Gauge 1 1/32 and 10mm scale.

[Mr chapman]

Can anyone tell me if there is a great difference between these two scales? Looking at gauge 1 wagon kits I see several manufactures sell both sizes in the same section. To add to my confusion the gauge 1 association recommends tenmille for wagons but marketed as gauge 1? Would a train of 10mm and 1/32 wagons look odd?

[unravelled]

Without being over precise, the difference is about 5%. Say about a couple of mm at buffer height, about 5mm at highest point. With the great variety in actual vehicle sizes, some mixed scale combinations may be hard to spot.

 

Although the majority of my stock is older, so 10mm, I'm tempted to move to 1:32 for anything new, to match my Brassworks pannier. Unfortunately I'm also being tempted by the 10mm Woodbury Models planet, on the grounds that it's so small it won't look overscale.

 

Thanks

 

Dave

[Mr chapman]

Looks like I'll stick to 1/32 or 3/8th scale. It's just confusing that it's all under one umbrella. I've seen slaters gauge 1 wagons described as G scale as well. Looks like anything on 45mm track gets thrown together.

[daifly]

This link might be helpful

http://www.titfield.co.uk/one32mod/Modindex.htm

 

Dave

[Beatty 139]

The 10mm v 1/32 debate will run on and on for many more years years to come and both scales will continue to rub shoulders.

 

The key issue is what you want to model.

 

A 1/32 post grouping loco hauling a rake of modern (post 1922) coaching stock that fill the loading gauge built in 10mm scale will look odd as the coaches will dominate the locomotive, however a BR standard say in 1/32 would not look odd (except for context) with a rake of 10mm scale pre grouping 4 or 6w coaches.

 

When it come to goods stock if your looking to run in the pre BR period the verity of prototype sizes largely renders the scale difference largely unnoticeable.

 

The growth of 1/32 is largely being driven by RTR manufactured in china where as live steam is very much dominated by 10mm scale and I don't see that changing any time soon, 

 

So no answers just food for thought, 

[hartleymartin]

Not helped by the fact that aircraft and military models also have xompeting 1:32 and 1:35 camps with 1:35 currently growing in popularity over 1:32.

 

Of course, with gauge 1 either 10mm or 1:32, the 1:35 military stuff is often handy for background stuff.

 

I model in 1:43.5 but I make plenty of use of 1:45, 1:48 and 1:50 scale items.

[Mr chapman]

This is quite confusing So if I wanted to scratch build a coach as a one off item the 1/32 would be the better scale. But if years down the line I wanted to run it behind an aster steam locomotive for example I would be better off building in 10mm?

[Not Jeremy]

It isn't confusing at all, 1/32 is the correct scale for the gauge and is what anyone contemplating G1 should choose, in my opinion.

 

When I started, I wanted to build a Ruston 48DS as I had happy memories of the ex Dickinsons paper mill one that was at Bitton donkeys years ago.

 

I blithely started at 10mm to the foot and then twigged that the scale didn't match the gauge.

 

I reasoned that as I was making it myself all it made no sense whatsoever to build something that was fundamentally wrong.

 

Moving on, I find that one has to use odd 10mm parts (buffer housings, axleguards etc) as that is all that is available in some instances, although this is gradually changing.

 

I think the comments abut Chinese RTR driving 1/32 scale are a bit off the mark, they are just as capable of producing 10mm scale as 1/32 scale (and have done), it is the commmissioning individual or company that dictates the scale.

 

For information, all Aster is 1/32 scale as are Trevor Taylor's G1MCo products.

 

Deciding on the correct scale is the easy part, now have a think about the track and wheel standards - that'll give you a real headache!!

 

You might want to stick at 7mm scale, most people do.....

 

Here's a snap of a small 1/32 train that followed on from the Ruston:

 

 

 

Simon

 

 

[Beatty 139]

Simon is quite right in what he says, Aster are built to 1/32 as are most of the commercial G1 live steam locos coming to the market, however most G1 live steam locos that you see running are built to 10mm scale, if you remove the commercial products I would say at least 90% are 10mm they are also most likely to be Meths fired where as other than Aster most commercial locos are now gas fired.

