Guest oldlugger Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Destruction continues! Today I cut off the remaining bogie side frames from the inner chassis keeper plate with a razor saw; this is necessary if you want to add brakes in line with the wheel treads as the replacement brake hangers would not fit easily if the original plastic supports were retained. The new brakes will be made as a sub assembly with their associated rods. The first two photos below show the motor bogie inner frame keeper plate and the outer frames being cut off, and what you end up with once the keeper plate is cleaned up. The third picture shows the trailing bogie inner frame after the plastic supports were removed and cleaned up. It also shows the area where I filed away the plastic (next to the upper lug) to close the gap between the top of the bogie and the lower body; this still needs cleaning up and refining as it was only to get a rough prototypical ride height before full scale reconstruction started. The final photos show the one piece fuel tank area being removed with a razor saw, in readiness for further cutting up and rebuilding as a three dimensional assembly. As can be seen the chassis sub frame still needs cleaning up, before I add a replacement plastic card floor for the new details to be added to and the area where the weights go. Great care needs to be taken when cutting this central part of the chassis off as it is easy to damage either the lower chassis or the fuel tank details in the process. Likewise, great care needs to be taken when cutting off the moulded brake detail, etc, on the outer bogie frames. Take your time as it is the work of an instant to damage neighbouring detail that has to be retained! The plastic Hornby that uses is very brittle and inclined to shatter or crack, although it reproduces the relief in crisper detail than the old Lima plastic bogie frames. Cheers Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Hi Simon, You are brave to be cutting the bogie side frame mouldings off. How are you going to fix them back on? Re. your last picture, if it is of any help: on my 73 conversion, at the stage you have got to, I cut a piece of 40 thou. plasticard to fit exactly within the hole that you now have in the chassis. I cut another piece on sheet (60 thou. I think) to cover the hole and fixed it on from above. That would give you a removeable base on which to mount the chassis detail sub-assembly. On the photos I sent you, you will see a small screw beside the fuel tank which holds the detailed parts to the chassis. Whatever you do, some of the steel weights will have to be omitted from the rebuilt chassis as the 'stack' of steel strips will not be sitting low down in the moulding that you have just cut off any more. I compensated for this reduction in ballast weights on my 73 by making as much/many of the new chassis details in brass and the fuel tanks were filled with a brass ballast weight too. It is important to keep the centre of gravity as low as possible if re-using the Hornby motor bogie. All the best, Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest oldlugger Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Cheers Colin, I'll certainly heed your advice about all of this. Today I got so cold I could only fettle a small amount of the newly cut up bogie frames before my arms seized up! The temperatures here have been at record lows for weeks now with minus 19 degrees C on a number of occasions at night and minus 10 by day, and this is the south of France! All the best Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest oldlugger Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Over the last few days I've been continuing to clean up the bogie frames after cutting off the moulded brakes, etc. This takes ages to do and needs great care. I think I'm nearly there in this respect and so today I started to replace the "missing" details with new scratch built parts. It has to be said that I'm still experimenting here; the sand pipes are one example, as the real ones are quite complex shapes. The photo below shows where I'm at so far with the first bogie frame. The damper support rods have been added (which still need the upper brackets adding) and the first prototype sand pipe has been placed in the sand box just for the photo. To add the support rods (fine brass rod) I drilled the support rod bases from underneath and threaded the brass rod through so that it touches the under side of the upper bogie frame. It was then lightly super glued at each end. The sand pipe is too long at the moment - deliberately so, as I still don't have the Ultrascale P4 wheels yet to gauge the correct length and final shape. As can be seen from the photo, I still need to clean up various bits of the assembly where I've cut, drilled and glued. However, the overall look of the newly profiled bogie frame is looking very promising and light years ahead of the moulded Lima/Hornby offering. Eventually the frames will have the sprung pick ups added plus all the electrical cables and steps and anything else missing that I can attach. Cheers Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest oldlugger Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 A cropped photo showing the new sand pipe a little more clearly. This will be refined and shaped more accurately once I have my wheels. The lower longer