NickL2008 Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 Hi, For one of my current projects, I am detailing a Lima Western (blog entry t ofollow soon), but I need to know is the Lima Western too short/Long? what were the dimensions compared to the real loco? Thanks to anyone who can help NL Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickL2008 Posted July 13, 2011 Author Share Posted July 13, 2011 Thanks PMP, by any chance do you know how short it is? done my research on the model I have and it seems lengthening may be required to help fit the Heljan skirting thats on the way from Howes, Didnt fancy paying the high flebay prices for the Heljan one despite the superior bodyshell NL Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickL2008 Posted July 13, 2011 Author Share Posted July 13, 2011 Another question, is the Gear tower used in the Heljan western the same one as used in the Heljan 47? Howes seem to do a gear tower but it doesnt state which CO-CO diesel its for (assume may be ok to add to my Lima model as I want to re-motor it anyway) : http://www.howesmodels.co.uk/Railways/viewProduct.php?ProdID=329 NL Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
naugytrax Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 Class 47 bogie wheelbase is 7'3" + 7'3". Class 52 bogie wheelbase is 6'1" + 6'1". So they certainly shouldn't use the same gear frame, because if they did at least one of them would have a seriously incorrect wheelbase! The one in the Howes link looks long WB, like a 47. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickL2008 Posted July 14, 2011 Author Share Posted July 14, 2011 Received an email for confirmation of the gear tower, and Howes has confirmed that the gear tower is useable with the Heljan western, although having a look on the Railwaycentre.coms' database in theory the wheelbases are different as you say naugytrax. PMP, I plan to basically change the model completel, basically anything will go, I plan to have the Heljan gear towers and shafts, the as supplied wheels as i dont need to re-guage at all as I model in 00, power potentially by a Modeltorque ATC. The real western measures out at 68ft, so when I get home tonight im going to measure the Lima and see how much is missing off the overall length **Edit** having done the maths that means that the model should be 272mm if thats correct? NL Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BernardTPM Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 68ft is over buffers. The Lima model probably has underscale buffers, but the length over body may be correct even if 'wrong' measured over buffers. Over body (basically measured over the lower end fairings at their centres) it should be 65ft 3in, or 261mm in 4mm scale. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
the penguin of doom Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 Looking forward to this one NL. I like the Westerns, but don't know much about them! Be sure to post a link if you don't continue to update the thread once work begins. Cheers. Sean. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickL2008 Posted July 14, 2011 Author Share Posted July 14, 2011 Hi, Yes assumed thats what the measurement is Bernard, thank you for the additional measurement, that will give me something more accurate to measure the body later, although to me the body looks correct length on first glance apart from the short fairings and the short buffers. I think for me im happy to have it out by the odd mil or two, I think just as long as it looks correct. Sean I shall post in my blog as I havnt posted for a good while now, think ive been lurking too long as not only with this, I have several other things as well, so ill stop being a lurker and finally get some pictures and info up on here NL Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickL2008 Posted July 14, 2011 Author Share Posted July 14, 2011 Just had a search on the interweb and found these interesting comparison shots of the Hornby/Lima/Heljan Western/s: (hopefully the chaps who took the pictures wont mind me linking them here): NL Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigwelsh Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 Might be worth getting a copy of this article to show you how the Brassmasters bits fit: http://www.modelrailwayjournal.com/issue.php?s=153 The Lima Western is a bit out everywhere but it can still look better than an out of the box Western. You'll have to fit new roof panels to blank out the incorrect holes for new off set ones. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickL2008 Posted July 14, 2011 Author Share Posted July 14, 2011 Thanks for the suggestion Craig, I shall have to keep an eye out for when issue 153 is for sale on Ebay. I have the MR article that tackled the Heljan Western. I think the "cap" on the Lima version also requires some slight reprofiling as well. All this research is making me even more eager to start work NL Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Sidelines Posted July 14, 2011 Share Posted July 14, 2011 Just had a search on the interweb and found these interesting comparison shots of the Hornby/Lima/Heljan Western/s: (hopefully the chaps who took the pictures wont mind me linking them here): http://www.flickr.co...eds/4206714355/ http://www.flickr.co...N02/2835900269/ NL No problem linking the picture. I would perhaps add that performance wise the Heljan model beats the Lima model hands down. Visually I think the biggest problem with the Lima model is the way the cab windows are inset with a big step down in front of them. Silk purses and sows ears come to mind. Good luck Ray PS There are more Heljan Western Pictures here: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickL2008 Posted July 14, 2011 Author Share Posted July 14, 2011 Good pictures they are Longsheds, if id of known they were yours I would of asked permission, but im glad youre fine with me linking them up here if they are yours. I had a look on Ebay and no 153 issues of MRJ are on there yet, so may put an ad in the classified section soon. Arriving home I had a large package from Howes models with the sapres fret. I cant beleive how many parts are on there! Fro mwhat you say PMP sounds like work typical t obe carried out on a Lima model, maybe "slight" was an inappropriate word to use?! now im home, I can start measuring the model up and apply the first lot of Heljan parts. The Model measures out at approx. 