Steve Taylor Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 This is a little esoteric but if anyone has any thoughts I would be interested since I'm at the stage of planning my layout in templot. I'm aware that the NER could either use a special rail section more akin to an L-section with railhead or as is likely in the case of my prototype ordinary 30' (95lb ?)rail in bridge chairs on waybeams, but how were these lengths fitted into the approach track? Were the rails rolled to place the joints at the end of the drops or carried onto the drops and jointed at normal 30' panel spacings and chaired accordingly? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 The drops at Goathland use recovered lengths of the larger section rail, pics enclosed. I believe the drops at Egton were of the type you describe using standard rail on timbers. As far as I can tell looking at old photographs etc rails are cut off at the start of the drops and a joint made with a 2 bolt fishplate. Any joints in rail required on the drops themselves are then made over the buttresses that separate the cells. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Taylor Posted March 3, 2012 Author Share Posted March 3, 2012 Thanks for the info and the pics. That clears things up to a believable level. From some of the few prorotype views of the tops of cells I was reaching a similar conclusion regarding a joint at the start and a 2-bolt fishplate would explain why (even allowing for perspective foreshortening) some joints appeared to have a very sharp change of gradient. Now Egton Bridge I haven't visited in a long while. I wonder what the most complete set of cells remaining is? As a kid I remember the largely intact ones at Keswick and the oddities at Ripon with hoppers, but for something once so common there seems little record. Cheers Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 Thanks for the info and the pics. That clears things up to a believable level. From some of the few prorotype views of the tops of cells I was reaching a similar conclusion regarding a joint at the start and a 2-bolt fishplate would explain why (even allowing for perspective foreshortening) some joints appeared to have a very sharp change of gradient. Now Egton Bridge I haven't visited in a long while. I wonder what the most complete set of cells remaining is? As a kid I remember the largely intact ones at Keswick and the oddities at Ripon with hoppers, but for something once so common there seems little record. Cheers Steve The most complete set of cells is Goathland! But yes, the cells at Egton do survive quite well although apparently some of the timber isn't original being placed by a local builder to aid with the demolition of the goods platform and never removed. The double track drops at Pickering were intact until 2 years ago when they were demolished to make way for a supermarket! Thinking about it the drops at Lealholm and possibly Danby survived quite well as they were used quite late, allegedly as recently as the early 80. Kettleness also survive fairly well, but I think that's about it. Although there are a set next to the ECML north of Morpeth that are still in use for a coal merchant with a pair of 21ton hoppers for the discharge. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wizard of the Moor Posted March 3, 2012 Share Posted March 3, 2012 The basic structure of the cells at Strensall is still intact, but forms part of a builders yard. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Taylor Posted March 8, 2012 Author Share Posted March 8, 2012 Hmmm, I shall have to plot a convenient north yorkshire "works excursion". Got any pics of Kettleness? Its the arrangement of stuff generally stripped off, timber and metal work that I'm principally interested in if anyone knows of any sets left besides those at Goathland and Beamish. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Worsdell forever Posted March 8, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 8, 2012 the cells at Egton do survive quite well although apparently some of the timber isn't original being placed by a local builder to aid with the demolition of the goods platform and never removed. That was my Dad! but all he did was lay some scaffolding planks on the beams - yes, they were beams with ordinary rail on them - to dump some spoil while he was removing the platform to make way for the new school playing field that he and some other school parents were making. Most of the platform edge stones from there are now in the C of E church yard wall in Ugthorpe. Not much left of the coal cells at Kettlness, still interesting too look round though. Kettleness coal cells 1. Kettleness coal cells 2. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Taylor Posted March 8, 2012 Author Share Posted March 8, 2012 Right I'll reprogramme the satan-nav for Egton Bridge and the Esk Valley. I might have some stuff already as I did my a-level art project on the railway architecture in the area (got some nice prints of original watercolour on linen plans of some Prosser buildings from Hudson House for that one too.) Cheers for pointing out the Kettleness pics Paul, the steps are a nice detail, like those at Glaisdale (?). Cheers all Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Glaisdale has a nice set of steps up, and the drops have recently been cleared of trees etc as part of bridge works and the Glaisdale Station museum project. Kettleness aren't really a good example of NER coal drops being quite unique in having what is best described as a run-round built into them with a set of points at the top, I have only ever seen one image of the drops at Kettleness and I think it is on an old 1950s home movie. Martin Bairstows books Railways around Whitby volumes 1 & 2 are worth a look as they contain photos I've not seen before. Danby and Lealholm are also worth a look drops wise, and the goods shed at Lealholm is still standing, although gutted inside. If you are in the area and fancy coming up to Goathland let me know, and I'll show you some of the stuff the public don't get to see. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddieB Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 I remember that there was article in Model Railways (around 1972 from guesswork), entitled "Coal staithes at Alnwick". I think it was one of those photographic "inspiration" type pieces. My copy is still around somewhere (but not to hand), so I can't give much more than that, but if interested I'll try to dig it out when time permits. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Taylor Posted March 8, 2012 Author Share Posted March 8, 2012 Boris, shall i make the brainstormer of a deduction that you are involved with the NYMR..... (steady its Thursday and its been a long week) and yes please I'd definitely like to take you up on that one and at the same time twist Craig Donald's arm to take a look at Goathlands locking bar arrangements and Levisham's NER ground signals. If you some time fancy a looksee at Swithland sidings once we are commisioned I'm sure some reciprocation could be arranged. I shall have a look later for the Bairstow book though i think i may only have vol 1. On a slightly more general goods yard theme was it Danby or Lealholm that had a number of plain roads behind the goods shed? Eddie, yes please if and when you come accross that article I'd be very interested to see it, since given that like many drops all that remains at Broomielaw is the stonework and ramp so any extra info on the details and operation would be very welcome. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
North Eastern Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Please find attached some photo's of the former coal yard at Morpeth, Northumberland. The lovely coal yard office is now long gone in anticipation of long delayed road widening. The coal yard which has previous being used as a builders yard and stone masons yard is also due to be filled in as part of the road widening. You can clearly see where the stone walls of the coal cells were. All the buildings in the coal yard have now gone along with the provender store above (Which had been used by BR as a PW store room in its later life). The wooden building to the right was a local milkman's milk store, this too has been demolished and the land lies derelict. I do have some photo's of the rails still in situ but can't find them at present. Regards Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold colin penfold Posted March 8, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 8, 2012 Not that I would want to dissuade anybody from visiting the esk valley as it's a lovely place to visit (try the duke of welllington at Danby!) Whilst you are planning your trip you can at least have these pics I took at glaisdale Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Taylor Posted March 8, 2012 Author Share Posted March 8, 2012 Cheers Colin and Chris for those. Intriguing that the partition walls didn't appear to be particularly well keyed into the back walls. Tis a shame that the Morpeth coal office went - that would have made a lovely garden man-shed: I know someone who relocated a Midland stone weigh office to his back garden as a retreat/workshop - cracking. Some intriguing detail in there - anyone got a track diagram out of interest? Something that has always intrigued me about those cells at Glaisdale is how it was worked being set right along side the road which is sloping especially with the timber construction in the end cell. Wasn't there a layout based upon Glaisdale at one point? Ps cheers for the lunch retreat reccomendation - we go through that part of the world a couple of times a year researching green lanes and I can heartily recommend the bakery in Danby too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Worsdell forever Posted March 8, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 8, 2012 Wasn't there a layout based upon Glaisdale at one point? Yes, Paul Cope's 'Fryupdale' complete with sheep... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Taylor Posted March 8, 2012 Author Share Posted March 8, 2012 Yes, Paul Cope's 'Fryupdale' complete with sheep... aah, is it still about? I recall speaking to someone a few years back about the research for it and a debate about signals out on the viaduct Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Worsdell forever Posted March 8, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 8, 2012 Don't know, last saw it about 15 years ago. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold DaveF Posted March 8, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 8, 2012 Having looked at Chris's Morpeth photos I remembered I had a set I took in the 80s when I made a model of Morpeth in n gauge in my house, amongst them was the one below, but sadly the rails had been removed. Then I remembered that some time ago I put a couple of my Hexham photos in the gallery here showing the coal staithes before the track was lifted. Hope they are some use. There are also some of Hexham in Ernie Brack's Eastern and Northeastern archive, here: http://www.flickr.co...57626511380460/ David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Natalie Graham Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 The girder rails where the top web was shaped to form the running rail were 12' long to match the spacings of the cells and were joined with fishplates. I would expect the track leading to the depots would be fishplated to the end girder rail at the centre of the first pillar. It would seem odd if different pattern or length girders were produced just for the end span. Where the rails over the depot were carried over timber waybeams then, presumably, the timber beams were 12' long and then the rails just fixed onto them with the joints as they came. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 Boris, shall i make the brainstormer of a deduction that you are involved with the NYMR..... (steady its Thursday and its been a long week) and yes please I'd definitely like to take you up on that one and at the same time twist Craig Donald's arm to take a look at Goathlands locking bar arrangements and Levisham's NER ground signals. If you some time fancy a looksee at Swithland sidings once we are commisioned I'm sure some reciprocation could be arranged. I shall have a look later for the Bairstow book though i think i may only have vol 1. On a slightly more general goods yard theme was it Danby or Lealholm that had a number of plain roads behind the goods shed? Eddie, yes please if and when you come accross that article I'd be very interested to see it, since given that like many drops all that remains at Broomielaw is the stonework and ramp so any extra info on the details and operation would be very welcome. Off the top of my head I think it was Lealholm, being in itself a relatively large station. You needn't worry about bugging Craig (he's a busy chap at the moment), I'll take you round the station and we can do the lockbars at the same time, I'll sort Levisham for you as well. Might just take you up on that Swithland offer too. You never know, that gantry from Falsgrave might have appeared at Grosmont by then. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Taylor Posted March 8, 2012 Author Share Posted March 8, 2012 My thanks to all. Nathalie, you have a point regarding the end joints when using girder rail, which some pictures I've come across would seem to back up and thanks for the info on timber dimensions. I'm going to assume that the cross-section would match that given for waybeams in NERA's reproduction of the NER standards book. Dave, thanks for those. Cross referencing between yours and Ernie's pics leads me to agree with Nathalie that joints would fall where rail length dictated and was not planned to coincide with the piers (Hexham = 45' rail approx). Your pics are a little clearer and appear to show the way beams on packing pieces on top of the piers. Also apparent is the odd spacing of the chairs - perhaps the 45' lengths replaced older 30' rail? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
North Eastern Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Sorry I can't up load the photo's I wanted to of Morpeth's coal cells. I've stupidly got them stored as bitmap files not jpeg's. Whilst looking for the photo's I come across these two photo's of another set of coal cells in front of Morpeth's signal box. I'm not sure when they became out of use or if they were still used as well as they main coal cells. Regards Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Taylor Posted March 10, 2012 Author Share Posted March 10, 2012 oooh keep 'em coming. Loads of detail in those and not just for the drops. (and double ta for nice big pics that can be zoomed into). An odd set, especially with that ramp. I bet that was a delight for the signalman when it was worked and truly a joy for the s&t designer when it came to the box's lead off. Did the box have "problems" it appears fairly well strapped together with what appears to be lengths of old rail up the front (liking the "arch" at landing level) and the colour shot shows subsidence at the north end. In that last shot it appears that the waybeams were notched into the pad timbers on top of the piers and held to guage by tie-rods above those. It shows how safety cares have changed too - "we need a new relay room, where can we put it. Well the drops aren't used much, cut the siding short and alter the far end ramp and chuck on a new standard stop block, it'll be fine." They were obviously confident that nothing would run through the blocks that far or by that time the drops were signed out. Cheers again Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkC Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 I'm away at sea at present, so can't confirm in person, but iirc the drops at Thorpe Thewles are still extant. http://www.thorpe-thewles.org.uk/thorpe%20thewles%20station.htm It hasn't made it into the wonderful disused-stations.org.uk site yet though... There's a model of this station on the exhibition circuit http://www.durhammodellers.com/thorpe/index.htm Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddieB Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 Eddie, yes please if and when you come accross that article I'd be very interested to see it, since given that like many drops all that remains at Broomielaw is the stonework and ramp so any extra info on the details and operation would be very welcome. It's not among the copies immediately to hand, so may be a while. Just found this: http://forums.auran.com/trainz/showthread.php?72389-UK-Content-what-do-we-need/page6 - I now know which issue I'm looking for. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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