Fat Lieutenant Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 Sending out the best men in the worse kit, that's the MoD. Don't get me started .... ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Carew Too Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 Thus we circle round to entraining cavalry. Eventually. By way of titles for General Managers. Bill King's GERS Journal article (quoted above) said that knighthoods were rare for General Managers. Might he be understood to mean "at the time"? William Birt was knighted in 1897. Picking up on Poggy's point, how many of the knights mentioned were knighted later, and for how many of these might war service have been a factor? By the way, Gooch, I would say, is an exceptional case. Funnily enough, in the same Journal edition as the Birt article is an article on the GE's role in the mobilisation of 1914. This has some details of the "sort of committee of railway managers that worked on the strategic organisation plans for the railways in the event of war". And, yes, the work was voluntary, and so, may have been recognised by the honours system. War planning started at an early period, and really picks up at the time we were nervous of French invasion and the Volunteer Rifle movement was in full swing. In January 1865 the Engineers and Railway Volunteer Staff Corps (ERVS) was formed, and, by 1866 there was a 311-page time-table for special troop trains to show for it. By 1905, annual revisions were instituted, and in November 1912 the general managers of leading railway companies were asked to form the Railway Executive Committee under the President of the Board of Trade. As to military rank, the Territorial and Reserve Forces Act 1907 (we came across this earlier as the legislation that created the Territorial Army into which the Yeomanry and Rifle Volunteers were subsumed) provided for the ERVS to became part of the TA as the Engineer and Railway Staff Corps and, accordingly, military rank was conferred upon the senior railway staff involved (Lt. Cols and Majors). The practical application takes us back to the question I raised earlier about cavalry entraining horses in cattle wagons. The article gives many examples of GE military trains in 1914. Numbers of horses are given, expressed to be moved by "x cattle wagons and Y brakes" (generally 2 brakes). It is not clear from the article whether some horses were accommodated in the brakes, but it strikes me as highly unlikely that horses were put in passenger brake vans. For one thing, I imagine that there would be plenty of kit to accommodate in the baggage compartments, such as the tack, and for another, I don't suppose the GE wanted to be left mucking out baggage compartments!. On this basis, I have simply divided the horses conveyed per train by the number of cattle wagons utilised in order to determine the average number of horses per cattle wagon (given in parenthesis): - 112 horses in 16 cattle wagons (7) - 85 horses in 12 cattle wagons (7) - 55 horses in 8 cattle wagons (6.8) - 100 horses in 14 cattle wagons (7.14), in two trains - 140 horses in 20 cattle wagons (7) - 9 Officer's chargers in 3 horse boxes (3), and 84 troop horses in 12 cattle wagons (7) (cavalry) - 6 Officer's chargers in 2 horse boxes (3), and 86 troop horses in 13 cattle wagons (6.6) (cavalry) - 144 horses in 21 cattle wagons (6.8) (horse artillery) Now, it is possible, I suppose, that for peace-time manoeuvres the horses were not packed so tight, but these trains were planned in advance, so peace-time planners clearly had no problem with this number of beasts per vehicle. So, now we know, 7 troop horses per cattle wagon. If we assume a single peace-time Yeomanry Troop travelling in its own train, either because it needs to concentrate for training or because it is at CA for Royal escort duty, we can assume no more than 20 ORs (full establishment of a regular cavalry troop being 30), and, thus, 1 horse box (officer's charger) and 3 cattle wagons. In terms of carriages, you might get away with a single composite, say 2 Third Class compartments, perhaps SNCOs & WOs in a Second Class compartment and a First Class compartment for the officer(s). I would suggest a formation thus: GE Locomotive (No.1 Class/T26 or Y14 (passenger braked)) / GE Brake Composite (6-wheel) or Brake Third and Composite (4-wheel) / GE Horse Box / GE Cattle Wagon / GE Cattle Wagon / GE Cattle Wagon / GE Full Brake Problem solved! Of course, this gets me thinking of how cavalry was conveyed by Indian Broad Gauge. Fascinating stuff! 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Northroader Posted February 10, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 10, 2017 Some time back, I encountered a JL lookalike in a Gurkha officers uniform at an armed services get together in WB. Honestly! She was totally....... lost in recollections...ahhh. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwardian Posted February 10, 2017 Author Share Posted February 10, 2017 Sorry, I'm still having a moment .... 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwealleans Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 Take all the time you need. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold ianLMS Posted February 10, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 10, 2017 This forum topic never ceases to amaze me. I pop out for a few days and the conversation has turned completely and has gone from railways to military cavalry statistics and from absolutely nowhere, the delightful Joanna Lumley make an appearance!!!! Glad to see the topic is heading in the right, upwardly direction!!!!. It must be a generation thing though - when Northroader mentioned "JL", I immediately jumped to Jennifer Lawrence or Jennifer Lopez, not Joanna Lumley!! 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Londontram Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 It must be a generation thing though - when Northroader mentioned "JL", I immediately jumped to Jennifer Lawrence or Jennifer Lopez, not Joanna Lumley!! You are young but you will learn - there's still time Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwardian Posted February 10, 2017 Author Share Posted February 10, 2017 I immediately jumped to Jennifer Lawrence or Jennifer Lopez, Who? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 ianLMS, I think it's a former-soldier thing. Any self-respecting former railwayman knows that the only letter that follows J is A. K Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium TheQ Posted February 10, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 10, 2017 I thought it was R, as In, Midland and South Western Junction Railway..... 