Jol Wilkinson
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Posts posted by Jol Wilkinson
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4 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said:
Though, before the custom panels were attached to the tarted-up VAG SUVs, the VW/Audi/Skoda underpinnings were already proven reliable products.
If the Porsche and Bentley monsters prove as dependable and durable, and retain their finish as well as my ten-year-old Yeti, nobody will have reason to grouse about them.
Whether they are "worth" any more than what one would pay for a fully loaded Kodiaq, is a purely a matter of vanity vs sanity...
John
Isn't much of what people spend their money on nowadays driven by their "status" by showing off how much money they can spend/borrow. Conspicuous consumption/conspicuous leisure.
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1 hour ago, adb968008 said:
Theres a few models that Hattons made that have fallen through the cracks of discussion…
Oxford Rail ICI wagons
Dapol 10000/1
DJM 14xx
I’d imagine the ici would return easily enough, I wonder the others.
Perhaps the definition of "made" needs clarifying.
AFAIK, with the exception of Bachmann who are part of Kader and thus use the Kader factory for their own branded products, the other UK RTR "manufacturers" use factories which they don't own, in China and other eastern countries. So there are in effect, "commissioners"of products, being involved in the design and development, rather than owners of manufacturing facilities. Who owns the tooling will depend on the contract between the commissioner and the factory. It could therefore be that some Hattons "products" could reappear, the rights having been sold on.
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Unfortunately Stephen, the link doesn't take you to David Brandreth's excellent video on using a RSU , but to an American video on resistance soddering (which is how USA residents pronounce what we know as soldering).
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They do what Lez described. They provide DC for the various ancillaries such as Cobalt point motors, MERG servo controllers (for the signals). 16v AC is fed directly to sockets for the Pentrollers.
The regulators are located in the Control Panel box and are fed from a separate box that houses the AC transformers. That is a throwback to how the original version of London Road was wired up (by a Senior Lecturer of Electrical Engineering) and keeps mains AC away from the Control Panel.
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1 hour ago, scouse889 said:
Yes, still struggling to get my head around how quickly it has all happened - and indeed that it has happened at all. Plus I guess at some point this entire Hattons thread will move into the "Defunct, dormant or demised" section of RMWeb.....
Someone commented somewhere in these pages that the closure of Hattons may overshadow the launch of Hornby's 2024 range, the two being announced about 24 hours apart. To date 40 pages in this thread versus 22 pages in the thread about the latter is I guess some indication of how significant an event in the hobby the closure of Hattons actually is.
While Hattons are still supplying pre-ordered models I expect they will be kept "alive" on RMweb.
There have been a lot of what might be called duplicate "me too" postings on this thread, people telling how much they will miss Hattons, what they have bought in the last few days, when it was posted, when they emptied their Trunk, etc. I doubt that there was much of that on the Hornby 2024 topic.
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On 01/02/2024 at 10:03, Portchullin Tatty said:
Hi Jol,
In truth, I merely thought it was M&L as it is a nearly finished kit in a blank box with a set of bogie sides.
I would be interested in seeing the article you refer to if you recall where it was.
Do like your completed diner; they are beasts. Looking forward to seeing Citadels version.............
Hello Mark,
I've done a search through my own collection of magazines and cut-out articles, plus a search through any online index I can find but without success. Not in Modellers Backtrack, Morill, Model Railway Backtrack, MRJ. I bought my kits in the 1980s so I expect the article would have appeared later than that but can't recall where. I tended only to buy those magazines "outside the mainstream" so not RM or BRM. Sorry I can't be of more help.
The origin of your kit is intriguing. I was only aware of the Modellers World kit for a LNWR 65' 6" Dining Car. This was for the 9' wide W9 0f which 12 were built in 1905. These had the later wide vestibule. They were very similar to the fifteen 1897 W10 8'6" wide narrow vestibule versions. Both had centre kitchen and pantries.
The carriage sides on your model look the same but the clerestory sides are different. According to the photo in Jenkinson's book the clerestory sides aren't correct on my W10, the glass lights over the kitchen section are missing. Yours has got them although the spacing looks wrong and there should be fifteen as far as I can tell from the photo of the W10.
The etched bogie side look different as far a I can remember. I'll have to dig out the other W9 kit I bought during the pandemic to have a look. I also got a 65' 6" W63 Brake Third kit last year. This is another Modellers World kit. I believe the owner of MW in Coventry was intending to bring out a full set for the later 1909 sets. I bought it when the rare opportunity arose, but it is too late for my period so will probably become a bargaining tool!
