Uncoupler DCC - 00 gauge

[model-trains]

Has anyone made a small uncoupler that will work linked to a dcc decoder?

 

I have standard Hornby and Bachman couplings.

[Robin2]

Is this a ground based decoupler or one fitted into the vehicles?

 

If it is to be ground based you might learn a lot from this thread about using an Arduino to decode DCC. It would then be very easy to get the Arduino to operate small servos to lift uncoupling arms.

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/78578-dcc-controlled-peco-turntable-project/

 

...R

[peter220950]

Try Keen Systems if you want a vehicle fixed system,

 

http://www.keen-systems.com/Couplings.html

 

bottom of the page, complete package looks a bit pricey but it might give a clue to which components to use in a 'home brew' system - it looks to be using a small relay as the actuator?

 

[model-trains]

Is this a ground based decoupler or one fitted into the vehicles?

 

If it is to be ground based you might learn a lot from this thread about using an Arduino to decode DCC. It would then be very easy to get the Arduino to operate small servos to lift uncoupling arms.

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/78578-dcc-controlled-peco-turntable-project/

 

...R

 

Thank you for your help I will read again to get a better understanding of this option, at this stage I am looking at the options.

 

Try Keen Systems if you want a vehicle fixed system,

 

http://www.keen-systems.com/Couplings.html

 

bottom of the page, complete package looks a bit pricey but it might give a clue to which components to use in a 'home brew' system - it looks to be using a small relay as the actuator?

 

Thank you for your help I will read again to get a better understanding of this option, at this stage I am looking at the options.

[bigal10]

Hi 'Model-Trains'

 

On the basis that we from the North West should stick together, I thought I'd offer you my 2 penn'orth!

 

If you are talking about a ground-based uncoupler, I have just successfully made a very simple and cheap one that operates quite effectively within DCC.

 

Having said 'cheap', I did start from the premise that I may need to build quite a few around my full-loft-size layout (early days, no scenery yet). So I have firstly built one on an offcut B&Q 9mm particle board with a short length of track screwed to it.

 

Equipment used: ECoS 50200 controller and SwitchPilot accessory decoder. I bought the SWP to test the use of servos for various items, and having 2 servo outputs, as well as 4 transistor outputs on board, was, I thought pretty good value at £25 !

So I have bought several TowerPro SG90 mini servos, (from Blackburn Balsa - the Model Aero shop on Livesey Branch Road, about £4.00) but, am planning to buy several more from Rapid Online, as they are £3.00 a pop.

 

I have sourced some really good mounts for the servos at about £2.00 each, which allow you screw the servo to the underside of the layout board, and by choosing the right actuator arm (of the 3 varieties in the servo pack) it all operates smoothly without fouling the board.

 

I use Piko (or Marklin) can't remember which, tiny black pozi-head Track Screws to secure my Peco Flexi 100 track to the 9mm particle board, and they come in handy for all sorts of other holding down jobs!

 

Having recently bought a Seep / GuageMaster uncoupler, as a test, and found it quite fiddly, not to mention horrendously noisy (especially when you video your trains) I decided to try building my own, based on the operation of the Seep.

 

So.... I followed the shape and style of the Seep Ramp, and made My Ramp from Plasticard, and attached 2 lengths of 3.5mm plastic tubing vertically underneath, using the tiny track screws, 1 for the actuator, and the other as a guide.

Drilled 2 holes through the 9mm baseboard between the sleepers at the same centres as the 2 tubes. and dropped the assembled ramp through the 2 holes.

Next, position the Servo and mounts so that the actuator arm is close to the Actuator Tube, mark the position on Actuator Tube where bolt is going to connect to Actuator Arm on Servo, 1mm drill through Actuator Tube, and using a 14BA bolt (from Todmorden Model Supplies) this will snugly screw though hole in Servo Actuator Arm, and right through Actuator Tube.

 

Now it just takes a bit of fiddling with CVs to get the whole ramp to stop at A) Track Level, and B, Upper level for smooth uncoupling of Tension-Lock couplings.

