Castle Aching

[Edwardian]

No, more like this.

 

Fusilliers 1.jpg

 

However, a little lad and a band would be interesting.  The colour sergeant is pointing at his wife.  There will be a couple of men taking an early holiday he will be pointing at eventually.

 

Excellent.  The HaT Industrie Zulu War infantry.  Good figures.  I think I have some somewhere.

 

But shouldn't you stick spikes on the lids and portray the blue home service helmets?

 

You could cut the spikes of the helmets of some HaT WW1 infantry and glue them onto the British helmets.

 

Anyway, it's the Royal Welch Fusiliers.  If you are portraying this regiment, I suspect that bearskins would be appropriate, unless they were to wear an undress forage cap (blue peaked cap, red band), or side cap (not sure which at this date).  Is this why you went for the tropical service helmet?

 

I don't think the Fusiliers had campaigned overseas since the Ashanti Wars of the early 1870s, however. Their next outing was to be the Boer War.

 

As you may know, facing colours of all regiments went to white in the 1880s - very unpopular - but the colours were later restored.  I cannot remember the date, but they are probably back to their traditional blue, as you have them, by 1895.

 

As for the colour, this would either be a union flag (King's Colour) or a flag with a field in the facing colour (blue) (Regimental Colour).

 

You could introduce a great talking point were the recruiters to be accompanied by the Regimental mascot in the form of a Kashmir goat!

Edited February 2, 2017 by Edwardian

[Donw]

My god there are more details and livery to worry about with solders than with the railway.

 

Don

[Northroader]

I see the little lad has a goat for the mascot, nice touch for a Welsh line? The bunch in front with the blancoed bags? What are they? The drummer has the same kit, but not the rest of the band. Colour party, one seems to have a furled flag, but then slung rifles? First aiders? Rum looking puttees/ gaiters as well.

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_02_2017/post-25673-0-48831900-1486067013.jpg

Edited February 2, 2017 by Northroader

[Edwardian]

I see the little lad has a goat for the mascot, nice touch for a Welsh line? The bunch in front with the blancoed bags? What are they? The drummer has the same kit, but not the rest of the band. Colour party, one seems to have a furled flag, but then slung rifles? First aiders? Rum looking puttees/ gaiters as well.

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_02_2017/post-25673-0-48831900-1486067013.jpg

 

Well, they are captioned the South Wales Volunteer Brigade.  The regiment is not mentioned.  1907 seems rather late for them not to be in khaki.  I am no doubt wrong on this, but the webbing and pouches are reminiscent of the 1888 Slade Wallace pattern with the upward opening pouches, rather than the outward opening 1894 pattern pouches.  Quite possibly some later variant.  But it does lend them a rather old fashioned appearance.

 

I can only assume the goat as a mascot is a Welsh touch that apes the Royal Welch Fusiliers, who have had a goat on strength since 1844.

 

Anyway, most if not all,regular army county regiments had volunteer battalions by this date, and I have found a picture of the 2nd Volunteer Battalion of the Royal Welsh Fusiliers Band, at Conwy. The date is allegedly 1901, but I don't think that's possible given the presence of the officers in service dress.

Edited February 2, 2017 by Edwardian

[ChrisN]

Excellent.  The HaT Industrie Zulu War infantry.  Good figures.  I think I have some somewhere.

 

But shouldn't you stick spikes on the lids and portray the blue home service helmets?

 

You could cut the spikes of the helmets of some HaT WW1 infantry and glue them onto the British helmets.

 

Anyway, it's the Royal Welch Fusiliers.  If you are portraying this regiment, I suspect that bearskins would be appropriate, unless there were to wear an undress forage cap (blue peaked cap, red band).  Is this why you went for the tropical service helmet?

 

I don't think the Fusiliers had campaigned overseas since the Ashanti Wars of the early 1870s, however. Their next outing was to be the Boer War.

 

As you may know, facing colours of all regiments went to white in the 1880s - very unpopular - but the colours were later restored.  I cannot remember the date, but they are probably back to their traditional blue, as you have them, by 1895.

 

As for the colour, this would either be a union flag (King's Colour) or a flag with a field in the facing colour (blue) (Regimental Colour).

