness I should mention that all modern intermodal wagons are 75mph loaded or empty.

[Fat Controller]

AFAIK all the modern designs of bogie coal hopper allow 75mph running, even the EWS ones without low track force bogies. Certainly around here Freightliner, DBS (and Fastline did) run the empties as class 4, but loaded, even with a 70, are class 6. Although the 70 normally runs 6M04 or 6M61 (both of which are 66 timed) 6Z70/4Z70 was the out and back Portbury - Rugeley diagram used when they were new. I presume either the ability to stay on the track, or limiting the damage done is the reasoning behind 60mph loaded running - is anyone able to clarify please?

cheers

 

jo

Potential damage to the track, acceleration when loaded, and stopping distance when loaded would be the reasons I suspect. Similar situations used to arise with the loaded/empty slab trains between Teesside and Workington, and still arise with the Scunthorpe- Ebange slab train. A particularily frustrating working used to be the empty vans that had brought mineral water to the UK. If they were completely empty, they could do 120 kph in the Channel Tunnel, making them easier to path. However, if the customer decided to load even one van with returned pallets, then the train would have to run at 100 kph, which is a lot more difficult to path during the day.

[Steadfast]

Thanks guys - I was completely forgetting brake force - D'oh!

Brian, I always find it amazing the difference 20kph can make in terms of pathing and times

cheers

 

jo

[Swindon 123]

Main factor in determining the max speed for freight vehicles is axle loading and weight of the wagon. Once the RA of a vehicle gets to 8 and above they are limited to 60mph. Below that they could be 75 mph. My 1983 Working Manual for Rail Staff, Part B, assesing the train shows that VDA's loaded Heavy still only generated an RA 6 and could run at 75mph whilst VAA, VBA, VCA, VGA, OAA, OBA, OCA, SPA could run at 75mph as long as they where not loaded heavy at which point they became RA8 vehicles and where limited to 60mph. There were a few wagons that had stability problems when running in empty condition such as HBA, TTA, and HAA (although HAA had brake force issues as well that limited there speed even when loaded, but these had mods to the suspension to bring them up to 60mph although MGR's still have issues and any conversions using MGR chassis having restrictions placed on them in certain circumstances.

 

Paul J.

[Glorious NSE]

For completeness I should mention that all modern intermodal wagons are 75mph loaded or empty.

 

FCA's I believe are only 60mph loaded, they are currently doing a conversion program to FYA to create a higher speed fleet for deep sea intermodal (as opposed to MOD, bulk or binliner) traffic.

[Mattmaz]

Thanks for all of your replies on this subject - they have been very helpful.

 

Kind Regards,

 

Matt

[Fat Controller]

FCA's I believe are only 60mph loaded, they are currently doing a conversion program to FYA to create a higher speed fleet for deep sea intermodal (as opposed to MOD, bulk or binliner) traffic.

I believe a similar situation existed with the FAA?