 

This is a bit like the old "Describe a Spiral Staircase, or Marylin Monroe without using your Hands" joke, and I've realised one or two photos, or a short video will show it much better.... !

 

Anyhow, hope this helps,

 

If you would find it useful, I'll post some photos or a video,

 

Regards,

 

Alan

[ThePurplePrimer]

Hi Alan

 

Sounds interesting - I for one would be very interested to see some photos and a video of your system

[bigal10]

Hi All,

 

As promised, some photos to make things clearer.

This is just my test setup on an offcut of 9mm particle board, (same as all my layout)

Unpainted as yet, but it shows the components quite well, ie: the Marklin mini screws to attach the Ramp to the 2 tubes. 

 

These 2 holes are from the earlier test rig using a Seep ramp. My Ramp doesn't require any sleepers cut

 

Top view of test track, with Ramp in down position

 

 

 

Top view with ramp in UP position

 

 

 

Underside view showing Servo in Mounts and 14BA bolt through actuator arm and through actuator tube, 2nd (shorter) tube is for location/stability.

As everything is fixed in position, nothing moves, (other than the ramp) and the 14BA bolt holds itself in place both in the actuator arm and the tube.

 

 

 

Underside, with Ramp moved to UP position

 

 

 

Screenshot of ECoS Layout display with their standard Uncoupler symbol shown on a track.

Note that symbol shows Yellow in Down position.

 

 

 

And GREY in UP position,

 

(Come, on ESU, surely you can improve on that? How about Red for UP?)

 

 

I have used 1m Servo extension cable by Cirrus (£2.31 from most Aero shops)

And the mounts are from Radio Active - catalogue number F-RCA190, about £1.79 from HobbyStores.co.uk

 

 

The hardest things to get right were aligning the holes in the centre of the ramp (witness previous mis-aligned holes shown in top picture),

and getting the Servo A and B position settings correct in the CVs, as ECoS with SWP will not read those CVs, only write to them, and like a prat, I keep forgetting what I did previously!

- Note to old-fart self, take a pad and pencil with you into the Loco Shed, erm... Loft, next time.

 

Hope these help!

 

Regards,

 

Alan

[model-trains]

Hi All,

 

As promised, some photos to make things clearer.

This is just my test setup on an offcut of 9mm particle board, (same as all my layout)

Unpainted as yet, but it shows the components quite well, ie: the Marklin mini screws to attach the Ramp to the 2 tubes. 

 

P1000054.JPG These 2 holes are from the earlier test rig using a Seep ramp. My Ramp doesn't require any sleepers cut

 

Top view of test track, with Ramp in down position

 

 

P1000055.JPG

 

Top view with ramp in UP position

 

 

P1000060.JPG

 

Underside view showing Servo in Mounts and 14BA bolt through actuator arm and through actuator tube, 2nd (shorter) tube is for location/stability.

As everything is fixed in position, nothing moves, (other than the ramp) and the 14BA bolt holds itself in place both in the actuator arm and the tube.

 

 

P1000061.JPG

 

Underside, with Ramp moved to UP position

 

 

P1000068.JPG

 

Screenshot of ECoS Layout display with their standard Uncoupler symbol shown on a track.

Note that symbol shows Yellow in Down position.

 

 

P1000069.JPG

 

And GREY in UP position,

 

(Come, on ESU, surely you can improve on that? How about Red for UP?)

 

 

I have used 1m Servo extension cable by Cirrus (£2.31 from most Aero shops)

And the mounts are from Radio Active - catalogue number F-RCA190, about £1.79 from HobbyStores.co.uk

 

 

The hardest things to get right were aligning the holes in the centre of the ramp (witness previous mis-aligned holes shown in top picture),

and getting the Servo A and B position settings correct in the CVs, as ECoS with SWP will not read those CVs, only write to them, and like a prat, I keep forgetting what I did previously!

- Note to old-fart self, take a pad and pencil with you into the Loco Shed, erm... Loft, next time.