end of the pipe will eventually be more banana shaped than it is now with the bend concave rather than convex, as it is now. This close up picture highlights the small areas that still need bits of moulded plastic removing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Hi Simon, Nice work on the bogie detailing. What are you intending to make the brake gear from? I have been told that Hornby 4 VEP bogie moulding are available from Abbigails. They are better representation of the Mk. 6 motor bogie. Although still not with in-line brakes, the side frames are of the correct depth. I suppose it is too late for either of us to stop nowand buy those parts instead! Colin Edit: page 19 of the Hornby 4 VEP topic has a photo of the new Hornby Mk.6 bogie next to a class 73 one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest oldlugger Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Cheers Colin. I had a look at the Hornby 4 VEP bogie and admittedly it looks similar but has several differences to a class 73 bogie, especially around the lower damper area which would be very hard (but not impossible) to modify, not to mention getting rid of the plastic brake detail. The Hornby/Lima 73 bogie frames are a pretty good representation of the original and with the modifications that you and I have started, a very realistic bogie will result. My brakes will be made from plasticard with fine nickel silver pull rods and plasticard adjuster detail. Another thing I want to do is remove the unrealistic daylight between the lower chassis and the top of the bogie frames on the unpowered trailing bogie. I'm not sure if this area would be occupied by the top of the traction motors. If I'd used a Bachmann chassis this wouldn't be an issue of course, but the Hornby model runs perfectly smoothly and slowly. Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Hi Simon, Your observations have inspired me to continue with the work in the bogie frames! The daylight between the trailing pick-up bogie(in the model sense) and the body is not too hard to correct. As far as I can remember, you can just gently counter-sink the hole into which the pivot of the bogie locates. By working carefully, the body can be dropped downwards. All of this can only be done once you have the P4 wheels. Part of the 'daylight' problem will be cured when you add all the parts that should be on the chassis immediately in front of the bogies. There is a step on each corner of the underframe, in line with the steps on the motor bogies - they are missing on the Hornby model, plus all the pipework, guard irons and brake gear. The Hornby mechanism of my class 73 runs very well too, so there is a sound basis for conversion. Colin Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest oldlugger Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Hello Colin, Thanks for your post. I forgot to answer one of your questions above about attaching the bogie frames to the inner bogies. I think this will be the usual plasticard spacers method and super glue with small brass rod for strengtheners. The hard part will be accurately lining up the wheel centres with the axle bosses on the outside frames. Cheers Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold griffgriff Posted February 16, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 16, 2012 I guess the best way of lining everything up is by using the axle boxes as a datum - perhaps drilling out through the rear and adding a strengthening rod that would line up with a hole in the inner frame? BTW looking forward to the re-wheel... The Hornby wheels are causing all kinds of trouble on my track... not sure why? I haven't seen anyone take one of those power bogies apart yet. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest oldlugger Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Cheers griffgriff for your suggestion I'll look into that. The probable reason why the Hornby wheels are causing problems is because of their deep flanges; these certainly rub over the tops of C and L bullhead chairs and will raise the wheel treads ever so slightly off the running rail surface and thus resulting in stalling. I think Andy Y said that they can also run badly over Peco code 75 track. Your best bet is to get some Ultrascale OO replacements. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold griffgriff Posted February 16, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 16, 2012 Cheers griffgriff for your suggestion I'll look into that. The probable reason why the Hornby wheels are causing problems is because of their deep flanges; these certainly rub over the tops of C and L bullhead chairs and will raise the wheel treads ever so slightly off the running rail surface and thus resulting in stalling. I think Andy Y said that they can also run badly over Peco code 75 track. Your best bet is to get some Ultrascale OO replacements. That's what it is alright... my question was more of a rhetorical muse as some of my steamrollers run smoothly... Heljan locos are fine for example ... why did Hornby go for such deep treads in this day in age? I didn't realise that Ultrascale did replacements for their power bogie... I shall go and have a look. