Sarn (Montgomeryshire) and Nantcwmdu (South Wales) plus Montgomery Town in 7mm

[richbrummitt]

Report from the GWR at Stafford Road

 

Somehow, I always go back to wagon building – which is why I have far too many, no complete carriages and only a couple of working locos.

 

Jonathan

Me too, and despite best intentions my willpower is not strong enough nor the unbuilt wagon kits pile small enough to resist.

[Poggy1165]

Wagon building is addictive. Ideally I could do with assistants to do everything that isn't wagon building. 

[Donw]

Wagon building is addictive. Ideally I could do with assistants to do everything that isn't wagon building. 

 

That is sometimes possible in a club when people barter jobs. You build me a few wagons and I build your loco sort of thing. We could do it on here but there would be postage extra.

Don

[corneliuslundie]

After some delays, on with the timber wagons.

 

The first step was to score the planks on the floors – because the sides are very low there are no planks to score on the sides and ends. My normal technique is to mark the spacings carefully along one edge and then use some kind of square to score lines with a sharp knife blade, following these up with three or four strokes with either a blunt blade or the back of the blade. This will tend to leave a raised ridge which needs to be removed carefully. Inevitably, once or twice I slipped and the knife wandered. However, in this case I treated it as a split in the timber of the very old wagon. If I had been modeling a new wagon I would have had to produce a replacement floor and try again.

The floor was then bonded to the brass sheet using superglue.

 

Next, the solebars were attached to the buffer beams, using the already folded W-iron units as spacers. Note that the bottom edge of the buffer beam should be level with the bottom edge of the solebars.

The next stage is to fit the floor, which should sit between the buffer beams. One of mine needed filing slightly to fit. Again, superglue or another adhesive is needed as you are fixing brass to plastic. Ensure that the frames are set up straight with the floor central before the adhesive sets!

 

Now the sides can be added. This is best done with the body upside down so that you can ensure that the tops of the sides are level with the tops of the buffer beams – there are nbo separate ends on these wagons.

Jonathan

 

Finally the corner plates. Here I have to admit that on the first wagon I forgot that, unusually, these are not simple rectangles but have cutouts to clear the buffer bases. I therefore had to trim them carefully after they had been fixed to the wagon.

 

There was another problem, in that despite being careful to score these little pieces of plastic before folding them three of the four broke during installation. I therefore (at the suggestion of my wife) used some metal foil from cup cake cases for the second wagon. This worked better, although once again one split when folded. I hope these splits will not show once the wagon is complete and painted.

Next time I shall add the W-irons, springs and buffers, all easy stuff.

Edited April 1, 2015 by corneliuslundie

[ChrisN]

Jonathan,

Looking very good so far.  I too have found scoring plastic does not seem to work if you are turning it towards the side that you have scored, yet there are threads where this is the advice for bending brick embossed plastic around windows, and for them it seems to work.  Maybe windows are bigger.  I have an 'Olfa' cutter that makes a groove and it is no different.  Maybe it is the tiny size.  How about the tin foil type lids from yoghurt pots?

[Donw]

There are lots of sources that has uses. The aluminium foil dishes that apple pies come in,  ditto chinese take aways, the metal tube that tomato puree comes in ( cut both ends of and slice down one side flatten out the wrikles with the handle of a file),  Thin paper and card can be stiffened with knotting once cut and bent to shape,

 

I like the wagons

 

Don

[richbrummitt]

 My normal technique is to mark the spacings carefully along one edge and then use some kind of square to score lines with a sharp knife blade, following these up with three or four strokes with either a blunt blade or the back of the blade. This will tend to leave a raised ridge which needs to be removed carefully.

 

It's not my idea but I have a piece of hacksaw blade (you can use an old one because the teeth near the frame barely get worn) with all but one tooth carefully ground off mounted in an X-Acto type knife handle, which can be used to 'scribe' the planked lines. This removes rather than displaces material so no raised ridge to remove.