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwardian Posted February 10, 2017 Author Share Posted February 10, 2017 Any self-respecting former railwayman knows that the only letter that follows J is A. Joseph Armstrong? Kinky Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium uax6 Posted February 10, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 10, 2017 See it is an age thing, instead of the legend that is Jenny A, I think more in terms of Michaela Strachan, Philippa Forrester, and Claudia Winkleperson.... I may be gone some time....... Andy G Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwardian Posted February 10, 2017 Author Share Posted February 10, 2017 See it is an age thing, instead of the legend that is Jenny A, I think more in terms of Michaela Strachan, Philippa Forrester, and Claudia Winkleperson.... I may be gone some time....... Andy G Oh, that JA? Excuse me, I have to have another moment .... No idea about the others mentioned. 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 Is some modified version of Godwin's Law operative on model railway forums (fora?)? K Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwardian Posted February 10, 2017 Author Share Posted February 10, 2017 (edited) Is some modified version of Godwin's Law operative on model railway forums (fora?)? K Well, maybe, but in our case the inevitable destination is a good deal more fragrant. Edited February 10, 2017 by Edwardian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Londontram Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 Oh, that JA? Excuse me, I have to have another moment .... No idea about the others mentioned. That picture of Jenny A is from Riddle of the sands just watched it on TV yesterday brilliant film, a classic British boys own style ripping yarn Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 There is a film of RotS? With JA in it??!!! Why wasn't I told??? It doesn't have a section showing feldbahnen, followed by a segment containing lingering pictures of various cheeses, accompanied by crusty bread and cider, does it? Oh, and pyramids? If it had ALL of those things, it would probably become my favourite film. K Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Londontram Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 Don't get to excited boys she kept her clothes on in this one Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwardian Posted February 10, 2017 Author Share Posted February 10, 2017 That picture of Jenny A is from Riddle of the sands just watched it on TV yesterday brilliant film, a classic British boys own style ripping yarn Correctomundo! Which is part of the reason why I chose it (it's in period), and, should Davies & Carruthers have failed, no doubt the Norfolk Yeomanry would be deploying to resist an invasion by men also dressed in blue and wearing spikey hats. So yes, JA was Clara Dollmann. There is a film of RotS? With JA in it??!!! Why wasn't I told??? It doesn't have a section showing feldbahnen, followed by a segment containing lingering pictures of various cheeses, accompanied by crusty bread and cider, does it? Oh, and pyramids? If it had ALL of those things, it would probably become my favourite film. K You've been told now; go forth and watch it! 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwardian Posted February 10, 2017 Author Share Posted February 10, 2017 Don't get to excited boys she kept her clothes on in this one It's official: You are now the lowest common denominator. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Northroader Posted February 10, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 10, 2017 There was a sort of disused brickworks thingy which might / might not have a German sort of decauville whatnot carrying bricks to an undisclosed place which could have been a squarish shaped conical doodah. Oh, and they were eating a lot of beer and sausages while they were getting all these folks packed into a barge stuck in the mud of the salt marshes and our Jenny was the deeply misunderstood daughter of some bounder, but in the end she went off with the hero character with the implication of a good lathering to follow. It's great when you can spoil the story for folks who have no intention of watching it, don't you agree? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwardian Posted February 10, 2017 Author Share Posted February 10, 2017 (edited) There was a sort of disused brickworks thingy which might / might not have a German sort of decauville whatnot carrying bricks to an undisclosed place which could have been a squarish shaped conical doodah. Oh, and they were eating a lot of beer and sausages while they were getting all these folks packed into a barge stuck in the mud of the salt marshes and our Jenny was the deeply misunderstood daughter of some bounder, but in the end she went off with the hero character with the implication of a good lathering to follow. It's great when you can spoil the story for folks who have no intention of watching it, don't you agree? "I say, Carruthers, I swear that that fellow just poured the milk in the cup first! The Absolute Bounder!" Edited February 10, 2017 by Edwardian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold phil_sutters Posted February 10, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 10, 2017 "I say, Carruthers, I swear that that fellow just poured the milk in the cup first! The Absolute Bounder!" It's the beginning of the slippery slope! By the '20s everyone just got far too casual! Three generations on and there's instant coffee in the pantry! 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill_J Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 (edited) If we went back forty years or so from our period to another famous picnic as depicted by a rather scandalous french-man named Edouard Manet, the twenties might seem quite decorous. I remember a pantry from my childhood, it was quite as cold as a fridge, IIRC the only "instant" cofee we kept there was. Edited February 10, 2017 by Bill_J 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium nick_bastable Posted February 10, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 10, 2017 If we went back forty years or so from our period to another famous picnic as depicted by a rather scandalous french-man named Edouard Manet, the twenties might seem quite decorous. I remember a pantry from my childhood, it was quite as cold as a fridge, IIRC the only "instant" cofee we kept there was. [attachment=806649:Camp.jpg foul stuff next your be taking sugar in Tea Nick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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