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An ‘After Christmas Present’ – Hornby Duke of Gloucester


Silver Sidelines

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Many thanks to that well known retailer in Sheffield who contacted me on Friday for payment and then delivered the locomotive on Saturday.

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Hornby R3191 - Duke of Gloucester

What do I think of the model? Well it is ‘growing on me’.

Straight out of the box there were a number of issues. Most obviously ‘something’ had come adrift in transit and the engine was no longer coupled to the tender.

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Tender to engine coupling unglued.

In the way of things this is minor and can easily be remedied.

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Engine to Tender Coupling as it should be

The front of the tender is easily re-glued (remember to reattach the metal engine to tender coupling first!)

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Front section of tender / keeper plate

A more concerning issue was the poor running quality. The engine would hesitate and there was also a tendency for it to snake or waddle i.e. not run smoothly in a straight line. I would try ‘running it in’.

 

After some thirty minutes there was some improvement. The wheels turned smoothly so I thought – not a quartering problem. I would take the engine apart and look at the wheel sets.

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Wheel bearings?

First to note are the lack of brass wheel bearings – in fact I would say the wheel bearings seem rather crude.

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One piece coupling rods

I was also surprised by the one piece coupling rods- even my Airfix Castles and Dapol County from the 1970s and 80s have articulated coupling rods.

I had little search on the internet and came across a comment about the Hornby Duke of Gloucester model which said something to the effect that “of course with no springing to the driving wheels the engine will show up all the irregularities in the track and may even stall”. I would agree - although with the big motor and flywheel – you may not always notice.

How to proceed? I took the bottom plate off the engine and removed the wheel sets.

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Checking sideplay

I examined and adjusted the copper wiper contacts to ensure that the springing was all even. I inspected the individual wheel sets which all seemed to run true. I paid particular attention to the amount of sideplay available and ever so carefully manipulated the outside plastic (rotary) valve gear to ensure that the centre pair of driving wheels could move fully to either side. When reassembling the wheel sets I was also careful to ensure that the speedometer cable was seated properly on the end of its axle, ensuring that there was minimal restriction to sideplay.

 

Back together I would like to say the model is nearly very good.

.

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Wiring and the flywheel

Whilst ‘inside’ the model I noticed that the wiring from the DCC socket seemed to be touching the motor flywheel. For good measure I made sure that there was a visible gap between the wiring and the flywheel.

What about the appearance of the model?

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Still to attach the brake rodding

Hornby have supplied brake rodding but no sand pipes.

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Still awaiting the attachment of the front steps

From a normal viewing distance I think the engine ‘looks the part’. The buffers are not sprung but they are realistic mouldings. The handrails on the engine are wire. Not so on the tender which has to ‘make do’ with silver painted mouldings.

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A closer view

Looking at the model more closely you can see that the smokebox dart/handles are moulded integrally with the smoke box door. The same applies to the top lamp iron which is also part of the smoke box door moulding. Similarly the external pipework around the top of the firebox which is moulded separately on the latest Hornby Britannia Class engines is part of the boiler moulding on Duke of Gloucester.

I had thought that Duke of Gloucester would be at least as good as the Hornby Britannia – for example Apollo. I would say that it is not quite as good and Duke of Gloucester maybe rather like those chocolate bars, the price has been held but the quality or size of the product reduced?

How does it run? Well after a rather hesitant start my engine is now pretty good. Obviously the model needs running in. However with a completely rigid wheel base the engine will still pick out all the irregularities in your trackwork – and my trackwork has its fair share. So be warned.

Later tonight there should be a video

as Duke of Gloucester circles my half completed layout. I am thinking it looks nearly very good.
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Either the smokebox is too long, or the footplate is not long enough before it drops to buffer beam level. The smokebox door ring bottom should be flush with the footplate, not ahead of it. The heavy shadowing in your photo suggests that Hornby's tooling has a noticeable error in this part.

 

Looking at the bearing-less chassis block, I think this is crying out for a Brassmasters EasiChas.

 

I'm sticking with my DJH kit - any mistakes in that will be entirely my own!!

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Yes you may have a point.

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Courtesy of Ian Allan ABC 1960

I see the engine number is underlined - so I must have seen it but I cannot remember what it looked like.