 

You could introduce a great talking point were the recruiters to be accompanied by the Regimental mascot in the form of a Kashmir goat!

 

It is a while since I painted these and spent many hours researching them.  Yes, Welch Fusiliers, I forgot.  I could change the hats but the tropical helmets look bigger than the home service hats.  If I could get a set of the old Airfix marching band that would be interesting and they have bearskins, but they do not appear very often and when they do are not cheap.  To be honest, trying to find soldiers who are made for battles to not be in action is quite difficult and these were the best I could do, so I thought they could don their old helmets to create a bit of a splash on market day in Traeth Mawr.  (Sheep are being unloaded at the station further down the road they are walking down.)  It also gives an excuse for a crowd, those who have not yet made it to the market where they have come from.

 

The annoying thing is that there is a company who are producing Romans marching, and I see now Highlanders.  Later sets would be useful.

 

Now a goat, that would be interesting.  I wonder if Preiser do one.

 

I spent so long painting them I moved on before I did the flag.  Of course I never bookmarked my searches, they were on an older laptop anyway, and neither saved the pictures so yours are very helpful.  They are just brilliant, thank you.

[ChrisN]

My god there are more details and livery to worry about with solders than with the railway.

 

Don

 

Don,

Someone once said that model railway modellers worried about buildings but did not care about the people on the railway, whereas wargammers did not care about buildings but if the man third from the left on the fourth row back had a feather the wrong colour............

[phil_sutters]

Well, they are captioned the South Wales Volunteer Brigade.  The regiment is not mentioned.  1907 seems rather late for them not to be in khaki.  I am no doubt wrong on this, but the webbing and pouches are reminiscent of the 1888 Slade Wallace pattern with the upward opening pouches, rather than the outward opening 1894 pattern pouches.  Quite possibly some later variant.  But it does lend them a rather old fashioned appearance.

 

I can only assume the goat as a mascot is a Welsh touch that apes the Royal Welch Fusiliers, who have had a goat on strength since 1844.

 

Anyway, most if not all,regular army county regiments had volunteer battalions by this date, and I have found a picture of the 2nd Volunteer Battalion of the Royal Welsh Fusiliers Band, at Conwy. The date is allegedly 1901, but I don't think that's possible given the presence of the officers in service dress.

The SWVB picture probably illustrates the use of older uniforms by volunteer brigades. The white haversacks, with their triangular, single button flaps can be seen with 1882 equipment and are similar to ones used ever since the Napoleonic wars. What fascinates me about that photo is the way the trombonist appears to be wearing a rolled blanket, diagonally across his chest - again a rather old-fashioned throw-back. The drummer has more webbing than the rest of the band, as he has to carry the heavy bass drum. The rest of the band's white webbing can be seen in places, but is generally narrower as they may well have only had to carry music cases or pouches.

The Welsh version of the Regiment's name was the official use during the Boer War and WW1, being changed back to Welch in 1920. Of course the Regiment itself did not approve of the less distinctive and traditional name.

Poking about in the military uniform sites I became aware how often Osprey and Fosten uniform plates appear, in my view clearly breaching copyright, as their publication dates can only have started in the 1960s, at the earliest, and also how entangled the sites are with Pinterest in far too many cases.

Edited February 3, 2017 by phil_sutters

[Edwardian]

It is a while since I painted these and spent many hours researching them.  Yes, Welch Fusiliers, I forgot.  I could change the hats but the tropical helmets look bigger than the home service hats.  If I could get a set of the old Airfix marching band that would be interesting and they have bearskins, but they do not appear very often and when they do are not cheap.  To be honest, trying to find soldiers who are made for battles to not be in action is quite difficult and these were the best I could do, so I thought they could don their old helmets to create a bit of a splash on market day in Traeth Mawr.  (Sheep are being unloaded at the station further down the road they are walking down.)  It also gives an excuse for a crowd, those who have not yet made it to the market where they have come from.

 

The annoying thing is that there is a company who are producing Romans marching, and I see now Highlanders.  Later sets would be useful.

 

Now a goat, that would be interesting.  I wonder if Preiser do one.