 

Hope these help!

 

Regards,

 

Alan

Hi Alan

 

It looks good, what speed does the uncoupler raise and drop? Also how do you control the two, the amount it raises and to stop at its lowest level on the sleepers?

 

I am guessing you can have it any length, a short length or very short length. It could also be shaped for bends.

 

I am not ready yet, got a lot going on but, I float ideas and keep them in mind until I am at that stage. I would be interested to follow you with this, i think others may be also.

 

Thank you

 

PJ

[bigal10]

Hi PJ,

 

I assume you're fairly new to the DCC side of things, humble apologies if not, but I also have only been doing this for about 3 years and I find it a bit of a learning curve.

 

A little background..

My whole system is controlled by an ECoS 50200 and I have a variety of (mostly sound) loco decoders, ESU, Zimo, TCS, and some Lenz non-sound, and all my points are DCC controlled, initially by Lenz LS150 accessory decoders, but as my expertise and my layout grew, I have tried various other accessory decoders, and I must admit that I find solenoid motors quite noisy, (especially when you video your layout) so thought I would venture into new territory and try servos, as many other contributors to this and similar forums have done. So, I bought an ESU SwitchPilot accessory decoder and some aero-model servos just as a test, and was so impressed, that I started to take things a bit further, thinking about crossing-gates, signals, etc..

 

My first servo-controlled accessory was a point, activated by a servo and using piano wire as the actuator, it worked brilliantly, very quiet, and the servo holds the blade very firmly in place, even overriding the Peco over-centre spring, in slow motion and works faultlessly every time. - I'm going to do loads more as time progresses! And they're much cheaper than any other point-motor I've ever used, including my favourite Conrad jobbies!

 

So, the uncoupler ramp was next project, I didn't have any currently on my layout, and with a mixture of NEM tension-lock and some Kadee magnetics, I needed to address the uncoupling situation.

I bought a Seep / Guagemaster Uncoupler Ramp, and got it to work ok with the ESU SwitchPilot using its transistor outputs, but I wasn't happy with the action or the solenoid 'thump' on operation, (I couldn't get it to return in the right manner, as the 2nd /guide rod is just too short, and sometimes the ramp just doesn't re-locate back to track level) and so I thought maybe I could make one myself, and the result works perfectly as my pictures hopefully show.

 

To answer your questions, because all the settings are done on the ECoS 50200 controller, once you get the hang of controlling servos, it's quite easy, as you can set the speed of the servo, and the start and stop position, by writing values into CVs.

So, my ramp moves fairly slowly, but it can be as slow or fast as you like, and the start and stop positions can be tweaked in real-time, the down position is lying flat on the sleepers, and the up position is done by trial & error to get just the right height for uncoupling whilst not fouling any rolling stock whist the ramp is in the up position.

The servos will travel about 180 degrees or more, but for this application, you only need a fairly short travel of about 2 - 3 degrees, and setting the CVs is the important part. For the down position, if you get it slightly wrong, the servo will buzz if it meets strong resistance, ie: if it's trying to go lower than sitting the ramp on the sleepers, so you just reset the CV to the next value, etc.

For me, the beauty of servos is that they hold their position rock solid and don't move, until you tell them to!

 

I'm currently using one of the two servo outputs on ESU SwitchPilot which apparently are less sensitive than the 4 servo outputs on the ESU SwitchPilot Servo, which I am going to start using tomorrow, as they are much easier to set up.

 

I have set an accessory icon on my controller to show an uncoupler ramp, and ESU's standard symbol only has a yellow or grey state, which is not great on the layout diagram, so my next project is to build an LED indicator, probably disguised as a streetlamp or signal, to stand alongside the ramp, as I prefer to see some indication on the layout of what state my ramp is at, most important when a train is over the ramp, and then you can't actually see it!

 

My plan is to build several of these around my layout, and at a total cost of about £4.00 a pop, I don't think they're a bad investment, and anyhow it's good fun to try new things!

