Adrian,

Thankyou for providing your inspiration for us others....

I and most certainly many others would appreciate it, seeing what you have done.

Even if I'm into N scale.....

Best Regards

James, Sydney Australia

Adrian,

The filler for the sandboxes was placed further back by the side of the firebox (see photo on page 170 ,bottom left, in MRJ 160) . Having been in Jim McG's garage in the days when he was living in Sileby and drawing up the 3F, I'm pretty sure that he mentioned that he took some details from a 4mm Triang/Hornby model, which is the only model I've ever seen with these circular plates on.

Cheers,

John

I realize this is subtly different to some other of the blogs

I see that as a good thing, and I think, judging by his comments elsewhere, that Andy's keen for people to take the initiative and develop the blogs in their own way.

The only thing I can think of is that the first 50 loco's in the class were fitted with the sand box fillers on top of the tanks before they changed to the keyhole access in the side of the tank. If the decision to change to the keyhole access was made after some of the tanks had been built then perhaps in the transition period they had to plate over the redundant hole in the tanks.

I went down that avenue too, until I discovered the tank top sand fillers were situated much further back towards the cab - about halfway down the side of the firebox. The other factor mitigating against this possibility is the size of the plate itself; the diameter of the sandbox fillers were a little less than the condensing pipes on the 2441 class - which were about 7??", and they appear to be offset closer to the firebox than the tank side, whereas this cover plate is a little less than the full width of the tank top (which was about 1' 8" or thereabouts, making the cover plate about 1' 3" - about the size of a water filler).

I can't find the comment at present, but I'm sure someone mentioned these plates were present on an old 4mm model, so I dredged the depths of the workshop and pulled out dad's old Triang 3F no.47606 from the late 50s....bingo, there's the cover plate, albeit a little further forward. To save time photographing it, here's a link to one on ebay which you can enlarge (sorry, but it's not a future-proof link) and see for yourself.

Several possibilities therefore spring to mind at present, and all are entirely theoretical without factual basis, but the two which I keep coming back to are these:

1. Jim had an old Triang Jinty by his desk when he was drawing the artwork.

2. Initially the Jinties were to have tank fillers in the same place as the 2441 class. Hunslet fabricated the tops and cut the holes, but revised instructions from Fowler during the build meant that the fillers were moved forward and patch plates fitted.

It would be interesting to see tank tops of the Vulcan and North British builds of these first 50 locos too.

Whatever the answer, photographic evidence seen to date appears to confirm the cover plate is not required for subsequent builds with the keyhole sandbox filler...unfortunately that doesn't help you!

Blimey! Synchronicity! :icon_wow:

Yeah! amazing :D

Cheers

John

Now here's thought....looking at the photo of the Triang model on e-bay (I used to have one of these when they were new!) that circular cover is positioned a fair bit inboard of the tank edge. To my mind it looks in the same position as where the condensing pipes went into the tanks on the ex-Midland 3F tank, which were the Jinty forerunners, and which were removed later , presumably the hole got covered by the plate. IF so perhaps Triang were fed the wrong drawing when they made the model and put the circular cover on. I've got a copy of a Derby GA of the Jinty and it's not on that , but there's no way of knowing to which batch the loco belongs , other than it has the 'keyhole' in the tanks.

Cheers

John

Now here's thought....looking at the photo of the Triang model on e-bay (I used to have one of these when they were new!) that circular cover is positioned a fair bit inboard of the tank edge. To my mind it looks in the same position as where the condensing pipes went into the tanks on the ex-Midland 3F tank, which were the Jinty forerunners, and which were removed later , presumably the hole got covered by the plate. IF so perhaps Triang were fed the wrong drawing when they made the model and put the circular cover on. I've got a copy of a Derby GA of the Jinty and it's not on that , but there's no way of knowing to which batch the loco belongs , other than it has the 'keyhole' in the tanks.

Sorry John - I can knock this one on the head. GAs and tank top photos of the Midland 3Fs - the 2441 class - show the condenser pipe entered the tanks bang in line with the centre of the dome - i.e. roughly where the water fillers went on Jinty's. The 2441s had their water fillers where the plate is on Adrian's tank top - by the firebox/boiler join. There is a vertical condensate venting pipe directly behind the bracket on the tank top, but that is directly in line with the back of the dome, and not near the mysterious cover plate (on either Adrian's or the Triang Jinty).

BTW, the difference in the water fillers above is due to the condensing engines having special steam-tight lids, whereas the normally aspirated members of the class had bog standard lids.

2444 is probably the one I'll be building:

Copyright Public Domain.

FWIW you can also see the position of the sand filler and water filler on this non-condensing 2441 tank top here.

Ah!...I see , but I still don't think the cover was on the Jinties....unless.....on the first 50 they put the water filler where it had been on the 2441 class and later moved it to the forward position, plating over where it had been.....just an idea

Cheers

John

Ah!...I see , but I still don't think the cover was on the Jinties....unless.....on the first 50 they put the water filler where it had been on the 2441 class and later moved it to the forward position, plating over where it had been.....just an idea

I refer you to my first comment near the top

Hi Adrian,

I was quietly following this thread in 'the other place' and I'm pleased that I can continue to do so in here, although rather less discretely than before.

I was talking with Jim McGeown at the Southwold show in the summer (even managed to insert the odd word sideways into the conversation) and I remember well Jim admitting that, in the early days when he didn't know any better, he used the Skinley blueprints as the basis for his kit designs. So if the aforementioned circular patches appear on the Skinley drawing then you have your answer as to why they are in the kit, even if that doesn't explain why Skinley drew them in the first place.

Another suggestion is to ask Bob Essery.

'I refer you to my first comment near the top'...........

Oops!....that'll teach me.....I tend to get a bit carried away !!

Cheers

John

I've been to the Severn Valley Railway Museum at Highley & photographed their Jinty in some detail on a sunny day. It is unfortunately in the dark far end of the Museum shed. Anyway, there are no round 'blanking plates ' that the Triang 4mm loco apparently had. There is an upright tank water level indicator on the tank near the right hand side of the cab (facing forward), rather like a smaller version of the one fitted by the GWR on loco tenders. The tank by the left hand side of the cab does have a second fire iron upright holder near the cab that is a little smaller than the main fire iron holder near the front of this tank. Sorry, I've tried to put photos onto this web, with no success at all. Anyway hope this info is of some help.