 

I spent so long painting them I moved on before I did the flag.  Of course I never bookmarked my searches, they were on an older laptop anyway, and neither saved the pictures so yours are very helpful.  They are just brilliant, thank you.

 

You are quite right that the home service helmet is different and smaller. Given that, the RWF are an easier proposition; I am not sure figures exist with anything resembling the home service helmet, but, as you say, Airfix once made Guardsmen with bearskins (as, I think, might Langley), and they are not impossible to find, though a reasonable price takes patience: http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_odkw=HaT+1+72&_sop=1&_osacat=2631&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.XAirfix+Guards+Colour+Party.TRS0&_nkw=Airfix+Guards+Colour+Party&_sacat=2631

 

However, I suspect that, off the parade ground, it would be quite legitimate for some or all of your party to wear side caps, I believe known as glengarrys.  This is the cap worn by your drummer (yes, I know he has a bugle, not a drum, but he is nevertheless the "drummer"!). So, if it were me, I might well use some more of these heads.  This has the advantage that there would be no compatibility issues between body and replacement head.

 

I can quite understand that you may not wish to make any changes now to the figures.

 

But, I reckon that, with a very sharp scalpel used carefully, you could detach your heads above the collar with minimum damage to you excellent paint job.  New heads are best pinned and glued, I have found. 

 

Thanks to Phil, query whether you are Welsh or Welch in 1895 - I never knew that it had changed for a period.

 

As for the colour, I would be tempted to make it one of the regimental colours, perhaps from one of the volunteer battalions,  They varied in detail. 

 

Wiki has a good image of the Regimental Colour of the 6th (Caernarvonshire and Anglesey) Battalion, Royal Welch Fusiliers (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Welch_Fusiliers#/media/File:Colour_of_the_Royal_Welch_Fusiliers.jpg).  The battle honours slightly post-date your period, as mentioned are "South Africa", "Ladysmith" and "Peking".  Apropos my earlier comment about overseas service, I note "Ashante 1873-4", but also "Burma 1885-87".

[ChrisN]

You are quite right that the home service helmet is different and smaller. Given that, the RWF are an easier proposition; I am not sure figures exist with anything resembling the home service helmet, but, as you say, Airfix once made Guardsmen with bearskins (as, I think, might Langley), and they are not impossible to find, though a reasonable price takes patience: http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_odkw=HaT+1+72&_sop=1&_osacat=2631&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.XAirfix+Guards+Colour+Party.TRS0&_nkw=Airfix+Guards+Colour+Party&_sacat=2631

 

However, I suspect that, off the parade ground, it would be quite legitimate for some or all of your party to wear side caps, I believe known as glengarrys.  This is the cap worn by your drummer (yes, I know he has a bugle, not a drum, but he is nevertheless the "drummer"!). So, if it were me, I might well use some more of these heads.  This has the advantage that there would be no compatibility issues between body and replacement head.

 

I can quite understand that you may not wish to make any changes now to the figures.

 

But, I reckon that, with a very sharp scalpel used carefully, you could detach your heads above the collar with minimum damage to you excellent paint job.  New heads are best pinned and glued, I have found. 

 

Thanks to Phil, query whether you are Welsh or Welch in 1895 - I never knew that it had changed for a period.

 

As for the colour, I would be tempted to make it one of the regimental colours, perhaps from one of the volunteer battalions,  They varied in detail. 

 

Wiki has a good image of the Regimental Colour of the 6th (Caernarvonshire and Anglesey) Battalion, Royal Welch Fusiliers (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Welch_Fusiliers#/media/File:Colour_of_the_Royal_Welch_Fusiliers.jpg).  The battle honours slightly post-date your period, as mentioned are "South Africa", "Ladysmith" and "Peking".  Apropos my earlier comment about overseas service, I note "Ashante 1873-4", but also "Burma 1885-87".

 

Thank you.  I will think about the heads, which I have done on other models, but not for a while as I have other matters to attend to.  The flag is probably the type, or the one I was going to use.  I need to photoshop it to fit the plastic flag but it is workable.  The Lt-colonel, I assume he is not a full colonel as this is a battalion, although he could be I suppose, is Viscount Dydraeth who first saw service in the Crimea so being in charge of a volunteer battalion would probably not be out of order.