[burgundy]

For scribing plasticard, my preferred tool is a carpenter's gauge. It comes with a pin which is designed for scribing and works perfectly well on plasticard and wood. Work out the measurement from the bottom to each successive score line, so that you do not build in a cumulative error as you go up the side. Set the gauge to the appropriate measurement and score each line from the bottom edge, doing both sides while you are at it to avoid a curved side. Score an overlong length of plastic so that you can cut out the sides from sections with no blemishes. To finish, you will need to go over with very fine abrasive paper to remove any raised edge and run a finger nail down each groove to clean out any residue.

Hope this helps

Best wishes

Eric       

[corneliuslundie]

This time it is do as I say, not what I did!

 

First, the W-irons with their axleboxes. One thing I failed to do was check that the springs would fit down the gap between the W-irons and the axleboxes. This mean that I had to use a small file to open up and deepen the gap and also thin down the backs of the springs.

 

Next, when it came to fitting the W-irons to the chassis I again went wrong. I carefully measured the distance on the drawing between the bottom of the solebar and the axle centre, converting this to 4mm/ft. This came out as almost exactly 1mm so I fixed 40 thou packing pieces to the undersides of the W-irons and superglued them carefully in place, ensuring that the centre lines of the W-irons lined up with marks I had previously made on the inside edges of the solebars, to give the desired wheelbase and that they were square.

But when I tried to insert the springs there was not enough space between the axleboxes and the solebars. So off with the W-irons and some experiments to see how much extra packing was needed. It turned out to be another 20 thou which put the top of the triangular openings in the W-irons almost exactly level with the bottom edge of the solebar. If I had thought I might have guessed that this would be the case. Now, once I had removed any excess bits from the springs they could be slid in carefully and fixed with a couple of dabs of superglue.

But the sharp among you will be noticing that there are flanges on the back of the springs which are intended to fit behind the solebars and help to position them accurately – but which will completely prevent the springs being slid into the axleboxes. The answer is to remove one flange (that at the outer end of the wagon), after which it is just possible to slide the springs in, though it is a bit tricky getting the spring shackle at the end, which is wider that the leaves, past the W-iron.

 

The next step was easy – gluing the buffers into the predrilled holes on the buffer beams. It was necessary, as usual, to reduce the spigots in diameter slightly until they were a snug fit, and they were then fixed in place with further dabs of superglue.

 

Then the last problem reared its head. A careful look revealed that one of the W-irons was not vertical, presumably because I hadn’t cleaned off all the superglue left when I removed it the add extra packing. So it will have to come off, be adjusted carefully, and refixed.

Next time, coupling plates, brakes and various washer plates, which themselves will be a bit fiddly because of the design of the wagon.

 

No progress on the layout at the moment as the modelling room is occupied by a door in the process of being stripped, repaired and repainted. A slight delay as our local builders' merchant has stopped stocking the full range of paint colours, so we have to find another source - and I am also trying to unblock the kitchen sink which is proving interesting.

 

Thanks for following the thread. I hope it is useful to somebody.

 

Jonathan David

[corneliuslundie]

They are getting there but once again it is a matter of do what I should have done rather than what I did.

 

When I came to add the semicircular crown plates to the solebars above the axleboxes, I realised that they needed to tuck under the sides, but the sides were hard against the solebars, probably because of the slightly inaccurate thickness of material I used. I simply used solvent to fix these even though they are brass etchings. Wouldn’t it be nice is someone could produce plastic sheet or strip in 33 and 67 though thicknesses for wagons planks and solebars?

 

My solution was to use the tip of a new craft knife to gouge out a groove in the back of the sides at the appropriate positions and to thin down the top parts of the crown plates, so they could be eased op under the sides. Fixing the V hangers (also using solvent) came up against the same issue but here I simply shortened them and butted them up against the undersides of the sides.

