RMweb Gold beast66606 Posted March 24, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 24, 2011 I've been looking for catch points on sidings just off the WCML lately (when I'm not sleeping ) & I've not seen any. Plenty around - where are you looking ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trog Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 Cv wide to gauge trap point. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natalie Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 Can I muddy the water a little to mention the removable scotch? These were provided in places where a trap should be provided but for reasons of lack of space there was no room. Popular on parts of the Underground system they were taken off the rail by operation of the relevant lever, switch or button and are considered as part of the signalling. Liverpool Street on the Met had one to protect the loco siding leading into the bay platform 3. I'm not sure whether the mainline railways used removable scotches. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold beast66606 Posted March 24, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 24, 2011 I'm not sure whether the mainline railways used removable scotches. Liverpool Lime Street did Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted March 24, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 24, 2011 Yep there is the P-Way method of doing things and the wrong way. For example why don't the S&T put London on the left of their drawings like normal people? Yes, then perhaps we could also arrange for the frame to be numbered in reverse order and the adjacent Block Posts to be the wrong way round geographically on the Signalbox diagram. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold DaveF Posted March 24, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 24, 2011 I'm not sure whether the mainline railways used removable scotches. The Midland Railway used them in some goods yards/sidings. Example - Tuffley Junction to protect the line to Hempsted from goods wagons in the siding at the junction. Still extant in 1920. Midland Record has a short note about them in Number 19, pages 74/5, with a photo of one at Evesham. It is suggested that they were only used to protect non passenger carrying lines. By the way the Midland apparently used the term "safety points" for anything protecting running lines. David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted March 25, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 25, 2011 I'm not sure whether the mainline railways used removable scotches. Derailers were certainly installed until at least the 1970s on the London Midland. There were a couple at Wolverhampton HL, one was in the Middle Siding between Platforms 1 and 2, and IIRC one in the Salop Bay before it was lengthened. Also at various times they were used at Dorridge and Leamington. I remember a 47 running one bogie over the one at Dorridge without derailing, stopping half and half across it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalo Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 I'm not sure whether the mainline railways used removable scotches. Derailers were certainly installed until at least the 1970s on the London Midland... I'm a little confused here, what exactly do you mean by a derailer? It sounds like it has a quite different function from my understanding of a scotch. Nick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted March 25, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 25, 2011 I'm a little confused here, what exactly do you mean by a derailer? It sounds like it has a quite different function from my understanding of a scotch. Nick A derailer is like a scotch, but should do just as it says on the tin and derail a runaway in the same way as a trap. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalo Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 Thanks, I'd not heard of their use in the UK before. Anyone have any pictures? Nick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForestPines Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 Can I muddy the water a little to mention the removable scotch? These were provided in places where a trap should be provided but for reasons of lack of space there was no room. Popular on parts of the Underground system they were taken off the rail by operation of the relevant lever, switch or button and are considered as part of the signalling. Liverpool Street on the Met had one to protect the loco siding leading into the bay platform 3. I'm not sure whether the mainline railways used removable scotches. There's a photo of one in Bob Essery's book Freight Train Operations For The Railway Modeller - I think it's in a GNR yard. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete the Elaner Posted March 29, 2011 Share Posted March 29, 2011 Plenty around - where are you looking ? I did infer that I spent a lot of my travelling time asleep & when I do get a window seat, the 350 or 390 both whiz along too quickly to see a lot in detail. There are a few sidings near Euston which have head shunts instead of catch points. The same is true for a freight holding siding near King's Langley & for the P-Way yard at Watford Jcn. I seem to recall seeing what looks like an old point with half of its rail removed in various locations on the network. I like to model what I see, so am happy to have a short head shunt on my layout. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted March 30, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 30, 2011 By the way the Midland apparently used the term "safety points" for anything protecting running lines. David The term 'safety points' would appear to have been in common usage prior to the 1920s - it appears in the GWR and NER Rule Books and in various other GWR documentation pre-1920(ish). And now a couple of interesting pics, both taken at Sydney Central in 2004. The wide-to-gauge traps show an interesting arrangement for EP operation which I haven't seen elsewhere while the really amusing one is what could only be described as a 'wide-to-gauge derailer' - work out how that works. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwin_m Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 Hmmm, that derailer will either stop the train very suddenly or smash itself into pieces with the train very probably continuing along the track! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted March 30, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 30, 2011 Hmmm, that derailer will either stop the train very suddenly or smash itself into pieces with the train very probably continuing along the track! In reality it's not quite so bad as it first appears as you can see from this picture (from the opposite side) of one in the 'closed' position - although I reckon things might not go entirely as the designer hoped if something does happen to run into it when set like this - Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalo Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 Looks to me like a cunning plan to design a one-shot derailing mechanism. The probability of the derailed vehicle destroying the actuator and its cabling looks a little too high for comfort Nick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigwelsh Posted March 30, 2011 Share Posted March 30, 2011 Looks to me like a cunning plan to design a one-shot derailing mechanism. The probability of the derailed vehicle destroying the actuator and its cabling looks a little too high for comfort Nick I assume those are cheaper to replace than whatever would be protected though? In the first picture it looks like they would avoid hitting the platform face if intentionally derailed in the other direction. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted March 30, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 30, 2011 I assume those are cheaper to replace than whatever would be protected though? In the first picture it looks like they would avoid hitting the platform face if intentionally derailed in the other direction. What they are protecting is a potential collision between passenger trains (one of course being very obviously on a platform line). The signalling on that side of Sydney Central is quite old (early 1950s I would think - possibly a bit earlier - judging by some of the signals) and a number of lines (platform lines and sidings) have these derails - an interesting installation all round as it happened and definitely one to keep the camera busy while waiting for a train. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.