[Fenman]

Another quick Royal interlude...

 

I drove past the former M&GN station at Hillington today which set my mind wandering. As we know, the GER built a very swanky station at Wolferton to service Royal needs at Sandringham. The M&GN lines arrived later, and the company hoped to grab a share of the prestigious Royal traffic - hence the name board at Hillington reading "Hillington for Sandringham"; the two stations were roughly equidistant from the House.

 

Save for GER line closures due to flooding, the royals stuck with Wolferton. But it is rumoured that the Prince of Wales used Hillington to ship his assorted mistresses down from London (the station was much lower-key than Wolferton).

 

So I guess you do have options: including a formal Royal and military presence a la Wolferton, or a set of rather gamey and - I was going to write "over-dressed", but possibly I mean under-dressed - Edwardian trollops and floozies hanging hopefully around.

 

Interesting options.

 

Paul

[Nearholmer]

'Cat's Bottom' station, on the Wolfingham Branch, would be ideally situated for the more discreet sort of visitor. Arrival after dark; met by a closed coach; long cloak, with the hood up; that sort of thing. Such a person might lodge at the Shepherd's Bay hotel between visits.

 

Now, can I ask militarymodellers a question? How do you chaps "do" flags?

 

After a long hunt, I've got hold of a tinplate model of the armistice coach, and am intent upon making a set of flags to position at the end of it.

 

Many years ago, when I sat at one side of the dining table, building airfix kit trains, my youngest bro used to sit opposite, making airfix kit military figures (1/16 scale??), and they came with water slide transfers to fit onto pre-shaped flags, but that surely can't be the answer here. Plasticard and a hair-dryer? Paper? Bent tinplate - but then, how could I paint them?

 

Any suggestions will be gratefully received.

 

(Googling 'model flag' simply gets pictures of various tanned torsos, M & F, draped in ..... er ..... flags)

 

K

Edited February 3, 2017 by Nearholmer

[webbcompound]

Now, can I ask militarymodellers a question? How do you chaps "do" flags?

 

Any suggestions will be gratefully received.

 

 

K

 I paint a large scale version of the flag (as large as you like) on paper, scan it, then print it out vastly reduced onto ordinary paper (gives better definition and detail than if you paint it actual size). Obviously both sides and the bit round the pole as a single unit. The flag is then glued, wrapped round the pole, and as the glue dries (or after, depends on the glue) the flag can be folded in whatever draped or flying folds you desire. No need to muck about with transfers, melting plastic or anything like that. There are various sites for wargamers that have flags ready made for you to print out (free of charge!) but they are mostly not from the periods we model as taking the colours onto the field had stopped by the time of most modeller's railways.The photos are some flags made the way I describe (though not my design) for the 1/45th Regimernt in the Peninsular War (railway stuff on workbench shows I am bona-fide and not a purely wargaming infiltrator!), plus some Neapolitan flags of 1806 from one of the free sites to show how they should be drawn.These would be printed out 8mm square in 4mm/foot scale

 

Edited February 3, 2017 by webbcompound

[Nearholmer]

Brilliant, thank you; paper they shall be!

 

K

[Northroader]

If you're printing out flags off the computer, allow for fading. I've been doing coats of flat varnish, but I see there's a uv varnish been mentioned which I'm now after.

[Edwardian]

 

 

 

P2030995.jpgP2030997.jpgnaples 1806 flags.gif

Another quick Royal interlude...

I drove past the former M&GN station at Hillington today which set my mind wandering. As we know, the GER built a very swanky station at Wolferton to service Royal needs at Sandringham. The M&GN lines arrived later, and the company hoped to grab a share of the prestigious Royal traffic - hence the name board at Hillington reading "Hillington for Sandringham"; the two stations were roughly equidistant from the House.

Save for GER line closures due to flooding, the royals stuck with Wolferton. But it is rumoured that the Prince of Wales used Hillington to ship his assorted mistresses down from London (the station was much lower-key than Wolferton).