That two such very similar kits might be produced is not surprising as there were a group of LNWR modellers in the West Midland at the time who were closely involved, also including Ralph Jackson, Brian Badger, Dave Gillot and possibly Pete Waterman as well as the owners of M&L and Modellers World. The kits now marketed under the Barrie Stevenson Label were originally produced by Brian Badger. Sadly Barrie S did nothing to improve the kits when he owned the range, such as supplying etched ends instead of cast w/m ones (which are poor castings in the one BS kit I bought).
Jol
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I don't know of a source of those as individual items. The upper ones are very similar to the LNWR type,which are part of the etches for London Road Models six wheel LNWR etched underframes. Owing to their thinness, they would have to etched if produced commercially and I suggest there would be little demand for them.
You could design and etch your own (PPD in Scotland etch small, individual, projects) or cut them from Plasticard with Archer rivers for the detail.
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1 hour ago, Portchullin Tatty said:
I had guessed what the beast was intended to be by its overall dimension!
Something like this....................
An M&L etched kit built thus far by my father and now passed to me to finish at some point.
The challenge is the roof which has been built up with plasticard. Solvent has clearly been trapped in this and is "bubbling up." I need to find a solution to this at some point (the London Road roof for the picnic saloon is a different profile!).
As a beware, you will be as much interested in WCJS coaches as LNWR. Many of the former are 6 inches wider although I would need to check if this is over the body only or also the underframe and hence potentially the footsteps.
Hi Mark,
interesting, I was not aware that M&L did a kit for a WCJS dining saloon. I built a D10 by modifying a Modellers World D9 kit, by removing a couple of the lower vertical beading strips and with Bill Bedford narrow vestibule ends. The MW kit came with a profiled wood roof section, actually the correct width for the 8' 6" wide D10 but too narrow for the 9' D9.
Barrie Stevenson did an article on making a new roof by splitting and widening an elliptical roof aluminium extrusion, making a new clerestory top from the side etches and curved brass IIRC. I can't remember where it appeared (not RM, MRJ or BRM) as it was quite some years ago. I think a lot of epoxy car filler got used. He later produced a cast resin roof for the D9. The one I bought curled up and developed several cracks so got binned.
Jol
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13 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:
They are exactly the same etches, even the numberplates are the same. The only real difference is the resin boiler in the LRM kit as opposed to a rolled brass boiler in the Maygib.
I'll post photos at some point.
Jason
Jason,
don't bother with the photos.
I had always understood that John Redrup of LRM had designed the LMS Jinty kit available from LRM, so I emailed him last night. Here is his reply.
"It was a Maygib kit but, as the body was very good there was no point changing it. It is now etched on 15 thou nickel, and has some slight modifications to compensate for the extra metal thickness. But that is where the similarities end! It has an entirely new chassis, and all the castings have been re-mastered, mainly in brass, largely using Iain Rice patterns. Also as you say the boiler is now resin, the original was etched brass, brass tube and whitemetal belpaire firebox and very very difficult to build square!"
News to me! Presumably he had been supplied with the original artwork (hand drawn I expect), which he had then adapted to suit .015" n/s, deleted the unwanted parts and drawn a new chassis, etc.
Jol
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Re solder and flux.
145 degree solder is the usual one for brass and nickel silver. I use the one from London Road Models as it has good flow characteristics and, used with a liquid flux, will get into the joints, seams, etc. to create a good joint. I use LRM 12% phosphoric acid flux for brass and n/s.
There are higher temperature solders sold for brass and n/s (188, 221 and various others) but I rarely use those. 145 needs a lower temperature for the metal so is easier to get the solder to flow.
White metal needs a "low melt" solder, usually 70 degrees but Carrs also do a 100 degree version. When fitting white metal components to brass with 70 deg, tin the brass with 145 first. Carrs 100 does away for the need to do this. The alternative is to use glue, such as a good quality epoxy. Flux for w/m is generally less "powerful" than you need for brass, 6% phosphoric being one option.
Local model shops often don't carry these items and getting liquid flux through the post is difficult. Most model railway suppliers follow the PO rules, but it appears you can get any corrosive product from eBay suppliers although they use various trade names to disguise what they are selling. A search for phosphoric acid will turn up an wide range of sanitary cleaning products.
Some people recommend the use of paste fluxes such as Powerflow of Fluxite. I don't like these but if you use them then thorough cleaning of the model after each session is very important to remove any residue. Liquid fluxes are easier, j just wash the model with warm, slightly soapy water.
