The last RTR loco purchased ?

I agree that the standard of RTR is so good these days that at first glance there doesn't seem much point in buying a kit if the prototype is available from either Bachman (preferably) or Hornby. When I first saw photos of the Bachman 3MT 2-6-2T I thought it was one of the best RTR models I've ever seen, in particular they seemed to have done a better job with the chassis (the wheels especially which to my mind is where RTR often falls down). I have a soft spot for these locos as one of the first models I owned back in the 1960's was the Triang version. 

 

The problem for me though is that I model in EM and whilst you can use regauged wheels on the RTR chassis it just doesn't look quite right. Many manufacturers now do etched chassis kits for RTR and that is the route I would take so only the body would be needed.

 

For anyone modelling the period prior to about 1930 though the range of RTR models is very limited and that is where the kits score. The kit manufacturers don't need to sell tens of thousands of their products so can produce models of the more obscure (and dare I say more interesting) prototypes. You only have to look at the oddities in the Peter K range for example to see what is available. I'm currently interested in a etched kit of "Lady Margaret," a single loco acquired by the GWR from the Liskeard and Looe railway. Would we ever see a RTR version of that?

 

You are right when you say white metal kits are not as realistic as etched metal (a point I made only two days ago in connection with a blog on the Metro tank) but RTR shares the same shortcoming, moulded plastic cannot emulate sheet metal.

 

One final point, you've made an excellent job of your Kemilway kit, I particularly like the "daylight" under the boiler. Every kit once constructed though is different in terms of the detail added and quality of construction. I like to think that each kit we construct is like an individual fingerprint. It's not a Kemilway or any other manufacturer's kit, it's the model I'VE constructed. That's why I like kits though I would certainly buy a Bachman body with an etched chassis if the prototype I was after was modelled by them, time is a precious commodity and there's no doubt an etched kit in particular can take a long time to construct.

 

BTW, your Midland 1P 0-4-4T is superb.

 

John

Thanks for your kind comments John.

 

I`m surprised she does`nt look right in EM....not even with Ultrascale wheels ???

 

I agree that making something  yourself has more emotional value than some RTR I`ve owned. Now that RTR mechanisms are better quality I try to still use the same chassis, even if the brake blocks don`t line up with the wheels, whenever I can.

 

I found that the Bachmann Jinty was fairly easy to take apart and to widen the chassis sides using plasticard and refit the brakes to line up with the wheels.

 

 

 

 

Like you I also favour  building Comet chassis kits for RTR bodies........

 

 

Still hav`nt managed to refit the glazing !!!!

 

 

 

This is an old Airfix body on a comet chassis and comet tender......

 

 

 

These are part of my P4 collection I`m keeping for future projects...all put together over the past 15years or so.

 

Regards

 

john

 

 

I must admit, since my return to the hobby after a long absence I still find the state of RTR stock to be amazing, especially for the money they are being sold for. Maybe we kit builders are a dying breed......

Yep train fan............... your right....I think in another 15 to 20 years, particularly in 4mm there will be less kit builders and less kits(decent).  Mind you I still think a half decent kit build is still a much better runner than RTR and better looking /realistic below footplate......

 

I`ll never need to kit build a BR Standard class because of the high standard of what is currently on offer RTR , but I do wonder if we have had the very best now as we Brits seem to baulk at paying mega bucks for quality detailed stuff .

 

Anyhow as long as Comet models, Brassmasters, Alan Gibson, Finecast, London Road Models, C&L keep going until I breath no more.......I`ll be alright Jack !!!!!

There is some superb work here, John. You've made a great job of all of them, and I do like the Kemilway 3MT. I also did one of those for my OO layouts many years ago,having built a small number prior to that for a model shop I used to build kits for. I also did one or two DJH 3MTs over the years for the same shop, and my P4 one now features a DJH body on a Kemilway chassis. I still think that the Kemilway etched Walschaerts valve gear has yet to be bettered. Finally I did another OO one more recently, featuring a Bachmann body and a modified Comet 76XXX chassis (because I couldn't get the Bachmann chassis to run properly).

An interesting thread/discussion.  My 3.5 and 4mm days are not exactly over as I still own over three dozen locomotives, some kit built, some RTR, some hybrids.  But as I have explained before (ad nauseam) my joints are aging and my eyesight is not as good as it was, so I have switched to 7mm 0 gauge finescale.

 

So far so good.  I love the etched brass and nickel silver kits and agree that they surpass white metal castings for tender sides, frames, etc. in every way.  Easier to solder as well.  Also, some white metal castings in 4mm kits leave a lot to be desired and the fit can be a couple of mm off with disastrous results.

 

The attitude of some kit manufacturers can also be quite off putting which usually meant that I lost interest in the kit.  I am not naming any names because this is just my personal observation.  Buyer beware is probably all that anyone should take from this paragraph.

 

The 0 gauge fraternity, being so much smaller, is also quite refreshing and the various 0 gauge meets are well worth visiting.  But this is a P4 thread and I am sure the P4 fraternity is much the same.

 

The real point of the discussion between self-built and RTR is the sense of achievement at the end of each session at the workbench and the cumulative addition of a wide range of skills (and associated tools).  For the first time in my life I have the time and the patience to devote to modelling and RTR simply doesn't provide what I seem to be looking for.