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest oldlugger Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 They certainly do griffgriff, thanks to Colin Parks I think. At the time he converted his Hornby class 73 Ultrascale didn't do near scale wheels for this loco (apart from the underscale ones they do for the Lima example) but I think he persuaded them to do a version for the Hornby model. It's something like that and I'm sure Colin will correct me later! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest oldlugger Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Over lunch I have continued to add the damper support rods; the first photo shows the method I use with fine brass rod placed through pre-drilled holes in the plastic support rod bases. The near exact length of rod is the determined using a pencil mark at the bottom of the support rod base and then the rod is cut around half a milimetre in, to compensate for the slightly proud pencil mark. The rod is then correctly aligned and lightly super glued in place at either end. The second photo shows all four bogie frames complete with the new support rods. The camera makes some of the rods look a wee bit out of alignment but in reality they are not. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 They certainly do griffgriff, thanks to Colin Parks I think. At the time he converted his Hornby class 73 Ultrascale didn't do near scale wheels for this loco (apart from the underscale ones they do for the Lima example) but I think he persuaded them to do a version for the Hornby model. It's something like that and I'm sure Colin will correct me later! Hi Simon, Yes, my only claim to fame is that the wheels in the picture on the Ultrascale website of class 73 replacement set for the Hornby version are the very same wheels that are fitted to my class 73! I can remember quite a long conversation with the proprietor of Ultrascale back in 2006. He only supplied direct replacement wheels for the 73 - Lima or Hornby at that time, i.e. 11.5mm dia. (The real thing has 40" dia. wheels.) After some lengthy discussion he realised that the correct gear wheel was already tooled up and wheels of near-scale diameter (13mm) were also in his range - albeit for another type of loco. So, it was just a case of combining the two components. We concluded that a scale 1" under size wheel was acceptable, as the height difference is a scale half inch too low. Class 73's probably ran with 39" diameter wheels when the treads were really worn and in need of renewal. I will be interested to see if your P4 wheels fit without the need to shave plastic away from the motor bogie moulding to allow free movement of the flanges of the wheels. In 00 this has to be done, taking about 15 mins., in P4, if you are lucky the wheels will be just right. I would agree that the Hornby wheels are only compatible with code 100 track. On my layout, straight out of the box, the 73 just banged up and down over the SMP bullhead track. Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest oldlugger Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Two views taken this evening showing a mock up with the bogie frames under the body to give an idea of what the modifications will eventually look like. I've nearly finished making the sand pipes and two of these are temporarily attached to one bogie frame. The subtle class 73 sand pipe shape has nearly been achieved today; with a bit more tweaking I'll get it right tomorrow. I'm very pleased with the new look of the frames; the comparison with the originals is striking, most noticeable when viewing the frames from the front of the loco down the sides. To my eyes this is the real Achillies heel of the Lima/Hornby 73, apart from the flat fuel tank area. Although time consuming and difficult, cutting away the moulded brakes, etc, is well worth the hassle. I've always admired the class 73 ED from the days when I used to see them operating around Bournemouth; I really like their boxy and compact shape. It's a functional, modest and handsome design although many I'm sure would disagree with me here. I particularly like the loco in SR green or corporate blue, but I think some of the later liveries look good too, especially the two tone grey livery. I'm not keen on the newest liveries which spoil the clean lines of the original. I hope my model will look equally handsome and modest. It will be the star attraction of SMH at some stage along with the High Level Kits big Barclay 0-6-0 tank loco. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest oldlugger Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Hi Simon, Yes, my only claim to fame is that the wheels in the picture on the Ultrascale website of class 73 replacement set for the Hornby version are the very same wheels that are fitted to my class 73! I can remember quite a long conversation with the proprietor of Ultrascale back in 2006. He only supplied direct replacement wheels for the 73 - Lima or Hornby at that time, i.e. 11.5mm dia. (The real thing has 40" dia. wheels.) After some lengthy discussion he realised that the correct gear wheel was already tooled up and wheels of near-scale diameter (13mm) were also in his range - albeit for another type of loco. So, it was just a case of combining the two components. We concluded that a scale 1" under size wheel was acceptable, as the height difference is a scale half inch too low. Class 73's probably ran with 39" diameter wheels when the treads were really worn and in need of renewal. I will be interested to see if your