If you are going to Railex at Aylesbury, several of the traders listed are usually there so you can get some first hand information on their products.
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3 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:
I was a bit surprised when buying a "bargain" Maygib Jinty recently as it's the same as the LRM version (although that has a resin boiler)!
Another supplier of etched loco kits. Whilst I haven't built my Flatiron yet, looking at the etches it doesn't seem too challenging. Most modern etched kits are pretty well designed.
Jason
Jason,
I don't think that the LRM Jinty is the same as the Maygib kit. The latter predates the former by quite some time. AFAIK the LRM kit was designed by John Redrup of LRM to be etched entirely in nickel silver and incorporate the cast resin firebox/boiler/smokebox.
For some time Alan Gibson Workshop continued to supply loco kits (which were possibly the Maygib ones) when sufficient orders had been received but the listing seems to have disappeared.
Jol
Jol
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1 hour ago, Compound2632 said:
That is equivalent in principle to what I'm doing but I feel there must be some combination of rod diameter, force applied to the rod, and Young's modulus and thickness of the underlying material*, that I'm not achieving by some margin with any of the combinations I've tried from time to time.
Too small a diameter, with too yielding a material, I've found results in a kink rather than a smooth curve.
In this particular case, the beading on and adjacent to the doors is continued across the lower panels, which isn't the case on most panelled carriages; these give added stiffness resisting the curve one is trying to make.
*and patience...
The LNWR models I have built only have vertical beading on the lower panels on longer vehicles, something to do with the size of the timber sheets Woolverton could obtain. Even with those I didn't find forming the turn under difficult but it may be that if they are more closely spaced on your models it could be something of a problem.
The hardness of etched brass can also vary but I have never found that a problem with carriages, only with locos where it has occasionally been too soft. That may have been down to which etcher the kit producer used.
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I use a 3/4" diameter aluminium rod on some 3mm black underlay foam, increasing the pressure while rolling the rod to and fro until I get the correct curve. I have found that, as it Is a fairly gentle curve, it is quite easy to form.
It is important to make sure the rod and foam are clean, to avoid any unwanted dimples in the half etched sections of panelled coaches. Don't bother to ask how I know this.
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13 hours ago, andytrains said:
Kit Built!
Does not look at all built to me.
GosTURDe again.
A look at the other items on his eBay site shows that he is also seeking new heights for white metal wagon kits at £59.95
He is also describing D&S and David Geen kits as etched with white metal detailing parts. This is clearly inaccurate and misrepresentation. The descriptions seem consistent so I expect he just does a copy and paste job on them.
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4 hours ago, MJI said:
Comet at Wizard
LRM are good kits but not that easy to build as first kit.
Edge are good.
To be honest do a comet coach first. Take your time. Is doable.
Loco do a 4 coupled first.
I converted a Hornby branded LMS 2p to MR using comet chassis, gibson wheels, high level motor and box, LRM tender.
And a lot of care modifying the body.
Ask the makers.
It depends on which kit you choose. LRM has absorbed a number of kit ranges over time, which has ensured their continued availability. Hence the difference in design and sometimes, ease of construction. As you say Martin, ask the supplier.
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1 hour ago, ikcdab said:
I think 3d printing is the way to go. For not much more than the cost of a couple of rtr locos you can have a really good resin setup. Fusion360 is free for home use and is a very capable design package. Once you have that then any models you want can be designed and printed at home. Certainly there is a learning curve, but also there is a curve when learning to build etched brass or whitemetal or scratchbuilding from brass.
Sam's trains has a series when he learns to design and print stock and locos, starting from the simplest mickey-mouse stuff through to a fairly sophisticated LNWR loco. Well worth looking at.
A lot of railway modelling skills have changed, and if you can develop tech skills, it opens up a whole new range of things.
3D printing has some of the same drawbacks as white metal. It needs to be thicker than the prototype for adequate strength, which is evident on visible edges, leaves less clearance for wheelsets (especially in EM and P4), isn't suitable for some parts such as handrails, coupling rod, valve gear, etc.
It should be seen as another material to compliment existing proven items. So an etched chassis, etched or cast nickel silver valve gear components, plastic or metal moulded wheels with steel or n/s tyres, etc. remain more appropriate. 3D filament printing is quick and clean but doesn't always provide an acceptable surface finish. SLA resin provides much better detail and finish but is a relatively slow process and currently requires time cleaning up both the models and the workspace.
3D printing is a great additional tool for the modeller, but it isn't the answer to everything.
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Hello James,
I think that the Iain Riced books, published by Wild Swan are, despite being written quite some time ago, remain the best source of published information on etched kit building, especially for locos.
