Butchering K’s Stroudley 4 Wheelers

[burgundy]

Having been collecting Brighton models for rather a long time, I have been the proud owner of an odd selection of the 4 wheel coaches that K’s were selling when Harold McMillan was Prime Minister and TV was in black and white. The prototypes are the Stroudley coaches that found their way to the Isle of Wight and collected electric lighting and battery boxes in the process. The kits consist of robust whitemetal castings for sides, including the running gear, ends, roof, battery boxes and some brass screw-in buffers. As designed, axles are intended to run in plain whitemetal bearings in the side/running gear castings – which depends on the (ill advised) assumption that the sides will be exactly symmetrical, so that the axles will be perpendicular to them.

 

Over the years, I have had a number of goes at producing a decent vehicle out of these kits, including

• throwing away the roof to reduce the weight and replacing it with plastic,
  
• dumping the battery boxes (as being too “modern imageâ€),
  
• putting w-irons with pinpoint bearings inside the original axleboxes to make them rather more free rolling,
  
• “opening†one or two windows and
  
• adding sprung buffers.
  

My most recent attempts have also involved trying to scrape away the metal truss rods that are cast onto the solebars, which were designed to strengthen the underframes with the weight of the “modern image†battery boxes.

 

The plan this time was to bring the whole collection together (half way through, I found another one at the bottom of a box, but never mind) to build an 8 car set as originally designed by William Stroudley in 1872 for the South London Line. The first sets consisted of a pair of Firsts, a Second, three Thirds and a pair of Brake/Thirds. I rapidly discovered that subsequent sets varied, presumably to match the traffic on other routes, with an increasing taste for using Composites – but, by happy coincidence, the assortment of available coaches was just right.

 

The surgery this time has involved reducing the whole lot to bare sides/solebars and ends. Running gear has been sawn off completely, to be replaced with W-irons from EBM and spring and axlebox castings from 5&9 models. The sides have been further improved/mutilated by filing the louvre ventilators back to flat bonnets and distinguishing the Thirds by cutting away the partitions between the rows of seats. These original sets featured partitions in the Thirds that were little more than shoulder high to the seated passenger and windows that ran the full length between the doors (rather than the more normal pair of quarterlights). They were designed to be light but seem to have erred on the side of flimsy; with hindsight, regular travellers came to appreciate the more robust characteristics of Craven carriages.

 

The ends were also rather different, in having a single central combined coupling/buffer within the set. This did not provide the stability of the traditional side buffers and a contemporary account describes the motion as like that of a snake, with all the vehicles pitching and yawing in relation to each other. On the one hand, this creates a useful saving in sprung buffers, which are only required on the ends of the set; on the other it requires the invention of some simulation of the centre buffing gear.

 

When originally built, brakes were fitted only to Brake/Thirds, but by the mid 1870s, following the success of the Newark brake trials, Westinghouse brakes would have been fitted as standard. I wonder whether the fitting of continuous brakes may have coincided with the replacement of the centre buffers with rather more conventional (albeit rather short) side buffers. The improved braking (and therefore speed) is likely to have made the riding qualities even livelier than they were already. However, in the absence of evidence either way, I have taken the decision that this set will have centre buffers and Westinghouse brakes. If anyone has any suggestions, I should be interested to hear.

 

Reconstruction was largely uneventful, with springs and axle boxes attached to rocking W-irons, then the W-irons secured to the plastic vehicle floor. Given that I was dealing with an 8 car set, it was possible to do the first one slowly on one vehicle and then replicate it in a sort of production line for the other seven. Fairly rudimentary interiors have been included and similarly brake gear; given the limitations of the basic castings, these are never going to be particularly stunning scale models. However, I hope that as an eight coach train it will create an overall impression.

 

Further limitations became evident as I applied the livery. The lettering on the panels below the door windows does not sit very comfortably, partly because the cast door handles are in the way; partly also because the oval panels are slightly too small. More curiously, it turned out that the doors on one side of the brake/3rds are modelled the wrong way round. The normal way round is to have the handle to the right and hinge to the left, so that, on the platform side, the slipstream will tend to push the door shut. It looks as though the patterns for the Brake/3^rd were done as perfect mirror images, reversing not only the position of the brake compartment, but also all the door details as well. I suspect that the Firsts and Thirds only ever had one pattern for the sides and, given the difficulty that I have always had in getting the axles parallel to the ends, that the axle boxes were not exactly symmetrical around the centre line of the vehicles. With separate W-irons, I have been able to have both rectangular vehicles and axles at right angles to the sides.

