Adam Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 One of these landed on my doormat yesterday and, with a spare half-hour that evening I thought that I'd make a start. The following isn't intended as a review, as such, but more notes on the build since the chances are that I shall want to make another two or three at some point. - You might also like to see Halfwit's Blog: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/blog/664/entry-11021-rt-models-hudson-tipper-part-1/What you get is a largish sheet of nicely etched, if quite thin, nickel silver with alternate chassis for OO and EM/P4. There is no built-in option for compensation or springing and so far as I am concerned, this doesn't bother me: the real thing has an 8' wheelbase and EM compensation for something this short really isn't necessary. Should you be so inclined, installing some sort of 3-point compensation by elongating the axle-holes vertically at one end with a rocking pivot would not be hard and there's meat enough to add some sort of springing should you wish.The instructions include written elements (which refer to the part numbers on the etch) and some nicely drawn exploded views as well as pictures of a finished wagon. These can also be found here: Click to follow. As is my wont, I ignored the suggested sequence immediately and started with the chassis rather than the body.This is progress thus far. I've deviated from the sequence here too, starting with adding the bearings (supplied) while the etch was flat. Note that the holes will need opening out a little. What I eventually did - but should have done from the start was to use the headstocks, together with a spare set of pinpoint axles, to ensure that the chassis folded up square. Because the nickel is quite thin, I also added the solebar overlays while the chassis etch was flat having first punched the rivets and scored the half-etch fold lines to aid bending. You are on your own when it comes to centring these overlays by the way, but ensuring even overhang at each end is not hard - the rivets make for a good visual clue. This is to ensure that the assembly is sufficiently rigid to stay square, a process greatly aided by the ingenious fold-up headstocks. It is a bit wobbly without these and the folds at the ends will break if flexed too much...Note that the headstock/buffer beam at the right hand end is not properly square in this picture, I have now closed it up. There should also be a couple of pieces of L section holding the axleguards at the correct distance parallel to the axles. These folded up ok, but the fold at the end failed while I was attempting to square up the chassis. This is not necessarily a design fault, more lack of familiarity with the design. Next time will be better.So far, so good.Adam Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 That etch looks exquisite, with really well thought out and minimal tagging. Can't wait to see what will happen with all those circles, I couldn't spot them on Robert's build Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted September 19, 2012 Author Share Posted September 19, 2012 Can't wait to see what will happen with all those circles, I couldn't spot them on Robert's build. They're spacing washers, as you say, a very generous supply. We shall see how many are actually needed. Adam Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RThompson Posted September 19, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 19, 2012 Hi Adam, good progress so far. If you had completed the headstock upper and lower overlays then the solebars would slot in lining them up automatically, usually the numbers are the sequence but sometimes I end up leaving out a number when doing the instructions so end up with a odd higher number than what should be. And yes, plenty of axle washers to fill the sheet where there's spaces and can be used for other models of course! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted September 19, 2012 Author Share Posted September 19, 2012 Thanks Robert, another lesson for next time. With the headstocks in place, the extra rigidity afforded by the solebars probably wouldn't be necessary to hold the chassis square though I would still recommend the use of these in the initial assembly phase, if only to keep a hand free to keep everything in alignment. More work this evening and maybe a report tomorrow hopefully. Adam Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted September 20, 2012 Author Share Posted September 20, 2012 And so there was time for a little modelling yesterday evening:Headstocks and supports for the pivots now complete. Everything fits nicely where it should without filing which is very pleasing.EDIT: Looking for prototype pictures reveals that there must have been dozens of variations on these tippers (not least, several different sizes). These seem to be manifested mainly in the brake gear and brackets associated with the ends of the chassis. The type Robert's kit represents looks very like those used at Betteshanger Colliery in Kent (note the brake fittings, we'll be coming to these in a short while):http://www.flickr.com/photos/52467480@N08/6454372039/in/set-72157628278328931/lightbox/Adam Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Saunders Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 Try this clone! Mark Saunders Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RThompson Posted September 20, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 20, 2012 And so there was time for a little modelling yesterday evening: Headstocks and supports for the pivots now complete. Everything fits nicely where it should without filing which is very pleasing. EDIT: Looking for prototype pictures reveals that there must have been dozens of variations on these tippers (not least, several different sizes). These seem to be manifested mainly in the brake gear and brackets associated with the ends of the chassis. The type Robert's kit represents looks very like those used at Betteshanger Colliery in Kent (note the brake fittings, we'll be coming to these in a short while): http://www.flickr.co...28931/lightbox/ Adam Yes that's the very version, there was a lot of variants in brake gear, buffers and tipping bodies. That version produced had the simpliest braking gear compared to other variants. This version was used elsewhere along with other variants. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted September 21, 2012 Author Share Posted September 21, 2012 Thanks Mark for that work's picture - is that on a 9' wheelbase do you think? Some more prototype pictures - all different (and most bashable from the kit I would think)! http://paulbartlett....f2976#h3a8f2976 http://paulbartlett....230c1#h285230c1 http://paulbartlett....230c1#h248c8b0d http://www.flickr.co...85241/lightbox/ - this shot shows a precise match. http://www.flickr.co...89364/lightbox/ Note that this last is a larger vehicle with mixed wheels - see that the far wheelset (open-spoked) is wedged with a couple of brakesticks for some reason. It is also somewhat battered! Some more progress while waiting for the glazier to do his stuff. Nothing very major it has to be said, but little steps are being made and I've made a start on the tipper body. The first modification (there will be a couple more, some additional detailing) was to add some coupling hooks and drawbar plates. Perhaps these are an understandable omission since there is a deal of personal preference in these things and most etched kits fail to include them, but it isn't for want of space on the etch! I tend to buy hooks from Ambis and make them up into sets of couplings, with my own links from tinned copper wire in batches ready for installation so that wasn't an issue: having these things in stock simply saves time, fuss and delay when building things and maximises the effectiveness of modelling time. The tipper is a nice one-piece fold-up which does so very neatly once the rivets have been embossed. The truly fastidious might complain that there are no rivets or overlays on the inside but a glance at the inside of a real one will demonstrate that they were fairly well caked with the remnants of the last load. I might yet make my own from shim, but I'm not certain it's worth the effort at the moment. Not all the strengthening ribs are on yet but the first, 'U' channel folded up quite nicely once I'd scored the half-etched fold lines with aid of a mini vice and some square nosed pliers to get the fold at a proper right angle. You could, I suppose, substitute milled channel if you can't face the bending operation (and some later examples of these vehicles were welded, per this Chas Roberts example at the Middleton Railway or Mark's 'copy' above). Still quite happy with this, brakegear next. Adam Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted September 21, 2012 Author Share Posted September 21, 2012 Was this used as a form of a saw horse bench as the other end is propped up to make a level surface that could be used for simple repair work. Sounds entirely plausible. It might even be correct. Though if it is, it's the only evidence of repairs being attempted!Adam Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Saunders Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 The wagon S53 at The Middleton Railway is a Sheffield Corporation, sewage sludge tippler built by Charles Roberts for mainline running, another is at the NRM Shildon (ex Cottesmore). Mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMJ Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 This is the one at Middleton as mentioned above. Photo is located on my Leeds Engine site. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted September 22, 2012 Author Share Posted September 22, 2012 Anyway, a little more finger-singing work and it's finished. Three more minor deviations from the instructions here:1. Rather than the two layers supplied for the brakegear, I took another from one of the spare frets (see post #1) to make up a third layer which gives the gear some much needed bulk. [NB. A big positive that I've neglected to mention thus far is that Robert has very kindly supplied spares for the bits that can - and will - go 'ping' and are never seen again on the etch].2. A minor piece of additional detail visible just above the brakeshaft (replaced with 0.7mm wire rather than the 0.45 supplied) is the pin that retains the release lever while in transit. Just a very short piece of 0.45mm wire and a spare Masokits screw coupling link soldered on the top.3. I replaced the buffers with modified ABS SR brakevan buffers (nothing wrong with those Robert supplied, but photographs suggest that these four-ribbed self-contained buffers were more common - three hole discs weren't by the way, but they happened to be the first out of the drawer - any more I build will have spoked wheelsets). The modification, should you be wondering, was to remove the central ribs from the sides with a sharpish scalpel.A couple of shots to give an idea of the size of the completed vehicle. It is really very small: appreciably shorter than a Bachmann sixteen-tonner, the kind of wagon most modellers think of as petite. The wheels are only in place temporarily: dad is very kindly turning the ends off a set of pinpoint axles for me. The alternative - a 'Cosmonaut's Pencil' solution this - is to simply take the ends off with a cutting disk/piercing saw/large file according to preference.Lastly, an end view, note the blu-tack holding the tipper body level. A smear of epoxy will do the job for final assembly I think since the two bits are probably best weathered before that stage. In the meantime, the sub-assemblies are in a coat of red oxide primer waiting on the axles to turn up. It's worth noting too, that in real life the chassis and tipper could easily be found at opposite ends of the site!I suppose I should add a 'review type' sign off. All in all this is a fine kit which goes together nicely, and can be done in the course of a long evening if you wish. There is a scope to add a little more detail should the mood take you and there are any number of prototype variations which, if you can find good, clear pictures, should be easy enough to emulate. If anyone has such a photograph of the brakes worked by handwheel and or a drawing showing the works, I'd be interested. The ultimate question with kits such as this is 'Would I build another?'