Guest oldlugger Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Work commenced at lunchtime today on the secondhand Hornby class 73 that I bought from our very own Andy York recently! Rather than give a very detailed report of progress I intend to use this post more as a repository of progress photos with brief descriptions of what I've done, in case anyone else might be interested in the conversion. It will of course end up as a P4 loco and the wheels are on order from Ultrascale. The model still has it's underscale Hornby wheels in place. I will extensively modify the fuel tank area like several others have done (Colin Parks and Adam, for example) and upgrade the body. I will also modify the bogies quite a bit with the addition of working third rail pick ups, which I've already started making. I also intend to add internal engine room detail. Colin kindly gave me various bits and bobs to add to the loco, mostly white metal components and etched grills, etc. I want to make it as convincing as I can as it will become one of the centre pieces on SMH. On test it ran smoothly over a section of test C and L OO gauge bullhead rail but the flanges of the Hornby wheels did rub over the tops of the chairs. Obviously once converted to P4 this issue will disappear. I will keep the loco in its current green livery which I really like; however I do have a spare Lima overall BR blue body that I could use as well. I will weather the loco to a degree. The first photo shows the virgin model straight out of the box. The second shows the model after I had closed the gap between the bottom of the body and the top of the bogies to a more prototypical ride height (I may lower it some more). Curiously, the Hornby model is better in this respect than the former Lima class 73, with a virtually scale gap on the motor bogie end, leaving just the trailing bogie to sort out (via careful filing of the top of the internal bogie frame). I have also removed the tension lock couplings and fiddled around with the buffers and buffing plate. The buffers are possibly a tad underscale and so I will add some metal replacements. More anon... Cheers Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest oldlugger Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 A view of some of the components I have for the loco (most from Colin) including one and a half third rail pick ups under construction (in the top right hand corner of the photo). One of these has already been wired ready to be connected to the motor. I have made these as close to the prototype that I can from photos of the real thing. They will be very lightly sprung and will have a set degree of downward movement to drop off the third rail ramps but not touch the running rails. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest oldlugger Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 A view showing the trailing bogie side frames after I'd removed the cosmetic plastic pick ups; the remains of which can be seen above the frames. Where I've cut them off still needs cleaning up. I have also started to remove the moulded sand pipes to replace them with ones made of fine brass wire which will go the whole length from the sand box to the wheel. Not easy! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Hi Simon, So you've bitten the bullet then! Are you intending to alter the brake gear on the 73? I have chopped mine off for the 4 CIG, but its hard to work with the polythene type plastic I warn you. Looking forward to seeing this loco being transformed in your hands. Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest oldlugger Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Good question Colin; I am thinking about it as you know. The postion of the brake gear - proud of even P4 wheel treads - affects the whole profile of the bogie frames. The moulded brake rodding sits too far forward thus affecting the position of the sand pipes which as you know have to flow over the top of the rods and in towards the wheels. If all the brake gear was removed and replaced with a scratch built assembly with fine rods, the look of the bogies would be transformed. The jury is out on that one for now whilst I concentrate on the working pick ups which will take a lot of careful setting up. Cheers Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold griffgriff Posted February 9, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 9, 2012 This will be interesting, been looking forward to this starting... I have in 4 in various stages on undress... I must get a move on a do something to them. Incidentally what is the origin of the cast tanks in your picture? I agree with Colin about the plastic... I think that's the main reason why they are all in bits Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest oldlugger Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Hello griffgriff, Many thanks for your comments. It is a strange type of plastic and easily damaged as most will have found out if mods have been attempted in this part of the loco. I certainly found this when removing the sand pipes. The cast tanks are from Southern Pride for one of their EMUs, kindly given to me by Colin Parks who was going to use them for one of his excellent scratch built units, I believe. I'm not sure if they can be used on the 73 or not yet. All the best Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold griffgriff Posted February 9, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 9, 2012 I did wonder... but they do look nice. I've done one 73 under frame - usual chop up and box type of thing - and quite nice it looks too... but alas the mechanism is fitted with a ModelTorque motor and when mated with nickel silver wheels it wont pull the skin off a rice pudding (if I weight it the motor rather ironically fails to register much torque ). It's waiting for a bit of triple B P (Bachmann Bo Bo Power) B) Good luck with the build. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
