That looks absolutely lovely! I dream of having a decent 60113 model in that livery one day. I had a go once, converting from a 4472 model. It didn't go very well!

Thanks . I debated about whether to wait until I'd fully finish the work or just go with the flow once fully lined and insignia'd out. I'm still quite pleased with the paint finish though.... The new airbrush makes a massive difference. The proof will be when I get 'City of Nottingham' painted up this coming week and see how it compares with 46256. I'm reckoning it will be just that nudge better....

The only thing I would query with the owner is the use of the rimmed chimney. I'm pretty certain 60113 had a stovepipe when in blue, and when painted green had the switch to a rimmed one. There's a few photographs of her in the blue with the Great Northern oval on the front, and the stovepipe is apparent. Regardless, I do like that shade of blue on her and I think the finish is very nice chap.

I shall refer you to page 163 of Peter Townend's book "East Coast Pacifics at work" then . It gained the rimmed chimney and the new nameplates in April 1951 and wasn't repainted into green until 1952. I should have said it's portrayed in summer 1951 condition too!

If I'm honest, it took me by surprise too, but various (bible status) sources are highly accurate to that regard and I go with what they say!

Cheers!

Fair enough Tim - reading Peter Grafton's book implies it got the chimney in 52 with the green, but if anyone would know, Peter Townend would so I'll take it as canon! That's fascinating, does that mean you could have blue livery, red nameplates with crest and lipped chimney? The possibilities are intriguing...

Now there's something that I've been racking my brains about ever since looking at this rather fine image here: http://www.christoph...0files%203.html

My eyes still say to me that the plates don't appear to be the same colour as the deflectors. In fact, i'm pretty sure they're not. I've even asked a few learned fellows the same question and the answer is an emphatic "black". The other image of it is at the bottom of the left-hand column on that same page, but of the fireman's side. Still doesn't look black to me, but I'm putting that down to the plates being new and the deflectors having much more weathered paint.

So, until I have absolutely categoric evidence (a colour photograph) that the new nameplates were indeed red when newly applied in April 1951, they're staying black!

Does it ever look nice

Not a fan either but that looks rather striking.

Does it ever look nice

I'd say it does, regardless of even my views on the prototype! I think it looks "less wrong" in blue than green shall we say.....

Not a fan either but that looks rather striking.

Thankyou!

My eyes still say to me that the plates don't appear to be the same colour as the deflectors. In fact, i'm pretty sure they're not. I've even asked a few learned fellows the same question and the answer is an emphatic "black". The other image of it is at the bottom of the left-hand column on that same page, but of the fireman's side. Still doesn't look black to me, but I'm putting that down to the plates being new and the deflectors having much more weathered paint.

Is it possible that they were red for a short period of time? In the image you linked to, the nameplate is almost certainly a different colour to that of the deflector, most likely red. In the second image, further down the page, it's almost certainly the same colour as the deflector.

Lovely looking loco BTW.

Thanks Martin! Yes, I'm convinced of it myself. The more I look at it, the more it just screams "red".

There's that nagging feeling that if I do it, some smart Alec will come along and say "that's wrong", but equally, there's the feeling that if I don't.....

T

The only colour pics of 60113 I can find are either in the blue, stovepipe, straight nameplate (sans crest) (British Steam Memories II), or in the apple green, 113 but with British Railways on the tender (private collection). The nameplate in that photograph doesn't look black to me, and again I think "red", but...it could also be the sheen of the paintwork on the nameplate, where the deflector is a more dull black as opposed polished on the nameplate.

I'm still leaning towards red with the rimmed chimney - there is a chap somewhere which has modelled 60113 in the same form with red nameplates, and it looks rather good.

If in doubt, leave it in the black, perhaps?

I know that model - it uses the frankly inaccurate JE/Modelmaster plates, which just look wrong in more ways than I dare even say! I'm leaning towards the higher polished sheen of brand new plates, which makes me wonder if that photograph is indeed shortly after naming, but without having been repainted into green. A casual repair perhaps (I'd need to check the relevant books to be certain), which would certainly make sense.

So, having this afternoon consulted someone whose views and opinions I hold in extremely high regard, the plates are staying black. It was a practice that was frowned upon by management and indeed Top Shed, so there you go!

The other thing that will most likely change (also after the aforementioned consultation) is the section of tender bodyside above the beading. Currently blue, but the general consensus is that it should be black. Out with the masking tape and black paint then - it's going to be a dirty area anyway so what the hell.....

Wow, seriously Tim you have out done yourself on this one....that shine on the boiler and the richness of colour is just superb....plus the actual finish on the locomotive.

Regarding livery/chimney and crest. I have a nice picture of her in Summer 1951, clearly Blue and with crested nameplates and rimmed chimney....plus the Northern Rubber full smokebox headboard, lovely picture.

Well done mate, one lush model to own!

Thanks Tom. That shine will soon get dulled down with some soot - much akin to that on 46256 (for those that have seen it).

The owner has now seen the images and is highly impressed and really looking forward to receipt of it once finished. Saying that, I'm rather looking forward to "pay day", not to mention the next projects already dangled in front of me....

I agree with the need to tone the paintwork down with a bit of weathering. This BR blue seems to have more interpretations than almost any other colour as the colour was not very well picked up by some colour films at the time. The Thompson rebuild of Great Northern seems to hold a strange fascination for a lot of people, including me and I've often thought of doing a model of it in 0 gauge, but instead I've asked a friend of mine to build a Peppercorn A1 in BR blue instead. Well done on a really good effort though!

I agree with the need to tone the paintwork down with a bit of weathering. This BR blue seems to have more interpretations than almost any other colour as the colour was not very well picked up by some colour films at the time.

To be honest, it's a very difficult colour to photograph, even in model form! It's actually quite a dark finish on this one, for what it's worth. I don't really think "toning down" is the right phrase here, but we'll agree to disagree on that .

Blue, especially this part of the spectrum, is a notoriously difficult colour to get right anyway, but the Phoenix shade is about the best I've come across in my time.

The interpretation of the express passenger blue shade seems to have varied region to region too; that's before the pigment failure and weathering is taken into account.

The interpretation of the express passenger blue shade seems to have varied region to region too; that's before the pigment failure and weathering is taken into account.

How very true. In addition to that, it sometimes depended on how much paint there was available at whatever works and how much they needed to dilute the stuff to last longer/paint more locos.

Incidentally, having seen what the Railmatch interpretation turns out like, the Phoenix one just seems that bit better. It goes on a lot better too, but that's just my opinion!

When I started on my aborted 60113, I decided to mix the paint up myself and came up with quite a dark shade which looked very different in bright light. I suspect some of this is also at work with some of the photographs of the blue pacifics, particularly the Duchesses for which I'm not sure that a colour one exists, but the b&w shots of the blue duchesses I've seen always look extremely light compared to the somewhat darker shades of grey in pictures of A4s and A1s.

One thing I am dead certain about: neither 60007 nor 6023 are necessarily "wrong" in their shades of blue, but they are different shades nonetheless. Both very handsome engines regardless.