 

Gauge 1 is a broad church and some fabulous models are made in both scales and enjoyed, so far no one has mentioned 1/29 that the american produce some models in such as the Class 66 diesels.

 

Track standards are again as Simon says another issue, most Gauge 1 modelers work to the standard this is fine and some work has been done to improve running such as reducing check rail clearances on crossing noses, the code 180 rail supplied by Cliff Barker is a great visual improvement over the old code 200 standard, but if you go to G1 fine track the back to back changes restricting you to only running on fine track. I am told that Peco G1 is still produced in 1 3/4" gauge which is fine as the standard allows + - 0.5mm.

 

The issues with Gauge and Scale should be no obstruction to you enjoying G1 and are no worse that any of the popular scales and in fact far more easy to navigate than HO, OO, EM, P4 etc. 

 

Find your local G1 group and go see how everything looks to make your own mind up over what your happy with.

 

The only Gauge I am aware of that doesn't have these issues of scale hanging over from the past is Gauge 3, but that's really big at 1/22.5

 

Andy

[Mr chapman]

1/32 it is thanks chaps.

[unravelled]

The other issue which arises with G1 is that of power supply. You usually cannot run 2 rail electric and steam/older stock together because of lack of insulation on wheelsets. Of course radio control is very practical, and probably the best option these days. But budget for insulated wheelsets if you want to be able to  run your stock on 2 rail layouts.

 

I'm sticking with  stud contact for legacy reasons, but new items will generally be battery R/C, (and 1:32).

 

I hope we'll see some followup posts here

 

Thanks

 

Dave

[Mr chapman]

Track issues won't really effect me as I have no way to run anything. But I'd go with live steam or RC battery power. If I ever got around to motive power. Probably a brassworks 03 conversion. I'll have to join the gauge 1 association.

[Mr chapman]

I hope we'll see some followup posts here

 

Thanks

 

Dave

Will do

[switcher 1]

I bought a 'Gauge 1' Class 04 Shunter, it is 1:32, & it cost less than the 'Gauge 0' version at the time.

It has a few yards of Peco track to shuttle back & forth on at the moment.

I was considering a home layout, built pointless, just using a sector plate to align to (3) sidings on the viewable section.

My problem is the cost of rolling stock to go with it, (maybe somewhere in the future it will come about).

((I just love the 'big stuff'.))

[hartleymartin]

Scratch-built Y6 or J70 wouldn't be too hard in 1/32 scale. You could probably do the whole body in scale lumber!

[switcher 1]

 

 

I'll have to join the gauge 1 association.

If you do join, would you be so kind as to let me (us?) know what exactly they offer, as I thought about joining, but wasn't sure what they were actually offering, thanks.

[Guest Isambarduk]

"I ... wasn't sure what they were actually offering..."

Their website is pretty comprehensive: www.g1mra.com
particularly this page outlines the offering: www.g1mra.com/membership
but there are also resources for free: www.g1mra.com/resources-link

David

[Beatty 139]

The G1MRA do produce a very well presented mag 4 times a year and they have a good network of local groups across the UK and world for that matter, who organise regular local get togethers.

 

The G1MRA also put on two shows a year the AGM one is unfortunately Members and guests only but this year the spring show was open to the public hopefully that will continue to be so.

 

The one thing I would say is the G1MRA operates with a broad church policy so it does cover all aspects of the gauge/scales, if you have one specific interest you might feel it isn't for you, you would only know by giving it a go. Personally I don't think it's an expensive group in respect to it's membership fees.

 

On the subject of goods rolling stock there is more stuff coming in reasonably priced RTR although it does tend to be in 1/32 scale and is coming on the second hand market if you keep your eyes open, 16T minerals, oil tank wagons are both very common, but for anything else it will be down to a secondhand buy, kit build (goods stock is very well covered by the kit market) or scratch build.

 

I would recommend talking to people in G1 already though because there are some real howlers of kits out there especially some of the etched brass ones which started in 4mm were poor when taken up to 7mm and are far worse by the time they get to 10mm scale, the worst of it being they are not cheep!

 

Andy 

[Guest Isambarduk]

"... although it does tend to be in 1/32 scale ..."

 

Just to add a bit of detail here: 1/32 scale is approximately 9.5mm: ft (as opposed to the 'traditional' 10mm : ft for 1 Gauge) which brings the scale into line with the track gauge of 45mm. 