. It should be clear from the above that the answer is yes.Adam Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RThompson Posted September 22, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 22, 2012 Hi Adam, Glad you've enjoyed it and its gone well, as from the various photos posted, we've seen quite a few variations which its not possible to create them all but obviously the main parts are there so its possible to create other versions. I will some time next year once I've cleared the current to do list, do the sheffield sewege works longer charles roberts version which along with a friend took photos and measurements of the one at middleton railway with permission and special thanks from/to the railway. I will put some photos of the wagon up on the RT Models website gallery section in the next few weeks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted September 22, 2012 Author Share Posted September 22, 2012 Thank you Robert. I am, it has to be said, a bit of a detail fetishist in these things but this has been a nice, relaxing way to spend a few hours several evenings this week. It's always good when something doesn't stall for want of parts, enthusiasm or having to stop to redesign half the bits mid-way through the build. Interesting to hear that you're planning on doing the Chas Roberts one as well later. On the basis of this, I'm looking forward to it (and another couple of these). Adam Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruston Posted September 22, 2012 Share Posted September 22, 2012 A very interesting prototype and nice to see a kit being produced at last. I have a Hudson catalogue somewhere and once I get a working scanner I'll post some pics of the drawings of these tippers, if anyone's interested. Regarding the Moreton wagon, I'm sure I've seen a similar works photo of one with a brake wheel, instead of a lever but I can't remember where. I've deinitely seen other photos with this type of tipper with wheel-operated brakes though. Now if only there was a 7mm version... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RThompson Posted September 22, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 22, 2012 As to a 7mm scale version, warley exhibition may provide the answer? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Posted September 22, 2012 Share Posted September 22, 2012 This Hudson example appears to have wheel operated brakes; http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/gallery/image/13996-rolling-stock-34/ Hudson catalogue? saw one today for sale by a trader at Alan Keefs open day, to you sir, £75.00. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted September 23, 2012 Share Posted September 23, 2012 As to a 7mm scale version, warley exhibition may provide the answer? Teaser Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted September 23, 2012 Author Share Posted September 23, 2012 This Hudson example appears to have wheel operated brakes; http://www.rmweb.co....lling-stock-34/ Hudson catalogue? saw one today for sale by a trader at Alan Keef's open day, to you sir, £75.00. Thanks Arthur, that's excellent - one occasion where heavy retouching is really beneficial since the detail is shown clearly. I'll maybe give that a go with the next one. It's an unusual arrangement with four shoes acting on the outside of the wheels, but the rest of the vehicle is exactly as the version Robert has produced which is pleasing. Adam Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruston Posted September 23, 2012 Share Posted September 23, 2012 As to a 7mm scale version, warley exhibition may provide the answer? I'm afraid I don't go there so I guess I'll have to wait until something's posted on here. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Posted September 23, 2012 Share Posted September 23, 2012 I picked up a copy of the latest IRS publication at Alan Keefs open day, 'Skinningrove Iron & Steel Works; Its History, Railways & Locomotives'. One of the photo captions mentions that, in March 1948, the company purchased 24 steel, side-tipping, wagons at a cost of £5760, so that's £240:00 each. They appear to be of Hudson manufacture. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted September 29, 2012 Author Share Posted September 29, 2012 A few days go by and, having stuffed the headstocks with lead shot and Milliput, a coat of read oxide has been added. Since this seems to be a typical colour-scheme for the breed, that's the paint job sorted out barring lettering (very little) and weathering (probably quite a lot). For the record, 2 thick washers and one thin either side seems to be about right to sort out the sideplay. Adam Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Saunders Posted September 29, 2012 Share Posted September 29, 2012 As a variation on the 'V' skip there is the side tippler from the Iron Stone quarries! There are some stored at Cottesmore! Bachmann produce a version in their 'O' gauge narrow gauge range, shame not available in 'HO'. Mark Saunders Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RThompson Posted September 29, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 29, 2012 I did measure these last year so there is plans, just need the time and get the current to do list cleared first. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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