Regards

Ray

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The preproduction model on the Hornby catalogue cover actually got the ring and footplate appearance correct. Not sure why they turned round and made it wrong. Still, someone will hopefully bring out a kit to correct it. It strikes me as a lot to pay for something that's flawed.On the bright side, the tender looks good enough to blend in with the DJH engine to represent current preservation. Maybe it will pop up one day on eBay as a spare, who knows? I'm still kicking myself for not bidding on a Hornby BR1D (which would have made a great BR1E) last year.

 

....I see the engine number is underlined - so I must have seen it but I cannot remember what it looked like.
At least there are plenty of photos of it running today, so even if you can't remember seeing it, you can always see it again.
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I'm very fond of the Hornby Brits - ended up with four - I might give the Duke a miss. I understand why simplification was thought necessary - the Brits are very fragile (taking an earlier ones apart to chip, and getting it back together, is a nightmare!) - as well as keeping cost down, but there is no excuse for major inaccuracy when the real thing is available for all to see.

 

Thanks for the detailed check out, Ray.

 

Tony.

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I was really interested in this when announced last year, thinking that it would be on a par with the latest Britannias. However the backward step of "design clever" put me right off it, but I waited to see what the actual finished production runs would be like. I have to say I have seen enough now and have decided that I will not be buying one. The price would be good for a more detailed better running and more acurate model but for what you are actually getting it seems very expensive. (especially the latest 1960s version at over

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Hi

Looking at the review you have done about this new model from Hornby, I would not be at all happy if i had to take it apart to sort out the problems you have encountered.

You where quit happy to take it apart to sort it out, but if someone had brought it and found out it had bits fall off and would not run very well, would they be happy/confident to do this?.

It not right to buy a loco that is meant to RTR and having to do this to get it running as it should, if this is the future of new Hornby models it dos not look to good for Hornby.

Sorry i think i will be giving this model a miss.

 

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Thank you to BS4Boy , Horsetan and darren01 for their contributions.  Maybe we are being too harsh on Hornby.  You pays your money ... although I have to say I would have been prepared to pay just a little bit more and get it more nearly correct.

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TRUST the wording beneath the picture

I have just noticed the wording or rather number on the box - that even appears to have passed the checker!

 

Regards

 

Ray

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They've also spelt Sentinel two different ways on the paperwork that comes with that model. Sentinal and Sentinel.

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Rather ironic, given that the real thing had "design and construction issues".....

 

....Maybe we are being too harsh on Hornby. You pays your money ... although I have to say I would have been prepared to pay just a little bit more and get it more nearly correct.

 

The moulded detail you can take or leave - if you grew up with carving the moulded stuff off and substituting your own wire, tube, etc. then it's not going to hurt too much. But with the considerable amount of money that Hornby presumably sank into the CAD drawings and tooling (getting into the

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Thanks Horsetan

 

As I see it there are two issues raised by the Duke of Gloucester Model.

Firstly even with modern technology the production model has important dimensional errors - disappointing but as you say not the first time.

The other issue is touched upon very frequently on RMweb and relates to 'quality' which depending on who is writing. It might be the quality of detail or the mechanical performance. Only last week there was a fresh comment left on one of my old Blogs about the Hornby Castles - very good looking but mechanically suspect. I 'play trains' and the models need to be run, occasionally handled and taken apart to be maintained. Some of Hornby's latest 'super detail' models are very delicate and bits drop off them even when you are just looking. They must be a nightmare for retailers.

After Hornby's 52xx and Duke of Gloucester models do we know what Hornby's standards are - is it going to be a 'toy train' or a model for a glass case?

At a viewing distance of 2 or 3 feet I am still quite pleased with Duke of Gloucester - but I have spent some time getting there.

Regards

Ray

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Hello Darren

Darren01

is this the railroad one or the super detailed one?.
 

Not the Railroad edition.  There is a picture of the back of the box above, R3191 - the Special Edition with etched plates and smoke deflectors already fitted with wire handrails.  There is also a detail pack including front steps, brake rodding and a set of pipes for the front buffer beam.

 

Regards

 

Ray

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They are pretty much the same Super detail and Railroad anyway, only difference is some painted bits, smoke deflectors and a detail pack... body tooling is about the same.

