terry.ecmr Posted March 6, 2014 Share Posted March 6, 2014 Attached is a photo (Lens of Sutton) which shows a Met Loco circa 1932. It appears to be arriving at Paddington on the electrified Met (Hammersmith & City) line. Can anybody supply any information on these trains. Did the loco attach at Royal Oak? How many of these trains ran? What years? Many thanks Terry ADMIN - photo removed, copyright Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisf Posted March 6, 2014 Share Posted March 6, 2014 Until the outbreak of war in 1939 there was a peak hour service from the GWR to the City. In the 1938-39 timetable they terminated at Liverpool Street. In the morning at this time there were three up trains from Uxbridge Vine Street and one each from Hayes and Southall. Four of them returned straight away [two to Uxbridge, one to Southall and one to West Ealing. On Monday to Friday evenings there were two trains to Uxbridge and on Saturday lunchtimes there was one to Uxbridge and one to Southall - many people worked on Saturday mornings in those days.. It looks as though the train of "Main Line and City" stock is on the former centre road between the two tracks shared by the GWR and Metropolitan Line as it then was. I had been under the impression that locos were changed in Platform 15 [up] and 14 [down]. It is not clear from the public timetable where locos were changed as all but one of them were allowed 10 minutes from Acton to Paddington. The exception was the 8.42 am from Uxbridge which was allowed 12 minutes inclusive of a stop at Westbourne Park. I wonder whether that train alone was routed via the centre road as pictured, the other loco changes being made in the platform where there was a spur for a loco at the Edgware Road end. Nine sets of stock were built for these services. The last three were articulated. All survived until the mid 1950s and were put to work on a variety of services after the City through workings ceased. A recent GWRJ has a pic of one on an Oxford - Paddington working at Thame and there was a trip to and from Aylesbury via Maidenhead. An early GWRJ has an article by John Lewis on the coaches and the services they worked. I'll see if I can find it. Chris EDIT - I found it. Issue 20. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Metr0Land Posted March 6, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 6, 2014 Looks like they were withdrawn by the time of this pic (no nameplates). Given that No.18 is at the front, I'd hazard a guess the others are 2, 7 and 16. The four were retained for a while after the end of regular use for some kind of 'adhesion tests' according to Vol 1 of A History of the Metropolitan Railway by Bill Simpson. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
terry.ecmr Posted March 6, 2014 Author Share Posted March 6, 2014 Looks like they were withdrawn by the time of this pic (no nameplates). Given that No.18 is at the front, I'd hazard a guess the others are 2, 7 and 16. The four were retained for a while after the end of regular use for some kind of 'adhesion tests' according to Vol 1 of A History of the Metropolitan Railway by Bill Simpson. That makes sense. Many thanks for your help Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisf Posted March 6, 2014 Share Posted March 6, 2014 I remember a reference to withdrawn Met electric locos being stored/dumped at Mitre Bridge but I can't remember when. Returning to the Met loco at Paddington, I have another theory, having looked out John Lewis's article in GWRJ20.. Between the peaks the ML&C sets did other work and did not stay in the City for there was nowhere to put them. One such made some return trips between Uxbridge and Paddington and after one of those it was stabled in Royal Oak siding prior to working in service from Paddington to Liverpool Street at the beginning of the evening peak. I reckon that the pic shows this set ready to pull into the station to load up. I'm guessing that it was worked to the centre road by a pilot loco, the electric taking over outside the station. Best not quote me though! Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cctransuk Posted March 6, 2014 Share Posted March 6, 2014 Looks like they were withdrawn by the time of this pic (no nameplates). Given that No.18 is at the front, I'd hazard a guess the others are 2, 7 and 16. The four were retained for a while after the end of regular use for some kind of 'adhesion tests' according to Vol 1 of A History of the Metropolitan Railway by Bill Simpson. Didn't four withdrawn LT electrics end up at the BR Rugby Testing Station? Regards, John Isherwood. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted March 6, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 6, 2014 I remember a reference to withdrawn Met electric locos being stored/dumped at Mitre Bridge but I can't remember when. Returning to the Met loco at Paddington, I have another theory, having looked out John Lewis's article in GWRJ20.. Between the peaks the ML&C sets did other work and did not stay in the City for there was nowhere to put them. One such made some return trips between Uxbridge and Paddington and after one of those it was stabled in Royal Oak siding prior to working in service from Paddington to Liverpool Street at the beginning of the evening peak. I reckon that the pic shows this set ready to pull into the station to load up. I'm guessing that it was worked to the centre road by a pilot loco, the electric taking over outside the station. Best not quote me though! Chris If the pic was taken on a weekday and train times were fairly static I suspect it is probably the 4.48 pm Empty Stock from 'Siding' to Liverpool St which was not booked to stop at Paddington Suburban station and appears to have formed a service to Uxbridge. there was a similar working on a Saturday just after 1.00 pm from 'Siding' (1938 service book times). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerces Fobe2 Posted March 6, 2014 Share Posted March 6, 2014 Many thanks for you info Chris. It has certainly helped. I'm so impressed with your knowledge that I'm going to throw you another one. Attached is a photo (Courtesy of Nigel Spate) of some Met Loco's, alongside ex LMS/LNWR 4 rail EMU's at Mitre Bridge Carriage Sheds. Any idea why they would be there? Where they stabled there to operate the services you have mentioned. My next layout is likely to be based on Mitre Bridge Sheds (but may be moved to Viaduct Junction) hence my quest for infomation. Terry . See 'Earl's Court' ecmr.webs.com I must credit the photo to my friend Brian Hardy who owns the copyright. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerces Fobe2 Posted March 6, 2014 Share Posted March 6, 2014 Didn't four withdrawn LT electrics end up at the BR Rugby Testing Station? Regards, John Isherwood. That is correct John but I am not sure what the tests were. XF Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerces Fobe2 Posted March 6, 2014 Share Posted March 6, 2014 Terry I might be able to help out with stock for your proposed Mitre Bridge layout. Following on from our recent correspondence I am wondering if having a number of layouts connected together might be an interesting idea? I digress from the subject and I was unaware of Met locos working into Paddington and what is the stock it us hauling? XF Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Metr0Land Posted March 7, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 7, 2014 Didn't four withdrawn LT electrics end up at the BR Rugby Testing Station? Regards, John Isherwood. Almost certainly the same four. No18 (again) and No.7 in this pic from the Barking Bill galleries R0067 - Rugby Shed by BarkingBill, on Flickr Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Metr0Land Posted March 7, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 7, 2014 If the pic was taken on a weekday and train times were fairly static I suspect it is probably the 4.48 pm Empty Stock from 'Siding' to Liverpool St which was not booked to stop at Paddington Suburban station and appears to have formed a service to Uxbridge. there was a similar working on a Saturday just after 1.00 pm from 'Siding' (1938 service book times). The sun seems to be behind the train suggesting an afternoon shot. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoingUnderground Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 There was a headboard used by the Met for these GWR services, "GW Main Line", see page 82 on the 2nd (colour) edition of the late K.R. Benest's "Metropolitan Electric Locomotives". To quote this book: "On 1st January 1907 electric locomotivers commenced the working of the through main line trains from the Great Western Railway to the City. The exchange was made at Bishop's Road (rebuilt in 1933 as Paddington Suburban), and trains ran via Kings Cross to Aldgate where a short loco spur was provided, which was removed in the early 1960s. Later this service was cut back to Liverpool Street, and was only terminated on 16th September 1939 under war conditions. In connection with this service, a regular early morning spectacle was the working of four locomotives coupled together from Neasden to Baker Street: one thence proceeded solo to Aldgate, while the remaining three made their way, still coupled, to Bishop's Road." According to the same source, the four locos at Mitre Bridge were there for experimental work "...connected with a.c. traction....". They were subsequently moved to Rugby on 1/3/65 and cut up there in July '66. EDIT: Going back to the OP's question, the GWR through services started in October 1863. The Bishop's Road to Farringdon section was laid as dual gauge so that the GWR could use the Metropolitan tracks through to the City, and the GWR provided both the locos and rolling stock for the first Metropolitan services until the two companies fell out and the GWR withdrew its locos and rolling stock from Met services in the summer of 1863. The GWR was also one of the financial backers of the Met. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
terry.ecmr Posted March 7, 2014 Author Share Posted March 7, 2014 Many thanks for the information. I will try and get a copy of that book. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoingUnderground Posted March 8, 2014 Share Posted March 8, 2014 If you're looking for a copy, there are two editions. The first was pubished i n1963 by Lens of Sutton, and has 4 pages of black & white photos, a total of 16 photos. It does not have an ISBN number. The second edition was published by the London Underground Railway Society in about 1984, the date if publication is not shown in the book, but page 96 says "In the preface to the first edition, reference was made to this "almost closed subject". That it is obviously not closed, even 21 years later, is gratifying...." impying that the second edition was published 21 years after the first, i.e. 1984 or thereabouts. The ISBN number is 0 9508793 1 2. This edition is printed on glossy style paper and contains many more photos, all in black and white, interspersed within the text, some taken after the publication of the first edition. however, the cover does have a colour photo of "Sarah" taken at West Ruislip in 1982, and the back cover features another colour picture of Sarah, this time in 1983 en route for Brighton with a 4-SUB. Chapter 11 "Conclusion" isexpanded considerably and retitied "Retirement" in the second edition and rolls the story of the MetroVics forward to the early 1980s. There is an additional chapter, 12, "The Grand Old Lady" dealing with Sarah. The book really needs to be republished bringing the story fully up to date to include Sarah's part in the "Steam on the Met" events and also the 150th celebrations of the Metropolitan line. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
terry.ecmr Posted March 8, 2014 Author Share Posted March 8, 2014 If you're looking for a copy, there are two editions. The first was pubished i n1963 by Lens of Sutton, and has 4 pages of black & white photos, a total of 16 photos. It does not have an ISBN number. The second edition was published by the London Underground Railway Society in about 1984, the date if publication is not shown in the book, but page 96 says "In the preface to the first edition, reference was made to this "almost closed subject". That it is obviously not closed, even 21 years later, is gratifying...." impying that the second edition was published 21 years after the first, i.e. 1984 or thereabouts. The ISBN number is 0 9508793 1 2. This edition is printed on glossy style paper and contains many more photos, all in black and white, interspersed within the text, some taken after the publication of the first edition. however, the cover does have a colour photo of "Sarah" taken at West Ruislip in 1982, and the back cover features another colour picture of Sarah, this time in 1983 en route for Brighton with a 4-SUB. Chapter 11 "Conclusion" isexpanded considerably and retitied "Retirement" in the second edition and rolls the story of the MetroVics forward to the early 1980s. There is an additional chapter, 12, "The Grand Old Lady" dealing with Sarah. The book really needs to be republished bringing the story fully up to date to include Sarah's part in the "Steam on the Met" events and also the 150th celebrations of the Metropolitan line. Thanks very much for the info. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparks Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 The space for the loco spur can still be seen at the inner end of the H&C platforms at Paddington. It can be glimpsed behind L50 in this shot:- http://www.flickr.com/photos/chris_adams/3394039763/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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