This then enabled me to see how much packing I needed to bring the brake mouldings up to the level where the holes for the cross-shaft were all in line and the shoes fitted the wheels. I also had to remove some material from the part of the moulding which would normally be hidden behind the solebar. It was lucky that I had some brake mouldings from a Cambrian wagon kit which though nominally for a 9 ft wagon slipped nicely between the wheels which are spaced at 8ft 7in. For now I glued in the cross shafts but left them over length until the brake levels are added.

 

Another job at this stage was to add the coupling plates. Normally I can find some suitable etched ones on a spare fret but none in my stock were the correct size so I simply used small rectangles of 10 thou plastic sheet. I drilled a small hole on the centre of each plate (0.5mm though not crucial) and then enlarged this a little - though as I use Sprat & Winkle couplings I shan’t bother here with the details of fixing them. But these holes were helpful in positioning the plates on th buffer beams which already had similar holes.

And finally the boring bit – adding the bolt heads. For these wagons at least there are none on the sides themselves other than on the corner plates, so the total was only 80 per wagon plus four to be added later to the bolsters. There would normally have been 12 more per wagon but they were hidden under the sides. Whether they were on plastic, the foil corner plates or the brass V hangers, I simply fixed them with solvent. It will be interesting to see if they remain attached long enough to be secured by the paint and varnich.

 

You cannot see but the inverted wagon has already had its bolster added, but I’ll leave that for next time, though it was not a wise move as I forgot something.

 

Finally, here is a mockup of the second house. This is based on one adjacent to Newtown station, but I have had to mreplace the modern greenhouse at the side by an extension as the house has to hide the box housing the lever frame. I think the extension is too high, so I shall raise the ground level about an inch at this point.

Thanks for following the thread.

 

Jonathan

[Quarryscapes]

Good stuff. I've been studying the drawings all morning of Cambrian bolsters for my own models. Some curious design elements for sure! 8'7" wheelbase must be unique! Another where the deck planks all have a 1 inch gap between the adjacent ones! 

 

Still can't fully fathom the brake gear, the addition of the crank seems only to make it require more effort to apply the brakes! 

[CKPR]

I assume you use the method of bending plasticard around a whisky bottle or some such and filling it with boiling water having stuck it to it with something.  The last one I tried using masking tape as advised and the tape fell off after the bottle was filled.  It has only ever worked for me in 009.  Still, we must keep trying.

 

 

I've had problems with curving plasticard for wagon roofs for years. Using bandage rather than masking tape works as does putting the bottle (heat proof hopefully) in  the oven at about 100c. I've also used the roofs from PECO wagons as these are pretty close to M&CR vans and cattle wagons and very easy to fit. 

[corneliuslundie]

Rather a long time since my last post.

 

I eventually got the door stripped and painted which has made rather more room in the modelling room, albeit that there is now a bookcase being painted instead.

 

The timber wagons are complete and awaiting painting.

 

The remaining work was the brakes and the fiddly bits.

This is part of the Cambrian Railways drawing showing the shape of the stanchions. I chickened out of tapering them but had to add the shaped piece and loop at the foot. I made this part of the stanchion from 1mm square plastic rod with a 0.35mm hole drilled through, and then cut and filed to shape. Before I went near it with solvent I threaded a piece of 0.31mm NS wire though the hole to stop it getting blocked - at least I did this after writing off my first attempt when the hole just disappeared.

 

This was then fixed to the wagon using solvent.

The next part was the hard part. I removed the piece of wire and then had to replace it with a loop. I ruined several of the stanchion extensions in the process but eventually got there even if the loops are rather poorly shaped. The larger loops through the ends of the bolsters were, by comparison. easy.

 

Finally, on to the brake gear. The components were from an Ambis fret. I simply bent the levers at the right point to match the angle in the drawing and cut them to length, rounding the cut ends. They were then superglued to the wire already threaded through the V hangers, positioned so that the horizontal part of the handle was level with the bottom of the solebar, as per the drawing. Then the other piece (whose name escapes me) was bent up mostly along the half-etched folds provided, threaded onto the brake levers and superglued into place, only attaching my finger on half the occasions. The final job was to trim the wires through the V hangers to length so that they just protruded from the brake levers, representing the nuts that would have held the real brake levers on. 

