Castle Aching

[TheQ]

1 hour ago, Donw said:

I had a brief stay at Prinash Abbey where the church is arranged such that the monks are not in view of any lay persons attending. The singing of the monks particularly in the evening service when it was dark outside was most atmospheric. The singing was abviously full of passion but with no view of the monks it did feel like a heavenly choir.

 

Don

This was a standard thing when we had monasteries everywhere, often they had separate adjoining church "halls". The monks didn't want their minds polluted by viewing parishioners during services.. Many surviving churches that were part of a monastery have slightly odd layouts as the parishioners were allowed to choose which bit they wanted to keep... for a fee of course..

[Edwardian]

9 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

"Our" presumes continuity of belief. One thing "we" didn't do was to attempt to Christianise the moths of the year or the days of the week*, which are stubbornly pre-Christian in romance, germanic, and slavonic languages. I hope we all had a Jovial time on Thor's day but now we should be of a more amorous disposition, it being Freya's Day today (despite yesterday's reports to the contrary). Which conveniently takes us back to @Edwardian's landlord and Edwardian social tensions.

 

*The French Revolution failed on this point too.

 

Sadly, so far as I'm aware, my landlord doesn't look anything like that.

 

Anyway, this is County Durham at the foot of the moors, and she should wrap up at this time of year or she'll likely catch her death of cold. 

[Compound2632]

2 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

Often, understanding why you think and feel as you do is halfway to the cure!  

 

There can be instances were the cure is undesirable; this particular one may be such.

 

But the Directors of the WNR, be they ever so low church, aren't going to turn their noses up at a train-load of Brummagen Irish Catholic excursionists. Besides, everyone needs a jolly day out from time to time (vide the Anarchist-Communists).

 

5 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

 

Sadly, so far as I'm aware, my landlord doesn't look anything like that.

 

Anyway, this is County Durham at the foot of the moors, and she should wrap up at this time of year or she'll likely catch her death of cold. 

 

She was on the Costa del Sol or some such at the time.

 

A Polish friend of mine lived in Spennymoor for a couple of years when he was a post-doc at Durham. He has never got over the winter attire of the locals, whether it be his neighbour out in his vest washing his car on a Sunday morning, or the neighbour's daughter going out on the town on a Saturday night.

[Edwardian]

23 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

But the Directors of the WNR, be they ever so low church, aren't going to turn their noses up at a train-load of Brummagen Irish Catholic excursionists. Besides, everyone needs a jolly day out from time to time (vide the Anarchist-Communists).

 

 

Yes, they should not be denied (besides which, there's precious little regular traffic on the Wolfringham branch)

 

I suggest that the Directors of the WNR tend to be High Church Anglicans, and, I daresay, this suggests that most are Tories. This is important, as, with the support of the High Church Bishops of Norwich, it allowed the early adoption of Sunday trains on the WNR.

 

The Rokewoods of Aching Hall (Lord Erstwhile), I've always had down as Whigs, however. They're hoping to return the Liberal candidate to Parliament next year (1906).

 

Quote

 

A Polish friend of mine lived in Spennymoor 

 

What, Poland not bleak enough for him?

 

23 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

He has never got over the winter attire of the locals, whether it be his neighbour out in his vest washing his car on a Sunday morning, or the neighbour's daughter going out on the town on a Saturday night.

 

It's they way those girls don't even get goose pimples; and you'd certainly be able to tell if they did.

 

Some winters, last year, for instance, while those in more southerly climes shiver and give themselves "snow days" (what, here every day's a bl00dy snow day, get on wi' it!), we don't even get our 'big coats' out.  

 

 

 

Edited November 22, 2019 by Edwardian

[Compound2632]

7 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

What, Poland not bleak enough for him?

 

 

Bleakness of the funding opportunities in atomic physics...

[Regularity]

9 hours ago, Malcolm 0-6-0 said:

We were lucky in Australia - we only got the criminals

I think most of them were hardly that: just poor people trying to survive rounded up to provide a workforce in taming a new wilderness, as it was seen.

 

I have heard it said that if you speak with a cockney accent (where most deportees came from) through clenched teeth (Botany Bay was an unpleasant swamp) you get close to the Australian accent*. If that's true, it goes to show how much history is hidden in plain sight.