 

Hope I've not bored you rigid with this explanation,

 

If you need any further info, PJ, perhaps send me a private message?

 

Regards,

 

Alan.

[model-trains]

Hi PJ,

 

I assume you're fairly new to the DCC side of things, humble apologies if not, but I also have only been doing this for about 3 years and I find it a bit of a learning curve.

 

A little background..

My whole system is controlled by an ECoS 50200 and I have a variety of (mostly sound) loco decoders, ESU, Zimo, TCS, and some Lenz non-sound, and all my points are DCC controlled, initially by Lenz LS150 accessory decoders, but as my expertise and my layout grew, I have tried various other accessory decoders, and I must admit that I find solenoid motors quite noisy, (especially when you video your layout) so thought I would venture into new territory and try servos, as many other contributors to this and similar forums have done. So, I bought an ESU SwitchPilot accessory decoder and some aero-model servos just as a test, and was so impressed, that I started to take things a bit further, thinking about crossing-gates, signals, etc..

 

My first servo-controlled accessory was a point, activated by a servo and using piano wire as the actuator, it worked brilliantly, very quiet, and the servo holds the blade very firmly in place, even overriding the Peco over-centre spring, in slow motion and works faultlessly every time. - I'm going to do loads more as time progresses! And they're much cheaper than any other point-motor I've ever used, including my favourite Conrad jobbies!

 

So, the uncoupler ramp was next project, I didn't have any currently on my layout, and with a mixture of NEM tension-lock and some Kadee magnetics, I needed to address the uncoupling situation.

I bought a Seep / Guagemaster Uncoupler Ramp, and got it to work ok with the ESU SwitchPilot using its transistor outputs, but I wasn't happy with the action or the solenoid 'thump' on operation, (I couldn't get it to return in the right manner, as the 2nd /guide rod is just too short, and sometimes the ramp just doesn't re-locate back to track level) and so I thought maybe I could make one myself, and the result works perfectly as my pictures hopefully show.

 

To answer your questions, because all the settings are done on the ECoS 50200 controller, once you get the hang of controlling servos, it's quite easy, as you can set the speed of the servo, and the start and stop position, by writing values into CVs.

So, my ramp moves fairly slowly, but it can be as slow or fast as you like, and the start and stop positions can be tweaked in real-time, the down position is lying flat on the sleepers, and the up position is done by trial & error to get just the right height for uncoupling whilst not fouling any rolling stock whist the ramp is in the up position.

The servos will travel about 180 degrees or more, but for this application, you only need a fairly short travel of about 2 - 3 degrees, and setting the CVs is the important part. For the down position, if you get it slightly wrong, the servo will buzz if it meets strong resistance, ie: if it's trying to go lower than sitting the ramp on the sleepers, so you just reset the CV to the next value, etc.

For me, the beauty of servos is that they hold their position rock solid and don't move, until you tell them to!

 

I'm currently using one of the two servo outputs on ESU SwitchPilot which apparently are less sensitive than the 4 servo outputs on the ESU SwitchPilot Servo, which I am going to start using tomorrow, as they are much easier to set up.

 

I have set an accessory icon on my controller to show an uncoupler ramp, and ESU's standard symbol only has a yellow or grey state, which is not great on the layout diagram, so my next project is to build an LED indicator, probably disguised as a streetlamp or signal, to stand alongside the ramp, as I prefer to see some indication on the layout of what state my ramp is at, most important when a train is over the ramp, and then you can't actually see it!

 

My plan is to build several of these around my layout, and at a total cost of about £4.00 a pop, I don't think they're a bad investment, and anyhow it's good fun to try new things!

 

Hope I've not bored you rigid with this explanation,

 

If you need any further info, PJ, perhaps send me a private message?

 

Regards,

 

Alan.

 

Hi Alan

 

Yes I am new to DCC, learning all the time and guess I will continue to do so. Last November I thought a DCC Bus was a Dorset County Council Bus or similar I hadn't a clue.

