So what green? (class 71)

[rembrow]

For Southern Region coaches that I've made from Ian Kirk models and my current DC Kits Class 71, I've used Railmatch Southern Stock Green, however I find it a bit on the dark side, but nowhere near the dark green that Bachmann have used recently. The Railmatch painted items blend well with the Hornby painted stock, which have more yellow pigment in the mix. I agree with bigherb, that the Southern Region green that Hornby have used is good for my recollection of newly painted mus and 73s on the western section at Clapham and Wimbledon.

[SRman]

I like the Hornby BR(S) green as used on their Maunsell coaches and 2 BIL/HAL units.

I also like the green Bachmann used on the 4 CEP and 2 EPB units, which looks to me like at least one pic I have seen of a class 71 in bright sunshine (with no white/red/white stripe) - from memory it was in one of Brian Haresnape's books, but I may have to correct that if I can find the pic I am thinking of.

[Nergle]

If Dave produced the 71 in a shade of green that didn't match anything produced by anyone else, I bet the howls of outrage would echo to the furthest corners of the net.

 

Of course I am sure Dave wants to make the best 71 possible, including livery finish. However the practical truth is that Dave is only doing the loco and knows it will be running with other mfrs rolling stock. Trying to match an existing livery finish is a pragmatic choice since if people are happy with their Hornby/Bachmann's coach green then decorating the 71 to match is likely to please the greatest number of people.

 

I model the GWR in N gauge so I don't really have a stake in the issue. However I think that matching the closest existing finish is a smart move given that the 71 is being released as a stand-alone product. Also I think that canvassing opinion on what people actually want is always a good move. Would that Hornby and Bachmann did more of it.

Well said that man - Karhedron!

 

The point about the actual shade of paint used on the real thing not scaling down has been made and certainly applies.  Most people view Bachmann's latest green MK1s as being too dark (lovely tho' they are!) and I have never heard an adverse comment about Hornby's Maunsells or Mk1s (in terms of colour), so the answer surely is to start with the right shade of green and see how adrift that is from the most common/respected colour on models.  If no difference, then there's the answer, otherwise a match to the coaches is surely the way to go.

 

Look at another example:  Hormby's Pullman cream/yellow is too acid and Bachmann's is too orange (to my eyes).  So both are wrong and neither match.  From a modeller/purchaser's point of view that is the worst outcome.  It's not as if the two manufacturers are in competition with their Pullmans; they should compliment but they don't.  Personally, I think Honrby's is closer, but again, I just wish they both matched.  And so likewise, the class 71..

 

Hope that helps.  Looking forward to seeing an interesting model soon!

 

Nick Lewin

[dibber25]

It's quite wrong to think that everything on BR matched. A pair of coaches might match when they came out of works but a 12 coach express would have coaches which varied from just ex-works to about to go into works, and the colours varied considerably, especially as 1950s paints faded much more than current paints do. Pullmans certainly varied widely, especially as a gleaming recently shopped car reflected much more light than one which had the 'dark chocolate' look of a vehicle that had been in use for a long time. The roof colours, too, were not consistent. Check out one of those overhead views of the Churchill funeral train to see the variety of colours. Modellers like to see consistent colours throughout every train but that isn't an accurate reflection of the real railway.

[BlackRat]

It doesn't really matter, as long as it looks just about right.

 

Then it will be to the vast majority.

 

You'll never accurately match it anyway, as you are going off of historical photos or slides.

 

Unless you can find a sample of the original paint, but again it would have had over 40 years to settle down, and will differ from the original colour due to oxidation etc.

 

I worked for a time in quality control where we mainly colour matched enamel finishes from two different factories, almost impossible with red/pinks and greens being some of the hardest to match up.

 

And you know whatever you do, the whining will start anyway.

[JSpencer]

Considering the Human eye can tell the difference between 100000 and 10000000 colours ( depending on who to believe), that will leave a lot of green shades to choose from.

 

Me personally,

Loco green is Bachmann class 24 D5013

Coach green are Replica mk 1s

DMU green, Bachmann 105s

 

That said a difference in varnish between prototype and model will lead to a lot of different opinions (gloss edging towards too dark impression for some). Scaling down the coach can mean scaling down the colour to a tad lighter.

 

Then we have where it will be viewed. It is best to use daylight or natural sunlight, however domes seeming to match here can look totally different under various artificial light ( UV content and the way it is converted can change the appearance ever so slightly).

 

A recent photo of a dress on the internet caused a stir between blue and green though both groups would see the same colour in real life for example so posting an image here would not help.

[slilley]

I am researching the Class 71s and indeed 74s with a view to doing a follow on book to the Southern Railway Co-Co locomotives. The locos' design file at the National Archives makes v interesting reading.

 

When built the 71s were delivered in Southern carriage green. There was one heck of an argument over this between the SR, the BTC's Design Panel, and Mischa Black who was retained as a design consultant for the class.

 

From around 1961 the white and red line was dropped and in the years that followed SR carriage green gave way to standard BR loco green. The SR were very slow to paint their locos with yellow panels, indeed by the time E5003 had made it to Crewe in Feb 1967 for conversion into a 74 it was still in all over green. E5000 and E5001 had the totem on the main ventilator side in a different place at first as compared to the rest. Indeed details like totem position were being discussed when the first loco was in the paint shop with staff waiting to be told where to put it!

 

Small yellow panels were applied to members of the class in a wide variety of shapes and sizes. I have yet to see a carriage green loco with a yellow panel. They all seem to be dark green examples all sans lining of course.

 

Best wishes

 

Simon

[phil gollin]

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Excellent  -  a new "early" version for Dave to do !

 

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