Opinions on three ccontrollers

[Robbieb]

Hi all

I'm looking at three controllers, the DIGITRAX - FULL THROTTLE DUPLEX dt-dt402dce and the LENZ - LH100 and the Gauagemaster prodigy advance 2.

Being fairly new and only having used the rail master softer which I didn't like, I wanted to upgrade to something good.

I was just looking for opinions on the controllers I selected and if there is any better out there.

Thanks

Robert

[traction]

They are all handset types, from that I take it you are not interested in a console type?

 

Another good one to look at is the NCE PowerPro, you can start with the PowerCab and can upgrade it.

 

Cheers

 

Ian

[Adrian Wintle]

I find the Lenz kit to be rock solid, but I find the MRC (Gaugemaster) and NCE handsets are more intuitive to use. I find the Digitrax handsets to be reasonable, about on a par with the Lenz ones in complexity, but I've only used them occasionally. I'm not a big fan of MRC based on my experiences with my Prodigy Express. I currently have a Lenz  Set 100* and an NCE PowerCab (that was our club standard).

Any of them would be fine - you really need to try them out to figure out which one works for you. Alternatively, if you have friends or a local club that a particular controller, it might be an idea to go for that so that you have a ready knowledge base.

 

*actually 3, don't ask

 

Adrian

[Robbieb]

Well I guess I wouldn't say no, I didn't think about a console, I suppose I wouldn't mind a console if it was as good. Only reason I picked those was that I could walk around but console would be good too, any recommendations there?

[Robbieb]

3 lenz sets lol, must be good

[Mike Storey]

Depends very much on what your price limit is? if it stretches to it, I would take a good look at the Piko Smartcontrol, hand held, wireless, touch screen for functions and rotary knob for movement control, which is not available yet, but should be soon, cheapest if you buy direct from a German supplier (much, much cheaper than Gaugemaster's advanced order price, for example). The blurb about it is on their website (English version available). Something similar is due out from ECoS, but I haven't seen the details. If the reality is as good as the fanfare, these would make existing hand-held controllers look a little like antiques.

 

If Ron. Ron, Ron sees this thread, he can tell you more.

[ROSSPOP]

NCE plus ZIMO decoders is top notch for me in both my 4mm and 7mm sound equipped stock. I belong to a very well known modelling club in the Midlands which is set up with Digitrax and most of the 7mm brigade wish it wasn't

 

Regards

John

[Robbieb]

Thank you very much guys, silly question but do the controllers come with power supplys or are these extra and what kind of amp's would I need to run a layout without any issues

[Nigelcliffe]

The three systems mentioned (Digitrax Chief radio duplex), Lenz LH100 and Gaugemaster (MRC) Prodigy are very different in capabilities.   So, which is "best" depends massively on what you hope to achieve with it.   Start from what you want to achieve, written out clearly, then go forwards assessing the capabilities of systems. 

 

As several have implied, all three are somewhat antique in their handset hardware design.  Look at and actually handle newer designs to get the differences - ESU ECoS, Uhlenbrock Daisy II,  (and the Piko when it eventually comes out).  

 

One of the three is wireless radio, that adds quite a bit to the price compared to the cabled version.  Maybe wireless is highly desirable, in which case you've identified your choice from the three (though there are cheaper ways to go wireless with smart-phones).     

 

Ranking the three depends massively on requirements at your end.  If you have any ambitions to link control panels, add computers (for signalling, track diagrams, or even automation), then I'd make the case for a particular very clear ranking of the three systems mentioned.    If you need to control two locos at the same time, one of them has certain clear advantages.    If you have a club/group using a particular type of kit that might bias the decision.

 

 

As for power supplies,  read the specification at the suppliers websites.  They should be clear as to what is included.      And, "what kind of amps" depends on "what kind of layout" - are we talking of a small spare room with a little N gauge, or a large barn crammed full of double-heading O gauge ?   Even in OO, the power depends on the locos being run. 

 

 

 

 

- Nigel

[Robbieb]

My plan is to do a bigish layout depending on room, with lots of stock and points, I'm going to try and get it all on the layout and get everything to work from the controller.

[Adrian Wintle]

3 lenz sets lol, must be good

 

There aren't a lot of Lenz users over here, so I pick up stuff when I get the chance. Two of the Set 100s were bought at significantly below retail (i.e. under a quarter of the price of a new one - in one case well under).

 

Adrian

[Nigelcliffe]

My plan is to do a bigish layout depending on room, with lots of stock and points, I'm going to try and get it all on the layout and get everything to work from the controller.

In which case, you need to think through how complicated the systems are to control turnouts. I'd suggest Lenz is the worst here with multiple key presses to access the relevant commands to throw a turnout. But, the exact combination of factors you require are key to getting a good system.