 

My layout is Hornby, points are Hornby, point motors are Hornby! Decoder for points are DCC Concepts ADS-8's

 

I have an eLink and RailMaster so it is clear where I have progressed from.

 

I am building in a Burger bar, cars with head lights and street lights the switches are in place with wires hanging for the next stage. Hopefully in the next 2 weeks I will install a lighting bus and get these connected. I will also put wires to houses and stations and connect to the bus but insulate them till I get round to them. The lighting items are from Kyles lighting, Joe was very helpful.

 

I would like to follow what you are doing, know more about points motors as the Hornby ones are clunk, clunk, clunk. Especially when  you start up and 18 points set to default one by one but I also when in use the clunk is loud as points change for the locos.

 

You are doing a good job, thanks for sharing.

 

PJ

[Wogga]

A bit late here, but i have used loco mounted Krois digital couplers. They are designed to be used with Roco universal couplers and mount in the NEM pocket. Two wires run to the decoder to be operated as a function output. I have used them with Lokpilot decoders which now have an uncoupling sequence built in. The use of Lokpilot is not a requirement any loco decoder with function outputs will do the job.

 

When the engine stops i press and hold the F1 button, the engine shunts back to relieve tension on the couple, the solenoid operated latch lifts and the engine moves forward to clear, release the F1 button.

 

A video of it in action.

 

 

[model-trains]

Hi Wogga

 

This too is very interesting. I am not ready to do this yet but have been looking at ideas and options so that when the layout comes together  a bit more I can start to add these icing on the cake features.

 

Do you have more information on this?

 

PJ

[Wogga]

Hi PJ here is a link to the site, they are fiddly to run the wires from the decoder to the NEM pocket on the swinging bogies and ponies, but if you can overcome that they work well as long as they are not abused. There is a disclaimer that the coils shouldn't be operated for longer than 10 secs as there is a chance you could burn the coil out. There is no reason why you would want to any way. ? They are quite discrete when fitted and i would recommend getting height adjustable versions of  the Krois and/or the height adjustable Roco universal couplings as the NEM pockets on RTR engines is not very standard.

 

I got the couplers direct from Krois but they don't rush approx two weeks from Austria. One of RMwebs DCC sponsors did them? be warned they aren't cheap at £14 each but they work if fitted well.

 

http://shop.krois-modell.com/Krois-Modell/Digital-Couplers/Couplers-H0:::1_46_3.html

[model-trains]

Hi PJ here is a link to the site, they are fiddly to run the wires from the decoder to the NEM pocket on the swinging bogies and ponies, but if you can overcome that they work well as long as they are not abused. There is a disclaimer that the coils shouldn't be operated for longer than 10 secs as there is a chance you could burn the coil out. There is no reason why you would want to any way. ? They are quite discrete when fitted and i would recommend getting height adjustable versions of  the Krois and/or the height adjustable Roco universal couplings as the NEM pockets on RTR engines is not very standard.

 

I got the couplers direct from Krois but they don't rush approx two weeks from Austria. One of RMwebs DCC sponsors did them? be warned they aren't cheap at £14 each but they work if fitted well.

 

http://shop.krois-modell.com/Krois-Modell/Digital-Couplers/Couplers-H0:::1_46_3.html

I will take a look, thank you.

[bigal10]

As promised months ago, here is my video of my Servo Operated uncoupling ramp.

 

 

Regards,

 

Alan

[model-trains]

I found another uncoupling system on-line so add it in this section as another alternative for consideration.

 

 

http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=11333.0

 

 

PJ

[matt9f]

Hi all,

 

Sorry for digging this thread up, but i feel i have something to contribute.

Is there any reason no one has mentioned the use of the Hornby R8244 uncoupler unit? Iv'e got a few working on my dcc layout.

I'm using all the same gear as model-trains. That being; Hornby track, solenoids, railmaster and standard tension hook couplings. There are a few minor niggles/issues with them. I'll elaborate further if anyone is interested.

 

regards,

Matt

 

*I forgot to mention i'm using ADS-2's for acc decoders