You will notice that the brake lever on the side with no brake shoes is "wrong" handed. This is correct. As per the discussion on RMWeb a while ago there must have been a concentric clutch on each side but they do not show up on the drawings so there was no need to try to model them.

 

I found an answer to my question as to whether the 10thou cubes would stay on the metal parts. After the handling needed to add the brakes etc about half were left, so the last job has been to replace them.

 

I have also added Sprat & Winkle couplings but since there are not of interest to many people the photographs were taken first - and before the 10 thou cubes were replaced.

 

No modelling for the next three weeks as we are off to Kosova and Albania. Back in late June, when I really must finish sorting out that turnout control. At least I have the brake gear on the loco back together again, and most of the damage is invisible or has received a touch of black paint. Unfortunately, I found that the top of the bunker had come loose, and even though I cleaned off the old glue very carefully there is now some damage to the paintwork which needs rectifying. I wonder if my GWR green paint will match. And, surprise, surprise, I have made up a couple of wagon kits.

 

Thanks for following.

 

Jonathan

Edited May 29, 2015 by corneliuslundie

[Donw]

The wagons have turned out really well.

 

Don

[ChrisN]

Rather a long time since my last post.

 

I eventually got the door stripped and painted which has made rather more room in the modelling room, albeit that there is now a bookcase being painted instead.

 

The timber wagons are complete and awaiting painting.

 

The remaining work was the brakes and the fiddly bits.

cr timber stanchion.JPG

This is part of the Cambrian Railways drawing showing the shape of the stanchions. I chickened out of tapering them but had to add the shaped piece and loop at the foot. I made this part of the stanchion from 1mm square plastic rod with a 0.35mm hole drilled through, and then cut and filed to shape. Before I went near it with solvent I threaded a piece of 0.31mm NS wire though the hole to stop it getting blocked - at least I did this after writing off my first attempt when the hole just disappeared.

 

This was then fixed to the wagon using solvent.

one wagon no brakes.JPG

The next part was the hard part. I removed the piece of wire and then had to replace it with a loop. I ruined several of the stanchion extensions in the process but eventually got there even if the loops are rather poorly shaped. The larger loops through the ends of the bolsters were, by comparison. easy.

stanchion detail.JPG

 

Finally, on to the brake gear. The components were from an Ambis fret. I simply bent the levers at the right point to match the angle in the drawing and cut them to length, rounding the cut ends. They were then superglued to the wire already threaded through the V hangers, positioned so that the horizontal part of the handle was level with the bottom of the solebar, as per the drawing. Then the other piece (whose name escapes me) was bent up mostly along the half-etched folds provided, threaded onto the brake levers and superglued into place, only attaching my finger on half the occasions. The final job was to trim the wires through the V hangers to length so that they just protruded from the brake levers, representing the nuts that would have held the real brake levers on. 

cr timber wagons complete.JPG

You will notice that the brake lever on the side with no brake shoes is "wrong" handed. This is correct. As per the discussion on RMWeb a while ago there must have been a concentric clutch on each side but they do not show up on the drawings so there was no need to try to model them.

 

I found an answer to my question as to whether the 10thou cubes would stay on the metal parts. After the handling needed to add the brakes etc about half were left, so the last job has been to replace them.

 

I have also added Sprat & Winkle couplings but since there are not of interest to many people the photographs were taken first - and before the 10 thou cubes were replaced.

 

No modelling for the next three weeks as we are off to Kosova and Albania. Back in late June, when I really must finish sorting out that turnout control. At least I have the brake gear on the loco back together again, and most of the damage is invisible or has received a touch of black paint. Unfortunately, I found that the top of the bunker had come loose, and even though I cleaned off the old glue very carefully there is now some damage to the paintwork which needs rectifying. I wonder if my GWR green paint will match. And, surprise, surprise, I have made up a couple of wagon kits.

 

Thanks for following.