 

I'm trying to be helpful, but won't say "buy X because I own it and think its fab", or even "avoid Y because I personally don't like it". Getting to the features you want controlled by the DCC system, and how they will be controlled is key to getting a good system.

 

- Nigel

[leopardml2341]

An advantage(?) of the digitrax handset is that you effectively have two throttles in one handset, don't think that's been mentioned so far.

[Oldddudders]

The OP needs to understand what DCC does and doesn't do. At least one of your proposed systems supports over 100 locos in simultaneous use - but the human brain struggles to drive/control more than a couple! So running lots of trains at once, which is feasible if you have a beefy power supply, also relies uopn some sort of automation to avoid collisions etc. That software is available, but it adds cost and complexity.

 

I have been a Digitrax user for 18 years, currently use a DT402D, and it suits my walkaround layout design. Many people prefer a central console, and some systems major on that. Finally, for locos with European decoders, I do not entirely recommend Digitrax, because F2 is non-latching, being designated in the US for the whistle, which can be a pain if your loco has lights set for F2.

[Robbieb]

Would the prodigy advance 2 be a bad choice then? Is it possible to do everything one needs to do with this controller? Or might I be better with a console? Sorry for so many questions guys.

[Robbieb]

Sorry yes, I was going to use a control panel to do the points, I some how had the idea that it had something to do with the controller. Simple panel to do the points with switches.

[Robbieb]

Ok silly question, but, what do people look for in a controller when there buying one, I thought something with high amps but unsure of what else if I'm honest.

[Nigelcliffe]

Ok silly question, but, what do people look for in a controller when there buying one, I thought something with high amps but unsure of what else if I'm honest.

A controller which meets the stated needs. The "right" controller for a particular person depends on what they want to do with it. For some people, £150 on a PowerCab or Zephyr is the "right" controller. For others its completely the wrong thing, and won't do what they want.

 

High amps, why do you want them ? If you have locos which consume lots of power, then you need more power (amps) for those locos. But, otherwise, you've just made your equipment more expensive, chances of damaging things higher, and your wiring harder (a high amp system is less tolerant of slightly sub-standard wiring than a low-amp system).

 

You appear to want something which only controls locos, and you will control turnouts with a traditionally wired panel (though its taken a lot of posts to establish that detail).

So, of the systems mentioned above in the thread, any of them will work.  I'd suggest you start at the list from Dutch Master, unless there are other details which mean the larger/more expensive systems are more appropriate.    Which is "best" depends on other details, which is best in your hand (or on your desk), which is clearest to use for your needs (lots of functions on/off might be easier with some than others), etc.. etc...

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

Ok silly question, but, what do people look for in a controller when the're buying one...

 My priorities were firstly the documentation. Discarded several at this stage, just not competently authored.

 

Next, how the handset was in my hand. Cut and dice it anyway you like, if operation is a big thing for you, then an interface that falls under your hand so that you swiftly become 'unconsciouly competent' operating the trains with it is major asset.  (Knew already that I didn't want a console, walk around is so much nicer for largish layout operation; didn't want untethered handsets either, as I am the reigning undefeated Olympic, World and European champion in 'Losing the remote control freestyle'.)

 

And then reputation for reliability: this is important in what is a 'black box' system. It's good to know that if something doesn't work as expected, it is probably your own work that has to be examined, the system can be trusted to be performing correctly.

 

I went for the one with an excellent manual, with a light handset I can work single handed, leaving the other hand free for the shunting pole, cup of tea, whatever; and which has perfromed near daily for over 13 years without a single glitch. (Lenz. I don't think it rhymes with Benz by accident.)

[Robbieb]

Guys thank you very much and sorry for all the questions and dragging the thread out so long when I could have put everything in the first thread. Your help is much appreciated

[ColinK]

Another think to think about, for control of speed do you want buttons to press or a knob to turn?

 

Myself and operating team all prefer knobs to turn, the NCE PowerPro has both. While its not on your shortlist, my operating team all find the PowerPro very easy to use.

 

I do recommend you take your time and try the various systems, its a big investment so you want to make sure you make the choice that meeds your needs.

 

If you have never used DCC, you could try and pick up a secondhand Bachmann DCC controler of the type they supply with train sets. While they are very limited in what they do, one will give you a feel for running trains with DCC. I ran my layout at a couple of shows with one.

[shibushe]

Good idea from colinK Taking the plunge into DCC is not easy. You don't want to end up with something you don't like using.

As you have already seen by the replies all sorts of likes & dislikes.

If I were you I would try to get some hands on experience if you can. Digitrains & DCC Supplies, there may be others who will let you play with a number of command stations at your leisure without the confusing atmosphere of shows.

Of course the big question is Budget.