 

Painting followed the normal process of rattlecan red primer, followed by Precision mahogany. The correct shade of mahogany has been the subject of debate in the Brighton Circle, with surprising amounts of new evidence coming to light even now from bodies rescued by the Bluebell Line. Victorian mahogany tended to be of a reddish hue (rather than the more purple colour of current sources) and the red undercoat tends to bring this out. The areas for transfers were given a coat of Klear and the transfers were then bedded in with a soaking of MicroSol; even then, trying to get them settled around panels and door handles was not easy. The whole lot was topped off with a coat of MicroMatt, which, possibly because of operator error on my part, comes out with just a slight sheen.

 

Weathering

 

These carriages are not intended to reflect “end of steam grotâ€, but rather to suggest well maintained vehicles that have been exposed to all the effects of the Victorian atmosphere in South London. I have drybrushed the running gear with grey to reduce the intensity of the black and wet brushed the inner edges of the panels with ModelMates mud brown. This has helped to lowlight the relief of the panels. I then dry brushed the panels with Vallejo saddle red, which is matt and a fraction lighter than mahogany, to highlight the same areas. Whilst I am quite pleased with the effect of the highlighting, I am less convinced by the wetbrushing, which seems to leave a sort of high tide mark, as well as settling in the crevices; this then needs to be cleaned off with a damp cotton bud. It has resulted in a slightly more variable colour, as you might expect with varnished wood – although I am quite prepared to be told that mere suburban coaches would have been given a mahogany paint finish, with varnished wood reserved for more prestigious rolling stock like family saloons.

 

I tested this method on a trial vehicle, rather poorly illustrated on another thread and, in view of the 100% support (thanks Dave) went ahead with the whole set.

 

Glazing

 

Some of the old glazing pieces were recycled but most had to be cut out new. The side and end castings have pieces that are shaped like dovetail joints for alignment and I rediscovered that, in one of the previous upgrades, I had cut a notch into the dovetail that sits just below the end windows on each side. This was very helpful for holding the glazing in place and allowing the lower edge to sit well below the bottom of the window. Unfortunately, I rediscovered this trick somewhat too late to retrofit it to unmodified sides, so for those it was a case of “fiddle to fitâ€.

 

Passengers

 

On the basis that not much will be visible through the windows, the coaches have been populated with HO immigrants from Preiser. They have been painted in assorted muted colours. Even at HO scale, they are a tight fit in the third class compartments, which illustrates how tight the spacing on the real thing must have been. When the Bluebell Line has its set of Stroudley 4 wheeled carriages in service, it will be interesting to see how modern day passengers react to such a snug fit.

 

Roofs

 

As mentioned above, to reduce weight, the original white metal roofs have been ditched and replaced with plasticard. An empty coffee jar appeared at just the right time, flat roof pieces were taped tight around it and it was then filled with boiling water. Next morning, the tape was removed to reveal curved roofs. These were drilled for the oil lamp pots and the whole lot was then airbrushed with a very thin black mix to try to reproduce that “once white, but now turning grey†look of “white†carriage roofs in service for any length of time. The lamp pots were given a separate “wet brushing†with black ink to highlight the crevices.

 

Conclusion

 

Collectors of old K's kits will no doubt be horrified by this desecration of products that are themselves historical artefacts. Sorry about that. From my perspective, I have cleared out a whole lot of half finished models that had been looking forlorn in the “to do†pile for a couple of decades. I now have a reasonable representation of a Stroudley block set – not to the highest standards admittedly, but consistent and impressive as an eight coach train that measures 34 inches over buffers (or just over 38 inches if you include the locomotive). It is, of course, absolutely no use for the current layout-under-construction (which is a 4 foot long micro shunting plank) but it would be a perfect fit for something like Minories, set in the 1870s or 80s - should I ever get around to building it.

 

Hope this is of interest.

Best wishes

Eric

[Dave Searle]

Hi Eric,

 

Very nice - I like the effect of the 8-carriage set, nicely close-coupled. Nice touch with the spoked wheels on the brakes and the enlarged windows in 3rd class.

 

Do you have any issues with the weight of the coaches (even after your efforts at reducing it, there's still a lot of whitemetal) and the haulage power of "Wandle"?