meld Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Hi Simon, Just dug these off the small Digi I take to work ... hope they are of some help .. ( PLEASE NOTE :- All the following pictures were taken on Operational Railway Infrastructure, I had a reason to be there and have the FULL PPE and PTS Documents that allowed me to be there to carry out my Duties ) First off, 73107, which retains the D&M Vacuum Brake Exhausters and U pipe on the Buffer beams on the secondmans side .... Seen here is the opposite end coupled to 73201, note how the long bogie top foot board is split with a short section actually located on the chassis ... A better shot of 73201's bogie to show what I mean about the foot board .. More U/F shots to follow HTH Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
meld Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Hi Simon. These following Shots are all from 73201, which like most of the 73's left running on the main line are now AB only, and therefore have had the D&M exhausters removed ... ( PLEASE NOTE :- All the pictures were taken on Operational Railway Infrastructure, I had a reason to be there and have the FULL PPE and PTS Documents that allowed me to be there to carry out my Duties ) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
meld Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Hi Simon, More 73201 .... The last couple are views that show what is behind the pair of Exhuasters and a better view of the twin fuel tanks, Main air resevior inbetween them and the cross fuel feed pipe at the bottom of the tanks. Hope these are of some help to you. Mike. ( PLEASE NOTE :- All the pictures were taken on Operational Railway Infrastructure, I had a reason to be there and have the FULL PPE and PTS Documents that allowed me to be there to carry out my Duties. please don't trespass on the railway ) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete_mcfarlane Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Look forward to seeing this. I've said this before, but I'm surprised that none of the small suppliers have produced a set of replacement underframe components for this model. Enough of us have done this conversion, so there must be a market. One word of caution - those photos people have posted are very nice, but they are for the 73/1 variant, and your model is a 73/0 which has some differences in the underframe equipment and bogies. I did a 73/0 a year or so back and it was quite a lot of work. Photos of the result are here: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/blog/285/entry-6480-some-better-730-photos/. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
meld Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Hi Simon, Pete's comments are very true, Lima initially issued the 73 as a 73/1 and the chassis molding matches this prototype. Here are some 73/0 pictures that I have ... not many or as detailed but should show some of the detailing differences. The Fuel tank filler is the most obvious as well as the oil sump for the exhauster pumps as well ... 73002 seems to be missing the Exhausters here on the Forest of Dean railway.. Both sides of 73005 on the K&WVR... And finally 73006 also at the K&WVR Which BR Blue body do you have Simon, A 73/0 or a 73/1?? as which body you are going to use will obviously dictate which direction you go with the chassis detailing work ... HTH Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Hi Simon, Having seen all the photos on this topic, I'm sure that those Southern Pride components I sent to you are not correct for a 73. Oh how I wish such good quality photos had been to hand when I did my 73 chassis conversion - the power of RMweb! As Pete Mcfarlane says, surely a small manufacturer could make a kit of parts for the Hornby 73 chassis. There are enough detailing parts for the body and the even bogie steps, but the chassis area has been over-looked. It's good old scratch building and adaption for you then. Don't be misled by the moulded-on chassis detail. Some parts represented on what can only be described as a facade, are actually stuated in the centre of the underframe. This would lead you to think, for example, that there is something attached to the air reservoir on the l/h side, whereas on the real thing there is nothing there! Good luck and think twice and cut once! Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest oldlugger Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Some progress today on the bogie frames. I've decided to go the whole hog and remove all the moulded brake detail and damper support rods to be replaced with scratchbuilt in line brake gear, pull rods and new damper rods. As Colin mentioned earlier, removing these details is far from easy and great care is needed when using a scalpel. The photo shows how far I've got on the first side frame, which is still not finished and needs plenty of cleaning up. As I will be adding brake hangers in line with the P4 wheel treads I found that the Hornby plastic rear supports between the internal wheel frames and the outer frames needed removing completely. By doing this it is much easier to work on the detailed outer frames without damage. As I will now have brake rods in the correct position the sand pipes will look right and not have a strange bulge around the area where the former moulded rods were. You can see the remains of the last brake hanger and shoe on the left waiting to be removed. It is a very slow procedure! Cheers Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest oldlugger Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Many thanks Mike for posting the incredibly detailed photos above! They are stunning and I couldn't ask for more when it comes to detailing the underframe area. I think I will opt for the green body rather than the blue one (a 73/1) so it will be a 73/0 I think... or I hope! What I really want is a generally convincing model with better bogies and underframe detail. If I get the odd detail wrong for which ever class 73 "I choose" this won't bother me too much. I can guarantee that the eventual loco will look the business when finished. All the best Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest oldlugger Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Look forward to seeing this. I've said this before, but I'm surprised that none of the small suppliers have produced a set of replacement underframe components for this model. Enough of us have done this conversion, so there must be a market. One word of caution - those photos people have posted are very nice, but they are for the 73/1 variant, and your model is a 73/0 which has some differences in the underframe equipment and bogies. I did a 73/0 a year or so back and it was quite a lot of work. Photos of the result are here: http://www.rmweb.co....ter-730-photos/. Many thanks Pete for the link to your excellent model. I've looked at this a number of times before for inspiration! Cheers Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Richard_A Posted February 10, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 10, 2012 are those body grills shawplan or a1 models ones? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest oldlugger Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Hi Simon, Having seen all the photos on this topic, I'm sure that those Southern Pride components I sent to you are not correct for a 73. Oh how I wish such good quality photos had been to hand when I did my 73 chassis conversion - the power of RMweb! As Pete Mcfarlane says, surely a small manufacturer could make a kit of parts for the Hornby 73 chassis. There are enough detailing parts for the body and the even bogie steps, but the chassis area has been over-looked. It's good old scratch building and adaption for you then. Don't be misled by the moulded-on chassis detail. Some parts represented on what can only be described as a facade, are actually stuated in the centre of the underframe. This would lead you to think, for example, that there is something attached to the air reservoir on the l/h side, whereas on the real thing there is nothing there! Good luck and think twice and cut once! Colin Thanks for your comments Colin. I usually cut once and then think twice about why I just cut off a key object unnecessarily and then the swearing starts in no uncertain terms! All the best Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin parks Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Some progress today on the bogie frames. I've decided to go the whole hog and remove all the moulded brake detail and damper support rods to be replaced with scratchbuilt in line brake gear, pull rods and new damper rods. As Colin mentioned earlier, removing these details is far from easy and great care is needed when using a scalpel. The photo shows how far I've got on the first side frame, which is still not finished and needs plenty of cleaning up. As I will be adding brake hangers in line with the P4 wheel treads I found that the Hornby plastic rear supports between the internal wheel frames and the outer frames needed removing completely. By doing this it is much easier to work on the detailed outer frames without damage. As I will now have brake rods in the correct position the sand pipes will look right and not have a strange bulge around the area where the former moulded rods were. You can see the remains of the last brake hanger and shoe on the left waiting to be removed. It is a very slow procedure! Cheers Simon Hi Simon, You are doing the support rods too?! From my experience with the plastic that these bogie side frames are made of. it is best to 'pin' the new details onto/into them. Superglue, not your favourite adhesive I know, is best for this procedure. Colin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
meld Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 are those body grills shawplan or a1 models ones? They Appear to be A1 parts. Brian has not got down to the 73 body grills yet on the extremely long list of things still to do, and his roof grill and fan is a three part brass item. Me? I am more than happy with the Lima molding for all the body side grills, as they are very crisp and have the detail of the 'behind the grill stuff' too. I have seen too many ED's that you can look straight through, both across and down - and that is just plain wrong . Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest oldlugger Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 are those body grills shawplan or a1 models ones? Hello rka, Mike is right they are A1 body grills. I might not use them as the existing detail is pretty good, as Mike says, but I will replace the roof fan and grill. Cheers Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold griffgriff Posted February 11, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 11, 2012 I agree with keeping the Lima plastic grills... 1. they look good and 2. I wouldn't want to weaken the body too much by cutting big holes into them... I know many are quite happy to do so but it's not for me Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest oldlugger Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 I agree with keeping the Lima plastic grills... 1. they look good and 2. I wouldn't want to weaken the body too much by cutting big holes into them... I know many are quite happy to do so but it's not for me I couldn't agree more griffgriff. The Lima/Hornby 73 body is, in my opinion, a very fine moulding that seems to capture the look of these popular locos perfectly. I think I will just remove the roof fan grill. What a shame that the chassis is so flat by comparison. I'm looking forward to seeing the newly profiled bogies under the loco once I've upgraded them; I think the difference will be huge with in line brakes, near scale P4 wheels, sand pipes, proper brake rods, working third rail pick ups, plus other missing details. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickL2008 Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Hi - soundsl ike an interesting project, Have couple of 73s that im doing at the moment so will follow this thread with interest NL Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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