Yes CK that Kemilway etched chassis is a joy to build....I missed bidding for another on ebay last year, I`m pretty sure there is a whole Kemilway kit on ebay as we speak, but as I`ve said previously I try to use the RTR chassis if its got potential.

 

Yes Focalplane, having been swept away,as it were,  with all the  quality RTR that tempted me I`d forgotten all about the  achievement and all the skills I`d gained in making all those good and bad loco kits.

 

This thread is`nt just about P4 is more about me realising that a model does`nt just make the grade because its off the shelf and stuffed with every detail, be it in brass or plastic/mazak and niether does it mean that you need to dismiss that kit built experience because it has`nt got every rivet in place.

 

 

  I mean, this Bachmann 7F is a cracker, particularly the cab detail and if I modelled in 00 guage `I`d be perfectly happy. But I dont and my attempts to re-gauge to P4 was OK up, literaly, to a point whereby she would de-rail in the goods yard. And the wheel base is a compromise for the toy part of the RTR market and far from accurate, hence I could`nt replace the coupling rods with a Gibson example.

 

But locked away in a far flung corner of my modeling universe I had a kit built (Gibson) 7F

 

Not as much rivet detail and the cab needs a revamp , but she`s  a sheet metal model of a sheet metal prototype and the wheelbase is spot on.  Sprung suspension so no de-railment.s.

 

I think this was the moment I decided to re-evaluate all my kit built locos

The Kemilway 3MT was certainly good in its day, and the chassis artwork (practically the same as the 4MT Mogul chassis) - with a bit of work to allow for sprung suspension - can still hold its own.

 

However, the body castings are quite another matter, and the smokebox in the first sample I bought was quite ropey in terms of casting quality - the nearside of it was actually square rather than cylindrical. Thinking that I'd been unlucky, I bought another, only to find it was equally ropey in exactly the same place. I did wonder whether they all came out like that.

 

On the good side, AGW/Comet provide practically the whole set of top-notch BR Standard castings, so these can go some way to lifting the body detail.

 

I can't ever contemplate going up to 7mm - I simply don't have the space for it. S4 and P87 are what I'll stick with.

Hi John - I haven't paid that much attention to the Bachmann 7F, even though I have one tucked away, but I wasn't aware that the wheelbase was compromised - in what way please, if you don't mind?

The correct 7F wheelbase is supposed to be 6'x5'6"x6' (equating to 24mm x 22mm x 24mm).

 

Now pull out the Bachmann one and measure....

Sorry CK ....no longer have the Bachmann 7F, but I can confirm that the Gibson replacement rods are/were 24mm x 22 x 24mm and they could`nt be fitted. My impression at the time was that perhaps the overall length of wheel base had been shortened by a couple of mm to get her round tight curves.

 

Certainly Gibson vs Bachmann are not the same  wheelbase (my vote goes to Gibson) and that is the first time I failed to fit Gibson connecting rods to a Bachy RTR.

 

Now the Hornby 8F was a perfect fit !!!   as was the Hornby Black 5  and Baachmann class 5,  Bachmann class 4 tank.

 

Now interestingly zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz  Bachmann BR Mogul my second favourite RTR model took the Gibson rods but there is so much slop in the axle housings that will probably take a 1/8th axle !!!   my only failure. Although I`ll snap up a 

Kemilway Mogul chassis if one comes up

I would check my Bachmann one, Horse, if it wasn't buried deep in the bottom of a filing cabinet, the front of which is blocked by propped-up baseboards and other stuff, all crammed into my too-small railway room.

 

Thanks for the response anyway, John, I suspect that the Bachmann 7F will get added to the list of items for sale when the inevitable thinning out of 'stuff' happens.

On 9 February 2016 at 09:46, ROSSPOP said:

Thanks for your kind comments John.

 

I`m surprised she does`nt look right in EM....not even with Ultrascale wheels ???

 

I agree that making something  yourself has more emotional value than some RTR I`ve owned. Now that RTR mechanisms are better quality I try to still use the same chassis, even if the brake blocks don`t line up with the wheels, whenever I can.

 

I found that the Bachmann Jinty was fairly easy to take apart and to widen the chassis sides using plasticard and refit the brakes to line up with the wheels.

 

 

 

 

Like you I also favour  building Comet chassis kits for RTR bodies........

 

 

Still hav`nt managed to refit the glazing !!!!

 

 

 

This is an old Airfix body on a comet chassis and comet tender......

 

 

 

These are part of my P4 collection I`m keeping for future projects...all put together over the past 15years or so.

 

Regards

 

john

 

 

John,

 

What other upgrades did you make to the excellent 2P?

 

cheers

 

JB

Hi Jack

 

Now there`s a story from the distant past......

 

The BR liveried  Hornby 2P had a replacement comet chassis with sprung hornblocks and P4 Ultrascale wheels. but still used the Hornby brakes and sand pipes

 

The body had a lighter overhaul with just a change of handrails and knobs Gibson sprung buffers and fitted lamp irons  .

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The Hornby tender was replaced with a full comet models kit.

 

 

 

Then she went all dirty on me.

 

 

 

So i stuffed her full of sound...........

 

 

 

 

Cheers

 

John

 

Edited September 16, 2019 by ROSSPOP

John,

 

What other 4mm stock did you acquire for Cole?

 

I ask because our Child Okeford, follows roughly the same timeframe and location.

 

Thank you

 

Jack Benson