 

Jonathan

 

Jonathan,

Lovely modelling.  Have a good time away.  Is it holiday or business?

[corneliuslundie]

Not much progress since the last post. I was away for three weeks but since then have been having a frustrating time trying to get the motor operated turnout adjusted properly.

 

As usual under such circumstances, I have been building wagon kits: a GW cattle wagon (a Coopercraft kit) for Sarn, an  NER open (a 51L kit) for Nantcwmddu and most recently a GW Open C from a David Geen kit. It you want to see the interesting time I have had with this kit have a look at the GW rolling stock thread.

 

I think the next project will be the double fronted house which I have already showed in mock-up and which will sit at the back of the layout, partly disguising the lever frame.

 

But I really must have another go at the point motor.

 

Jonathan

[Donw]

My recommendation to anyone struggling with point motors has always been Tortoise although I am going to try servos on a 2mm layout.

 

Don

[Simond]

Jonathan,

The wagons look very nice.  I should not be too hard on yourself with the roofs.

 

I assume you use the method of bending plasticard around a whisky bottle or some such and filling it with boiling water having stuck it to it with something.  The last one I tried using masking tape as advised and the tape fell off after the bottle was filled.  It has only ever worked for me in 009.  Still, we must keep trying.

 ,

Sorry if this is out of context but the solution to the roof problem that I have found to work well was to use a tin can with a lid of the type that bottles of whisky/brandy are supplied in, and a pair of MrsD's tights. A precut piece of plasticard is secured to the can with the tights, in several layers, the card is aligned with the seam in the can which is parallel with the axis of the cylinder, and the can filled with boiling water. The tights apply an even pressure and don't fall off.

 

After a brief pause, the boiling water is emptied out, and replaced with cold water. This does give a smooth, regular portion of a cylinder. Sadly it's not at all helpful for a tri-radius roof.

 

Best

Simon

[corneliuslundie]

Lots of distractions in the last month and almost nothing done on Sarn. Holidays, visitors etc intervened. I have had the layout up and got the point motor sorted out, then a short circuit (a stupid one I created myself). Have found two switch rails which I have managed not to wire, so they will be done shortly. But odd problems with the track as 12 V at the input seems to measure 1.2 V at the rails, though there doesn't seem to be a short.

 

However, other sidetracks. A rather large mine screens building for the club layout, consisting of a brass channel frame (to be painted to represent concrete) with brick panel infill. Yesterday I found a source of corrugated iron to clad the rather large roof. This has been a chapter of accidents as I managed to knock the completed frame, plus some cladding, onto the floor where it disintegrated nicely.Solder and plastic don't go well together so it had to be dismantled carefully, the frame resoldered and the panels refixed. Somehow, nothing seems to quite fit any more, so some infilling needs doing. But getting there. Obviously the colliery must have suffered from subsidence!

 

And in the last week I have been creating some girders for two overbridges. I had in stock a supply of plastic strip embossed with bolt heads as well as a good supply of cast metal T section also with bolt heads. Much of this has been used to make the bridge girders which are now in the paint shop.

 

As usual, a few wagons have slipped through the workshop as well, though I have been looking at my boxes and realised just how many I have complete but not painted or painted but not lettered. The latest task is completing a Felin Fran PO wagon where I lost one part of the underfframe moulding and have had to pull together substitutes from my various spares boxes. The two sides of the underframe won't match but fortunately you can't look at both sides at the same time and each side looks OK on its own.

 

Hopefully back to normal after Victorian Week at Llandrindod Wells, where we shall be from Friday to Sunday. (yes, I know it is technically a Steam Punk weekend but I haven't managed to relate this to railways yet.) There is a small EM layout (not operating) of Llandrindod Wells on display in the church as part of an exhibition themed on 15th anniversaries.

 

Jonathan

[Simond]

Jonathan

 

My sympathies regarding knocking things over. It's not a good way to treat your models!