P4 wheels fit without the need to shave plastic away from the motor bogie moulding to allow free movement of the flanges of the wheels. In 00 this has to be done, taking about 15 mins., in P4, if you are lucky the wheels will be just right. I would agree that the Hornby wheels are only compatible with code 100 track. On my layout, straight out of the box, the 73 just banged up and down over the SMP bullhead track. Colin Thanks for clarifying that Colin; I knew you were involved somewhere in the equation! As to having to shave any plastic off the motor bogie frame or the trailing bogie frame, this won't be necessary as the bulk of the plastic supports have been removed in readiness for the larger diameter wheels, plus to allow the fitting of new brake hangers. Any offending plastic thingies will simply be cut off completely as they are superfluous to the project! All the best Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Hi Simon, I am posting a picture of the area of the Hornby motor bogie which has to be carved away, at least with the 00 Ultrascale wheelsets anyway. As I said, with P4 flanges, you might avoid this rather crude operation. Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest oldlugger Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Thanks for the heads up Colin; now I see what you mean! All the best Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold griffgriff Posted February 19, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 19, 2012 Thanks for the helpful insight over the last few posts... will be contacting a couple of suppliers this week to get some supplies. I've certainly been inspired to move a couple of ED a little further through the works. Cheers Griff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest oldlugger Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 Today I've finished all the sand pipes and started to add the cable runs on the bogies. A very fiddly process as I had to make up tiny L shaped flat brass cable brackets to support the aforementioned; photos soon. So far this part of the conversion is looking very promising. Cheers Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest oldlugger Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 The first piece of bogie cable work; the photo doesn't show it very well because of the camera flash reflecting on the as yet unpainted bare wire. The two small (white plastic) extensions under the axle box are found on the prototype but not on the Hornby/Lima model, and these are where this run of cables goes. They are still not quite the right shape or positioned precisely and I will refine them in due course; it's just easier to shape these tiny parts once properly glued in place. The L shaped cable brackets are not glued in place yet and still need to be adjusted. There's one extra cable fastener that holds the two cables together and this is found between the sand box and the axle box. This will be added soon. Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest oldlugger Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 Progress continues very slowly - due to business commitments. I will post a photo or two soon just to show that I haven't forgotten you! One bogie frame is now nearing completion... Cheers Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Parkinson Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 All this talk of ED's reminds me of my time as a secondman in the late 80's. Personally compared with a Crompton I didn't like ED's much, bit too light and bouncy for my liking. Anyway we used to have an afternoon turn working a freight from Hoo Jcn to Willesden Yard, normally it was diagrammed for a 33 but one particular day an ED was used, discussion then took place with my driver as to whether we'd make it up through Kensington Olympia which was then not electrified. Seniority over youthful doubt made the decision and off we set all well and good whilst on the juice, but after Factory Junction the diesel power of the ED showed its drawbacks and the signalman at North Pole Junction met us with various handsignals and gestures as if we were emerging from the Bermuda Triangle given the amount of time we'd spent in section!! Off this topic I know but thought it might be amusing. Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest oldlugger Posted February 24, 2012 Share Posted February 24, 2012 All this talk of ED's reminds me of my time as a secondman in the late 80's. Personally compared with a Crompton I didn't like ED's much, bit too light and bouncy for my liking. Anyway we used to have an afternoon turn working a freight from Hoo Jcn to Willesden Yard, normally it was diagrammed for a 33 but one particular day an ED was used, discussion then took place with my driver as to whether we'd make it up through Kensington Olympia which was then not electrified. Seniority over youthful doubt made the decision and off we set all well and good whilst on the juice, but after Factory Junction the diesel power of the ED showed its drawbacks and the signalman at North Pole Junction met us with various handsignals and gestures as if we were emerging from the Bermuda Triangle given the amount of time we'd spent in section!! Off this topic I know but thought it might be amusing. Andy Thanks for posting this interesting account Andy! Cheers Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.