265mm so im thinking that its not just the buffers that need replacing to get it up to a more scale length, as the Heljan skirting in place would reduce the needed gap for the bogies to swing, so im thinking how much would I need to extend the body by, and in which area if it needs to be extended NL Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigwelsh Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 Good pictures they are Longsheds, if id of known they were yours I would of asked permission, but im glad youre fine with me linking them up here if they are yours. I had a look on Ebay and no 153 issues of MRJ are on there yet, so may put an ad in the classified section soon. Arriving home I had a large package from Howes models with the sapres fret. I cant beleive how many parts are on there! NL I've found a copy in my duplicates pile if you PM me, dirty cover but otherwise ok. Oddly having a brief look he does extend the Lima nose skirts in one picture but the finished article seems to still feature the original short length. MRJ 156 was the one featuring Tim Shackleton looking at the 'new' Heljan Western I think and from what I remember he didn't do anything about the 'brow' on that model. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 I've done the Lima/Brassmasters Western conversion about five times and the result is quite pleasing. The key area is rehaping the cab roof and it really does repay great care. Got this right and the loco's 'face' looks very much like its fullsize counterpart. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickL2008 Posted July 15, 2011 Author Share Posted July 15, 2011 Hi James, What actually needs doing to the front roof? NL Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 It's essentially lengthening the roof; the Brassmasters instructions give advice on this IIRC, and Alan Sibley explains it in the MRJ article. It uses 10 thou plastikard fixed to the 'front' of the roof in a number of laminations - once set it needs to be shaped and blended. New rainstrips complete it. It is quite simple really but you need to take your time with it all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
the penguin of doom Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 Hi Nick. Don't know if this picture is of use, but it's one I took, so feel free to print etc. Cheers. Sean. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BernardTPM Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 Nice photo, Sean. Shows the subtle complex simplicity of the Western cab well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
the penguin of doom Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 Nice photo, Sean. Shows the subtle complex simplicity of the Western cab well. It was one of those "Just point and click" photo's but it does have a certain atmosphere to it. I should have taken it in Black and White..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
the penguin of doom Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 I found a couple more too. Again, feel free to mess with them..... Cheers. Sean. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickL2008 Posted July 15, 2011 Author Share Posted July 15, 2011 Ah thats Great Sean thanks, ill add them to the amasment of photos I have collected. I shall be using the Brassmaster kit, as the Lima glazing is awful and so is the chunky window framing ,so this will all be binned. The underframe skirting, and front skirting will all be replaced with the Heljan mouldings as well. Although I am startying t osee some things will be compromised, my main aim is to get it as close to the realy wester nshape as possible. NL Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
the penguin of doom Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 Ah thats Great Sean thanks, ill add them to the amasment of photos I have collected. I shall be using the Brassmaster kit, as the Lima glazing is awful and so is the chunky window framing ,so this will all be binned. The underframe skirting, and front skirting will all be replaced with the Heljan mouldings as well. Although I am startying t osee some things will be compromised, my main aim is to get it as close to the realy wester nshape as possible. NL Yeah. Thats the spirit. As you'll probably be aware, thats a philosophy I subscribe to too. If it looks right, it is right! Cheers. Sean. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickL2008 Posted July 15, 2011 Author Share Posted July 15, 2011 Oh yes as seen in your threads Sean! Got an Issue of MRJ sorted. Next materials will be the Brassmasters kit, and of course stock up on plastic sheeting of different thicknesses NL Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickL2008 Posted July 15, 2011 Author Share Posted July 15, 2011 Looking at the model and comparing it to me, I the cab sides as well are too short, sorry if this has already been mentioned, but there should be more space between the small plate on the side, and the small cover with the hook on as well, I think the rest of the body is fine apart from the shortened skirting as mentioned earlier in this thread - of which will all be replaced by the Heljan mouldings NL Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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