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Hello Bluebell

They are pretty much the same Super detail and Railroad anyway, only difference is some painted bits, smoke deflectors and a detail pack... body tooling is about the same.

Thanks for that confirmation - I did wonder whether my 'Special Edition' was the Railroad Version - some slick marketing going on here?

 

Regards

 

Ray

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Hi 

Yep looks like some swift  marketing going on, having looked at the photo you have put up the smoke deflectors look awful with them lumps sticking out on the inside.

Also where are the smoke deflector brackets that hold them in place on the inside?.

The hand rails look like they are made from plastic rodding to me,as the Brit i have they are a lot straighter than on this model.

Darren01

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Hello Darren

 

I wouldn't dream of putting it so strongly but I do rather agree. I do think the 'close up lens' on the camera has perhaps exaggerated the curves in the handrails.

 

... the smoke deflectors look awful ......

The hand rails look like they are made from plastic rodding ....

Darren01

If you compare the Hornby Duke with say a Bachmann 9F I would say that one of them begins to look like a toy train.

 

Perhaps there is a marketing opportunity for replacement etched smoke deflectors?

 

Regards

 

Ray

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I pre ordered this in 2012 and the delivery got put back again and again. So on Dec 16th 2013 I cancelled it as there was still no sign. I then ordered the 60's version. I have now cancelled that as this looks like a very poor effort by Hornby and I am not a nit picker. The idea of design clever is not the slightest bit clever and this model is just back to the days of Triang at inflated prices. The Railroad range seems to be Hornby's prority so my buying of locos will be very limited now. I am dreading the P2 I have on order and am considering cancelling that too.

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Thank you Vespa and Bluebell

I decided last night to take the plunge.... but ordered the Railroad version... ..

I am thinking that is what I should have done. I was swayed by the etched plates with the 'Special Edition'. As it is I will probably use a marker pen and blacken the handrails and 'overprint' the overhead markers with the earlier red and white versions.

 

It is funny how things come to you but I have just remembered this picture - I know it is only a painting but it does perhaps confirm some 1960s detail.

 

Regards

 

Ray

 

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Duke of Gloucester - Trains Annual 1963

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It seems Hornby invested in good motors, and resigned quality in all other aspects. But good motors with bad bearings and rigid wheelbases are condemned to perennial problems. Not all of us are able to repair these issues. Considering that a Special Editions are not cheap, this is to give too little for the money. I'm convinced that the company is ill-managed, and I believed that for some years, with increasing certainty. The toy market intended products are OK, but I must point that Bachmann is achieving far better results for the same money. There are some lessons to be learnt in Margate!

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A  friend brought his new DoG (Special Edition) to our Club last night for its first run.  I am not able to comment on the detail inaccuracies, but in my opinion it ran pretty well for a new loco.  There was a slight 'whine' from the motor (or possibly gears), and it was a little jerky, but these improved as it ran.  It also ran smoothly in a straight line without waddling.  It managed to negotiate some curves which have defeated other (older) large engines with fixed con-rods, and also ran through some tricky sections slowly without stalling.

Would I buy one?  Not if the choice was between a new Hornby Britannia class and the DoG.  The Brit class are smoother, quieter and better detailed in my opinion.

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Hello Simon

Thank you for those positive remarks.

..... it ran pretty well for a new loco..... .. The Brit class are smoother, quieter and better detailed in my opinion.

I too have had models that have done what they should do straight from the box. I agree about the Britannias - possibly a high point for the railway modeller. As to DoG it might be a step backwards regards detail but it still does what it says on the box (8P) and if you look at
it easily handles seven coaches on my steeply curved grades without the need for extra lead ballast.

 

Regards Ray

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Good Morning.

Have just bought an R3191 Duke from Model Rail Scotland and agree it does look good (I'm not allowed run it until Friday though as its a birthday present!) 

 

My main question is though- what is the difference between R3191 and the recently advertised R3236?  I noticed the new number in this year's catalogue and have been trying to work out the differences.  With separate models for Railroad R3168 and now also TTS R3244 I can not see why there are two "standard" variants.

 

Not an invitation to debate, just looking for the differences.

 

Just joined rmweb this morning so still finding my way round, but have been into model railways for 25 years+

 

David

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