 

At 10mm : ft, the track gauge should be approximately 47mm (not 45 mm).  Similar situation to 0 gauge, which is traditionally 32mm gauge (in the UK) whereas at 7mm :ft it should be nearer to 33mm gauge (of Scale 7).  And let's not get into the 4mm 'story' ...

 

David

[taddies2]

Was confused about the standards of G1 so consulted this forum. Have decided not to go down this track as it is at the same place that 00 is i.e. a right mess. so will stick with my 5" for a bit longer you can get just as wet and cold anyway

[Beatty 139]

Gauge 3 work to one standard if you fancy something a bit bigger without a scale issue, it's one of the few gauge/scales that don't have a legacy from Henry Greenly.

[Knuckles]

Serious question guys, you say the scale is about 9.5mm instead of 10mm, is there an EXACT mm scale equivalent for 1:32.

 

1:29 has 10mm.

 

1:32 has ? Is 9.5mm exact or close?

 

I need to know and currently am trying different things with the calculator but my equations to convert 29 to 32 is giving different results when putting 9.5mm in and if it is truly the same then it would be the same.

 

You said about so that is not the same and the results are similar but similar isn't good enough!

 

I may have a few details wrong as reading up on the issue seems very convoluted.

Edited February 27, 2018 by Knuckles

[Grovenor]

Serious question guys, you say the scale is about 9.5mm instead of 10mm, is there an EXACT mm scale equivalent for 1:32.

 

1:29 has 10mm. (No, see below)

 

1:32 has ? Is 9.5mm exact or close?

There are two scales for Gauge 1, The exact 1:32 which matches the track gauge and the slightly larger 10mm to the foot, the traditional Henry Greenly oversize.

Then we have the 1:29 relatively recently introduced in the USA, apparently to make the models bigger so they don't look to out of place alongside G gauge NG stock.

 

For the mm to the foot figure for 1:32 divide 304.8 by 32 giving 9.525 exactly.

For the mm to the foot figure of 1:29 divide 304.8 by 29 giving 10.5103448 approximately.

For the ratio of 10mm to the foot divide 304.8 by 10 giving 1:30.48 exactly.

Regards

Edited February 27, 2018 by Grovenor

[Knuckles]

Thanks Keith. much appreciated.

 

You always are a fountain of knowledge!

 

 

I got the scales mixed up, my bad. So just to be clear, if I re-scale up to 10mm to one foot it would be 1:30.48 scale.

10mm is 30.48 not 29, cool. and 32 then would be 9.525 if I'm understanding correctly.

 

29 more for American modelling then?

 

 

 

I'm basically after the scale for both 10mm and the finer more correct 9.525mm so in future I can account for both.

Spending a lot of time re-scaling at the moment.

Edited February 27, 2018 by Knuckles

[flubrush]

Serious question guys, you say the scale is about 9.5mm instead of 10mm, is there an EXACT mm scale equivalent for 1:32.

 

1:29 has 10mm.

 

1:32 has ? Is 9.5mm exact or close?

 

I need to know and currently am trying different things with the calculator but my equations to convert 29 to 32 is giving different results when putting 9.5mm in and if it is truly the same then it would be the same.

 

You said about so that is not the same and the results are similar but similar isn't good enough!

 

I may have a few details wrong as reading up on the issue seems very convoluted.

 

The exact scale relationship for 1:32 scale is that 1/32" equals one inch or 3/8" (12/32) equals one foot.  The scale is one of the imperial architectural/engineering scales which equated fractions of an inch to one full scale inch.   the next one up in the series is 3/4" scale or 1:16 scale which has 1/16" equal to one prototype inch (3 1/2" gauge) and the next one down in S scale which is 1:64 scale or 1/64" equal to one prototype inch.   For metric equivalents,  Keith has given all the conversion factors above.

 

The other range of imperial scales was based on duodecimal subdivisions of a foot,  for example 1/4" scale or 1:48 (American 0) where 1/48" is equivalent to a prototype inch.   In days gone by,  it was quite common to get rulers with 1/12" scales and 1/24" and 1/48" subdivisions to work with these scales.

 

Jim.

Edited February 27, 2018 by flubrush