When you have gained some experience with some van/wagon/carriage kits, then I would suggest you start with a "simple" loco kit such as an inside cylinder tank loco. Pacific tender locos with outside valve gear are are rather more more complex and time consuming, so take more time to complete, which can be frustrating for an early project.
If you contact/email the well known kit producers they will offer advice as to which models suit the less experienced modeller best. If you can get to one of the exhibitions which the "specialist" trade attend (including the wheel suppliers, etc.) then you can discuss what would fit your needs best. For 4mm tat usually means one of S4Society or EMGS shows, Railex (Aylesbury), York MRS and several others. Unfortunately a lot of shows tend to attract RTR traders and customers and aren't viable for the kit producers.
Jol
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The LNWR D96 40-ton bogie wagon was designed by Bob Williams for his father's EM gauge model of Aylesbury. He also sold them for some time before they passed into the hands of LRM. The website states "This kit is a development of etches produced for Geoff Williams Aylesbury layout" but doesn't state what changes have been made.
I have one of the original kits in its flat pack brown envelope but still haven't got around to building it.
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Having attended as a trader's assistant for a number of years, I found the Bowls Hall a poor substitute for the main hall last year. This seems to be another example of a sports venue failing to respect the value of one of its regular customers.
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6 hours ago, Oldddudders said:
But as said, on DC, if you move the Duette knob to the left, then the loco will go that way. Turn the loco round and it will still go the same way for that knob movement. With DCC, opening the throttle sends the loco in the forward or reverse direction whichever is set. Turn the loco round and it still goes forward or reverse, whichever is set, but is now opposite to before. You are driving the loco, not the track.
Ian,
I use DC controllers and when I move the control knob the loco moves, not the track.
6 hours ago, Pete the Elaner said:How has this waded into DCC? It was originally about buying a £200 loco & driving it with an old or cheap controller which gives a nasty, spiky output.
Your ideal DCC throttle is my nightmare. I like having to think about stopping a train instead of doing it instantly. Don't real trains coast for miles & take a few hundred yards to stop? Where is the fun in being able to stop it straight away? If I really need to stop instantly, most systems have a red panic button.
Not everybody wants a centre-off which only allows about 130 degrees between off & max either. I have used one & hated it. 0-max is about 300 degrees on a Gaugemaster, which allows a lot finer control simply because you need to turn the knob further for a small increase in speed.
There have been and still are DC controllers with inertia, e.g. Pentroller and its modern equivalent, the Pictroller (and possibly others). However these are probably considered too expensive, somewhat reinforcing Andy's opening point.
I have several Pentrollers and have found them very good, and in inertia mode, give an interesting driving experience. You really have to pay attention to what you are doing.
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4 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:
Quite a few kit manufacturers/suppliers in RM!
I would say well into double figures. In fact I think there are more small suppliers advertised than RTR!
Jason
Possibly but do you include the retailers who are advertising RTR? It is very much the case that most of the smaller kit producers products aren't available in model shops. I'll have to get a copy sometime to see.
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Very interesting analysis. A majority of the advertisers were manufacturers/suppliers of kits and bits. Quite different I imagine from what you would find today (I very rarely see RM).
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37 minutes ago, 30368 said:
One of the least interesting circuits, Brands was always prefered when the British Grand Prix alternated between the two circuits.
Kind regards,
30368
Yet most of the BH GP track was out in the woods. It wouldn't meet todays F1 requirements PITS, paddock, etc. Donnington would be a better option , although I still like Silverstone
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John,
don't forget that the Dining Saloons were 65' 6" and the Modellers World kits for these do pop up s/h from time to time. I would recommend leaving a bit more clearance if you think you are likely to seek out and build one.
Jol
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RAILEX (Aylesbury) 25th & 26th May 2024
in Exhibitions
Posted
I have attended Railex for many years, both as an exhibitor and a trader's assistant. It remains one of my few "go to" shows despite the advancing years and a round trip of over 240 miles to get there.
Last year the conditions in the Bowls Hall were not ideal owing to the weather. I also missed the spacious feel and relaxed atmosphere of the main hall.
Sadly, we are poorly served for good exhibition accommodation in this country. Few venues combine a comfortable venue, ease of access, good catering, good HVAC, adequate parking, easy access by public transport, etc. Railex achieved this with the main hall (although the catering is somewhat restricted) but the Bowls Hall was a let down last year. Hopefully the weather will be more moderate this year and conditions will be more comfortable for visitor, exhibitors and traders.