 

It does sound to me like you have either a very bad connection, or more likely, a short. If you can isolate parts of the layout, I suggest you do so. If, on isolating a part, the rest is at 12V as you expect, look for the short in the isolated bit. Do double check your 12V supply is well connected to the layout. It would be odd to have such a low voltage due to a bad connection, unless a load were across the tracks, but worth checking. You could attach one side of your meter to one terminal of your controller, and probe the layout with the other, with the meter on the volt range. You should find one rail at 12V (or -12V) throughout and the other at 0V throughout. If not, you have a fault.

 

Try to describe the symptoms and I'll try to help.

 

Regarding your screens & bridges, photos please!!

 

Best

Simon

Edited August 25, 2015 by Simond

[mike morley]

It could be worth making sure the fault isn't with your meter, too. I once wasted a couple of days trying to trace an intermittent "short" in a siding that eventually turned out to be one of the probes. I eventually discovered that if I pressed fairly hard, the probe was capable of registering a short in 6mm plywood!

Edited August 25, 2015 by mike morley

[Donw]

For th e voltage to be dropped there must be a current flowing. If 12v is applied to the rails with no stock on there then one would expect either 12v or 0v rather than a lower voltage. If there is a short I would have thought the controller would have cut the power. It could be a very poor contact so that even with the minute current drawn by the meter the voltage is dropped possibly a dry joint or a broken wire still touching.

 

Don

[corneliuslundie]

So much for weekly posts!

 

At last today i got the layout up and sorted out the short circuits. I also found a missing dropper and, strangely, one section of track which was live according to the meter but where the loco insisted there was no power. A duplicate dropper sorted that.

 

However, i had to remove some of the thin ply I had glued down to provide a base for the scenery, to get at a failed join in the link between the lever frame and a microswitch which will eventually control THE signal.

 

So now ready to paint the platform walls, and then ballasting. No progress on the house, though I have collected some more information on crossing keepers' cottages.

 

As explained earlier, a lot of time has gone into the mine building for the club layout. The corrugated iron arrived from America last week and has now been applied to the roof, all 208 pieces. The corrugated iron equivalent of ridge tiles is still to be added, and then painting. The building itself is installed on the layout. When all is complete I'll take the roof and a camera to club and post a few pictures here - not too off piste as Pool Road Colliery is reckoned to be in the North Wales coalfield, somewhere.

 

And since the mineral wagon mentioned above, i have assembled, with much muttering, two MSE van kits, one Taff Vale and the other Rhymney. Since I bought them about a quarter of a century ago - or it seems like it - etched kits have improved. These were a challenge, with assembly tabs which fell off when folded into position, drawings which gave very little information on the door furniture and, with the Rhymney one, brass so thick that the half etched "rivets" were simply not affected by my riveting tool. I ended up applying the strapping bits and one solebar inside out (strangely, I had already dealt with the bolt heads on the other, years ago, though I can't imagine how) and adding cubes of plastic rod in the time honoured manner where there were now dimples. Fortunately there is a drawing of the Taff Vale version in an old Railway Modeller and I have a Mike Lloyd drawing of the Rhymney one. When they have been through the paintshop I'll post photos. They are for Nantcwmddu, of course, not Sarn.

 

Apart from the early stages of these two wagons which I soldered, and for the roof of the mine building, I have been using superglue. While it is great stuff for the job it has been upsetting my eyes, and I felt by yesterday that I had had enough fumes for a while, so it will be nice to get on with something which does not need it.

 

So the next urgent decision is the type of stone with which the platforms at Sarn were built. I rather favour a darkish red sandstone as there is quite a lot in this area, but I need to do a bit of research. Unfortunately, I don't think I know of any colour photos of Kerry station, though quite a lot of monochroime ones.

 

Thanks for your patience.

 

Jonathan

[mike morley]

All that sounds like a lot of hard work.  I look forward to the piccies.

[ChrisN]

Jonathan,

It sounds as if you have had a productive time, I too look forward to pictures.

 

Your thin ply, was that on top of the baseboard and how does it work as a base for scenery?