 

Cheers,

 

Dave

[Buckjumper]

They look fantastic as a set, Eric.

 

I am quite prepared to be told that mere suburban coaches would have been given a mahogany paint finish, with varnished wood reserved for more prestigious rolling stock like family saloons.

 

Judging by what other companies (for example the LNWR) did in the smoky environs of London, varnished wood was the preferred choice as it resisted better the concentrated sulphurous exhaust compared to a varnished paint finish which needed to be stripped and re-coated more frequently, so I'm surprised that the later umber livery was also adopted in the inner-suburban routes.

 

Victorian mahogany tended to be of a reddish hue (rather than the more purple colour of current sources)

 

I'd certainly agree with that - I know it's a bit of a tangent, but look at Brian May's Red Special guitar which is made from mahogany taken from an 18th Century fireplace. The finish is obviously very different from that given to coaches - Brighton using copal varnish which has a yellow hue, and May using Rustins clear plastic coating which is a colourless lacquer that doesn't affect the colour of the wood beneath. The point is, his guitar has a very distinctive red colouration, unlike the purple of more modern mahoganies.

[burgundy]

Hi Eric,

 

Do you have any issues with the weight of the coaches (even after your efforts at reducing it, there's still a lot of whitemetal) and the haulage power of "Wandle"?

 

Cheers,

 

Dave

 

Dave

Thanks

With 38 inches of train and 48 inches of the current layout, haulage power is not really a problem at the moment! However, I have to admit that I do not have great hopes of seeing a plastic-bodied Wandle scampering off with 8 white metal coaches. Maybe they will find their role in life parked in a carriage siding (which will be a bit tough on the passengers).

Best wishes

Eric

[Claude_Dreyfus]

There are some very interesting approaches here...especially regarding the painting.

 

I have a set of four Etched Pixels N gauge examples that are soon going to be constructed, although intended for a slightly later period in their careers - c.1890. The livery tips will be most helpful.

[ianmaccormac]

Hi Eric

That looks brilliant!

I am just in the process of making up some test etches of a fully sprung set. May be ready for AGM?

I liked the look of the block set that will appear in a Brighton Circular soon so had a go as I have always wanted to get a better chassis etched.

Cheers

Ian in Blackpool

[Brake Compo]

Lovely modelling. As I understand it from my late father, who was brought up in the High Wycombe funiture trade, "proper" mahogony is Honduras mahogony, which is indeed a lovely deep reddish colour. This has been virtually unobtainable for several decades and was superceded by Brazillian mahogony, and then this in turn by so-called African "mahogany" and other mahogony substitutes.

[burgundy]

Thanks to all for the "Like this" ticks and for the comments.

Claude D - the weathering technique is not original, but copied from Chris Cox of 5&9 Models, who has used it on a number of the coaches illustrated at http://www.5and9models.co.uk/coaches.html. I think he uses Humbrol enamels but I prefer acrylics and adapted the technique.

Thanks to Buckjumper and Break Compo for the confirmation of the issues around the colour of mahogany - I shall look forward to quoting Brian May's guitar as an authoritative source to illustrate the proper colour!

Finally Ian, having just finished one Stroudley block set, it may take me a little time to recover from the experience and think about a second one in etched brass! On the other hand, a nice outside framed Craven goods engine would fit really well on the current layout project..............

Best wishes

Eric

[Buckjumper]

I would very much enjoy seeing the reaction to your citing the Red Special

 

I've been reading back over some some notes I have here which suggest the Stroudley carriages had Moulmein (Burmese) teak underframes, and the bodies were mahogany with teak framing. If the teak was simply varnished that would create quite a patchwork look to the carriages. Do you think the teak might have been stained / scumbled / painted to retain a uniform look?

[kirtleypete]

Thanks for pointing me in the direction of this thread Eric - a very interesting read. 

 

Peter

[steves17]

Very impressive work Burgundy and a project after my own heart.  I've recently tried making the Roxey Moulding kits but as a newb to soldering found them a little challenging so for bulk production purposes I decided to also buy the IoW resin sets by SmallBrooke Studio as an experimental and slightly cheaper alternative.

 

With all the flash and other imperfections i'm not sure if I would recommend them for altering into how they originally were but thats what i'm doing and they still look better than the Bachmann Thomas Range ones at least. 