So I guess you do have options: including a formal Royal and military presence a la Wolferton, or a set of rather gamey and - I was going to write "over-dressed", but possibly I mean under-dressed - Edwardian trollops and floozies hanging hopefully around.

Interesting options.

Paul

 

I like this idea.

 

It sort of ties in with further Yeomanry manoeuvrings.  The Yeomanry had to concentrate its dispersed elements by rail for some ceremonial duties as well as for camp.  Not all depots were near GE metals.

 

I quote:

 

... the King expressed a wish that the King's Own Yeomanry should find a mounted escort to Their Majesties the King and Queen, and Their Royal Highnesses the Duke and Duchess of York from Wolverton [sic] Station to Sandringham on 4 November 1901 ... Many of the men had been collected from the most distant ends of the County ... the Midland and Great Northern Joint Railway ran special trains for their convenience from Norwich, Yarmouth and Cromer to Hillington where they detrained for a little preliminary drill in the park of Sir William Ffoulkes.  From Hillington to Wolverton [sic] they travelled by road.  

 

 

'Cat's Bottom' station, on the Wolfingham Branch, would be ideally situated for the more discreet sort of visitor. Arrival after dark; met by a closed coach; long cloak, with the hood up; that sort of thing. Such a person might lodge at the Shepherd's Bay hotel between visits.

Now, can I ask militarymodellers a question? How do you chaps "do" flags?

After a long hunt, I've got hold of a tinplate model of the armistice coach, and am intent upon making a set of flags to position at the end of it.

Many years ago, when I sat at one side of the dining table, building airfix kit trains, my youngest bro used to sit opposite, making airfix kit military figures (1/16 scale??), and they came with water slide transfers to fit onto pre-shaped flags, but that surely can't be the answer here. Plasticard and a hair-dryer? Paper? Bent tinplate - but then, how could I paint them?

Any suggestions will be gratefully received.

(Googling 'model flag' simply gets pictures of various tanned torsos, M & F, draped in ..... er ..... flags)

K

 

 

 I paint a large scale version of the flag (as large as you like) on paper, scan it, then print it out vastly reduced onto ordinary paper (gives better definition and detail than if you paint it actual size). Obviously both sides and the bit round the pole as a single unit. The flag is then glued, wrapped round the pole, and as the glue dries (or after, depends on the glue) the flag can be folded in whatever draped or flying folds you desire. No need to muck about with transfers, melting plastic or anything like that. There are various sites for wargamers that have flags ready made for you to print out (free of charge!) but they are mostly not from the periods we model as taking the colours onto the field had stopped by the time of most modeller's railways.The photos are some flags made the way I describe (though not my design) for the 1/45th Regimernt in the Peninsular War (railway stuff on workbench shows I am bona-fide and not a purely wargaming infiltrator!), plus some Neapolitan flags of 1806 from one of the free sites to show how they should be drawn.These would be printed out 8mm square in 4mm/foot scale

 

P2030995.jpgP2030997.jpgnaples 1806 flags.gif

 

Cat's Bottom for introducing Floosies.  All very Scandal in Bohemia ...

 

I am very impressed with WebbCompound's flag technique and his work generally.

 

When I was younger, so much younger than today, I dabbled in 20mm Napoleonics.  I, too, painted my own flags on paper, but, not having the use of internet, computers or printers, I, did them scale-sixe.

 

I'll see if I can find some over the weekend and, if so, post some pictures.

[webbcompound]

 

When I was younger, so much younger than today, I dabbled in 20mm Napoleonics.

 

 As did I, though my figures are long gone. The new ones are all plastic (these are HaT), and like the railway are a case of second childhood AKA retirement. And thanks for the kind words. I hope my railway stuff is also up to scratch when I eventually reveal it to the adoring crowds/jeering mob on the Pre-grouping strand

[Donw]

I think the Langley goat comes with the set of  troops. 0 gaugers can get a goat or two from Duncan Models which may be where mine came from. In 0 scale bits of ground tend to be on the small side a goat looks at home in a small space.

Duncan Models also do some 0 gauge field guns among other delights the Ford Model T Hearse offers an alternative crowd scene to a wedding

 

Don

[ChrisN]

Langleys do lots of mascots but they do not have a picture of the Royal Welsh Fusiliers one, and it is 54mm anyway.  However, Dart Castings do make a goat.  Would the Norfolk Yeomanry have a mascot?