Lopping off the battery boxes with a disc cutter and replacing the beading on the ends

( thirty thou rod, but is a shade big and have got some ten and twenty thou now coming in the post )

to make the change over isn't too difficult but as these are my first kits I have a few questions if you or anyone else can answer them.

 

Could you tell me what you used for the 'top hats' as these wouldn't of been in your IoW kits either   I've experimented with Evergreen '225' 4mm rod but its not quite good enough by itself.

The 'top hats' lantern ventilators seem bigger in some photos

and kits i've seen such as Roxey Mouldings 7mm scale photos but i've not heard any text mention of them changing size during production history-anyone know about this?

The bungs were not given or even mentioned with the Roxey Kits and instructions, so any ideas of how to imitate these and possibly the chains? 

Are the transfers you used from Fox?

 

Anyone know which company would be good to use for the chairs? I found these but there is no mention of who made them.

 

Lastly, with the close coupled sets did these still have the steps and hand rail on the one end of each coach or, as they were normally linked in rakes, would the ones on the guard coaches be sufficient for workers to use and hop across?

 

Help will be most appreciated for this rookie.

Edited January 6, 2016 by steves17

[Nile]

Looks like Ratio coach seating to me.

[burgundy]

Steve

Nice to see another set of Stroudley vehicles under construction. I have never built any Smallbrook Studios resin kits but I understand that they have a lot in common with the K's white metal products.

The definitive book on the subject is LB&SCR Carriages Vol 1 by Ian White, Simon Turner and Sheina Foulkes. There may well have been more than one design of top hat for oil lamps  but I simply bought some from 5&9 models, whose website is linked above. I know that Chris is only doing kits as batches at the moment but small items like this may well be in stock so it is worth an e mail. If you run your carriages in daylight, the wooden bungs should not be a problem. They were used to plug the empty pot when there was no lamp in place, so should only be on the roof when lamps were provided.

The transfers came from the Brighton Circle.

There were three different types of Stroudley 4 wheeler. The early suburban vehicles had a single centre buffer and would not have had space for any steps up the inside ends of the vehicles. At a later date, suburban coaches had short side buffers but were still pretty close. I cannot see evidence of end steps on each vehicle but I have not found a definite answer. Main line stock had ordinary long buffers and I have seen at least one drawing that shows steps up the end of a non brake vehicle.

The seating strips that you have used look the same as the ones that I used in the first class carriages. Third class had plain wooden seats and painted plasticard did the job. Second class had some stuffing in the seats and I think I used the same seat strips in a different colour. By the time that you have the roof on, there is not a lot to see!

Good luck with the project and I shall look forward to seeing the finished set.

Best wishes

Eric 

[steves17]

Many thanks for the reply Eric as its proved most helpful. I contacted Chris at 5 & 9 Models and he has kindly agreed to cast me a few parts in a whiles time. I've also had the chance to read further into that early coach book by Ian White and co. Quite a few of my previous prototype questions were actually covered in there-so egg on my face and looking on pages 36 & 50-51 the penny finally dropped about what exactly the bungs were for in addition to the top hat protectors etc.  

 

I might be disappointing you by saying my coaches are for a railway based in fiction that started in 1870 but i've been getting into my LB&SC research and think i've found a solution to try and get the best of both worlds. My first set will be an early non continuous braked incarnation with the central buffers ( i'm sure they will be able to get around 2ft radius corners ) and will have the square base top hat protectors. I'm not 100% sure what livery i'll will be doing for these yet but have filled in the beaded duckets to represent the pieces of sheet iron that were used to originally form them.

 

The second prototype is fictional but as it happens will be a similar colour to your ones, though I will be going with round based top hats, similar to the ones that come the Roxey's 4mm kits ( they are incorrect though as I've since found out there were none of these on the LB&SC coaches but I have my reasons ). I will be adding westinghouse brakes on these in some form of chassis detailing, so will also have Mansell disc on the guards coach plus the close set coaches will have short buffers on the one beam and wooden stubs on the opposing end.  

 

The third lot are the most furthest removed from prototype. These will be electrically lit but both ends of the coaches will have LB&SC type short buffers ( the ones below the guards compartment that link up to the engine will have the long type throughout the eras ). I could do with a little help with these as I can't seem to find the ventilators i'm wanting to use. I think they are called twin torpedoes but outside a large garden layout scale company,

 

http://www.grsuk.com/Torpedo_Ventilators_Coach_Small_-_12_off-M2717

 

the closest I can find are these flattened type.

 

http://www.phoenix-paints.co.uk/no-nonsense-kits/products/castings/cw310-sr-shoe-fuse-box-18.html

 

What i'm after are like these ( either or ).

 

 

As i'm now making a third era variant I'm awaiting another 8 to be cast and posted but the 12 bodies i've already got are almost ready for a prime. I found twenty thou strip to be about correct for the beading over my original thirty thou experiment.

( need to fill in that one that came out a bit short )

 

I'm currently on the fence about including steps on the one side of each non guard coach but i've seen a few close set photos that feature grab handles at the corner of the roof of where they would no doubt be, so I think i'm going to go ahead with them. I could probably fashion some out of a plastic L strip by using a file but given the number of them I'll need, plus the difficulty of trying to make the small pieces identical will be a major hassle. Is there a firm that make an etch? 

 

Cheers 

 

Steve

Edited January 11, 2016 by steves17

[Nick Holliday]

Regarding your third option of roof vents, have you looked at the MJT Range at Dart Castings or Wizard? The latter's GWRC040 looks a possible match. Comet also have a range, but no pictures at the moment. Looking at the Phoenix vent, the flattening seems to be in the wrong plane for your requirements, although I suspect that the examples you have chosen are not actually prototypical - the lower roof in the photo looks like a simplified Mk1 carriage roof moulding, and doesn't look too much like the item it is supposed to represent, and I am not sure of the provenance of the upper roof at all, and I doubt if anything exactly like them appeared on UK rolling stock. That roof brings to mind the old Lima GWR Horse Box whose roof was covered in a veritable forest of conical ventilators - beautifully mounded but totally fictitious!

[steves17]

Thanks for the pointers. I think you are right about those examples I had as being 'incorrect'. I acquired the one coach as part of a group buy sometime back and have just found it online-its an old Hornby product.

 

http://www.ehattons.com/160428/Hornby_R23_SD_B_R_Operating_Royal_Mail_Coach_M30224_Pre_owned_Numbering_worn_on_one_side_sc/StockDetail.aspx

 

This BR mk1 example's torpedoes are similar again but comparing to the various prototype photos have concluded its appearance is just down to the old moulding technique. 

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Jouef-HO-BR-mk1-coach-roof-for-brake-coach-spare-/271787396446?nma=true&si=SV%252FNKI%252BS9FKps4ZuoCTkJXe%252B8uE%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

 

Anyway yeah I can't top that GWR type you mentioned in my searches so will go for that, cheers. The last thing I really need now are the steps going up to the roofs. I have been looking about but my searches always end up with ones that come as part of a complete coach kit or individual wise the types that sit below doors. I'm not exactly worried about prototype here so there must be a place i'm missing to get something like these-

 

 

Anyway no progress today coach wise but i've half constructed 3 CCT vans by Parkside-now these crisp mouldings go together beautifully with little fussing about

[IWCR]

I  have  rebuilt  a  slightly  later  Billinton  carriage  from  a  similar  block  set.  (12"  to  the  foot  scale)

This  was  originally  close  coupled  and  did  have  end  steps.  One  set  of  three  similar  to  the  photo in  the  post  above.

These  vehicles  were  a  slightly  altered  version  of  the  later  Stroudley  carriages.

The  pannelling  on  the  duckets   shown  earlier being  filled  was  fitted  after  1911  when  the  width  of  these  was  reduced.

Prior  to  this  the  ducket  was  wider  (all  end  windows  same  width)  and  covered  with  a  plain  steel  sheet.  On  the  earlier  Stroudleys  this  went  up  over  the  gutter  line  and  blended  into  the  roof  curve,  later  ehicles  it  came  below  the  gutter.

 

Pete

[burgundy]

On 17/07/2012 at 14:56, Dave Searle said:

Hi Eric,

 

Do you have any issues with the weight of the coaches (even after your efforts at reducing it, there's still a lot of whitemetal) and the haulage power of "Wandle"?

 

Cheers,

 

Dave

Dave

A rather extended response time, but I can now answer your question. 

 

Not Wandle, but a GW Models Terrier, Piccadilly, scampering along with the K's 4 wheelers. 

(Please don't start asking difficult questions about why an inner London suburban set has reached the wilds of Sussex with a Terrier in charge). 

Best wishes 

Eric