[Nearholmer]

A stuffed dodo, mounted on small wheels?

[teaky]

A stuffed dodo, mounted on small wheels?

Turkey, surely?

[Edwardian]

 As did I, though my figures are long gone. The new ones are all plastic (these are HaT), and like the railway are a case of second childhood AKA retirement. And thanks for the kind words. I hope my railway stuff is also up to scratch when I eventually reveal it to the adoring crowds/jeering mob on the Pre-grouping strand

 

You have done a lovely job, there.  I had to paint up lots of WW2 20mm stuff for my son some years back.  That did lead to a second childhood moment when I decided to paint something for myself in the form of early WW1 figures (HaT).  Since then, I have been tempted to paint HaT's Victorian Naval Brigade figures.

 

So far, I have yet to re-visit my the Napoleonic period. Perhaps I should.  I have to dig out some of my first childhood efforts.  These are from the days before I discovered dry-brushing, so are pretty toy soldier-like, but I did at least hand-paint the flags!

 

 

Langleys do lots of mascots but they do not have a picture of the Royal Welsh Fusiliers one, and it is 54mm anyway.  However, Dart Castings do make a goat.  Would the Norfolk Yeomanry have a mascot?

 

I think the Dart Castings goat  fits your bill perfectly.

 

So far as I have read, the Norfolk Yeomanry did not have a mascot.  I cannot immediately think of a Yeomanry unit that did, but it is possible.

[ChrisN]

You have done a lovely job, there.  I had to paint up lots of WW2 20mm stuff for my son some years back.  That did lead to a second childhood moment when I decided to paint something for myself in the form of early WW1 figures (HaT).  Since then, I have been tempted to paint HaT's Victorian Naval Brigade figures.

 

So far, I have yet to re-visit my the Napoleonic period. Perhaps I should.  I have to dig out some of my first childhood efforts.  These are from the days before I discovered dry-brushing, so are pretty toy soldier-like, but I did at least hand-paint the flags!

 

 

 

I think the Dart Castings goat  fits your bill perfectly.

 

So far as I have read, the Norfolk Yeomanry did not have a mascot.  I cannot immediately think of a Yeomanry unit that did, but it is possible.

 

When I wargame I always prefer the Napoleonic period.  My eldest son made up some rules for fighting with cavalry but we did not right them down, so we forgot them. 

 

My youngest and I have a campaign going.  We use the OS map of Minehead area.  It bhas been in abeyance since before he left home, over four years ago but at Christmas he said he would like to start it up again.  I am not sure what his wife would say about that though.

[Edwardian]

When I wargame I always prefer the Napoleonic period.  My eldest son made up some rules for fighting with cavalry but we did not right them down, so we forgot them. 

 

My youngest and I have a campaign going.  We use the OS map of Minehead area.  It bhas been in abeyance since before he left home, over four years ago but at Christmas he said he would like to start it up again.  I am not sure what his wife would say about that though.

 

Interesting.

 

I'd like to have a go at some Napoleonic war-gaming.

 

My problem is that it is the look of the thing that interests me most and I reckon that if you want a base full of figures to give the impression of a battalion, you need around 30 of them, but a 1:20 figure ratio is very figure heavy. 

 

Thanks to HaT and some others (really like the Strelets marching Highlanders, an improvement on their past efforts and perfect for Waterloo), it is affordable, but finding the time to paint them ....

[Caley Jim]

Turkey, surely?

And a boo'iful one at that!

 

Jim

[webbcompound]

So far as I have read, the Norfolk Yeomanry did not have a mascot.  I cannot immediately think of a Yeomanry unit that did, but it is possible.

The problem with a yeomanry mascot is that it would have to keep up with the horses, as well as being easy to lead on horseback (or perhaps ride?) Very little in the way of domestic animals would suit, but if they had served abroad at any in in their history they might have an exotic foreign animal in commemoration. A lama perhaps, or a giraffe? A camel would be too disruptive.

Edited February 4, 2017 by webbcompound