 

*I know that nowadays teeth are only clenched when losing at cricket or Rugby to England, but accents are modified over time by the influence of the sounds we hear.

[St Enodoc]

50 minutes ago, Regularity said:

I think most of them were hardly that: just poor people trying to survive rounded up to provide a workforce in taming a new wilderness, as it was seen.

 

I have heard it said that if you speak with a cockney accent (where most deportees came from) through clenched teeth (Botany Bay was an unpleasant swamp) you get close to the Australian accent*. If that's true, it goes to show how much history is hidden in plain sight.

 

*I know that nowadays teeth are only clenched when losing at cricket or Rugby to England, but accents are modified over time by the influence of the sounds we hear.

I may have mentioned this before, but having been brought up in London with an accent to match, when I moved to Scotland a number of folk thought I was Australian - which, given that I now am, is quite ironic.

[runs as required]

It's fun being a church bell ringer because you are not expected to be a believer, au contraire, you are collectively all assumed to be troublesome drunks - usually with an external stair turret connecting back to the adjacent pub (where you can devise more complex interacting 'methods' of ringing the 8 bells)

I enjoy overhearing the Trollopean politics of the Anglican church

NW Durham is suffering dwindling congregations and a crop of retiring clergy.It appears aspiring Anglican curates will baulk at venturing further north to a living than about Banbury/Rutland

So we consider ourselves very fortunate to have attracted  a lady who will move north to minister to two adjacent parishes with churches with Bell towers. My friend the Churchwarden with tne other tower reports the new vicar's husband is a full time mature student, a keen bell ringer and rail enthusiast who wanted to check the parsonage bungalow garage as a hobby  (railway?) room!!
dh

 

 

Edited November 22, 2019 by runs as required

[Regularity]

7 minutes ago, runs as required said:

Banbury/Rutland

Quite a range, essentially covering nearly all of Northamptonshire, which is aligned SW/NE, and they are roughly 50 miles apart (using Oakham as the centre of Rutland)

[Edwardian]

1 hour ago, Regularity said:

I think most of them were hardly that: just poor people trying to survive rounded up to provide a workforce in taming a new wilderness, as it was seen.

 

I have heard it said that if you speak with a cockney accent (where most deportees came from) through clenched teeth (Botany Bay was an unpleasant swamp) you get close to the Australian accent*. If that's true, it goes to show how much history is hidden in plain sight.

 

*I know that nowadays teeth are only clenched when losing at cricket or Rugby to England, but accents are modified over time by the influence of the sounds we hear.

 

The Australians arriving in the Dardenelles in 1915 were a revelation to the Brits. 

 

The British army was struggling with the effects of, by then, a century of intense urbanisation upon the recruitment pool.  The products of manufacturing towns, damp and unsanitary slum dwellings, coal dust and smoke, were found to be very far from those "good yeoman whose limbs were made in England".  

 

By contrast the Aussies were noted by an English officer as taller, fitter and healthier; bronzed giants who - and here's the relevant bit - spoke in a sort of cockney accent.  All of this had been entirely unexpected by those who had never left the "Mother Country".

[Regularity]

Didn't Sydney Smith, late Dean of St. Pauls, once make the ironic observation that the best thing a poor cockney could do to improve his prospects, was to be caught stealing a loaf of bread? Assuming he survived the journey and a number of years of penal servitude, he would then get a small land grant.

[runs as required]

39 minutes ago, Regularity said:

Quite a range, essentially covering nearly all of Northamptonshire, which is aligned SW/NE, and they are roughly 50 miles apart (using Oakham as the centre of Rutland)

In my head that North facing  scarp of the ironstone (between the GWR and the GNR at Little Bytham) herds the Estuary English all together in the bottom righthand corner,

 

The little church at Galston Rutland is quite terrifying for an Agnostic bell ringer because the bell tower is over the crossing and you ring on the communion steps  in front of the congregation at "peak listening time" while the congregation is at its most critical

Edited November 22, 2019 by runs as required

[Regularity]

2 minutes ago, runs as required said:

In my head that North facing  scarp of the ironstone (between the GWR and the GNR at Little Bytham) herds the Estuary English all together in the bottom righthand corner,

Pretty close. Although definitely part of the East Midlands, Northamptonshire differs from the rest of the region in that it has "soft" "a" sounds, so barth rather than bath: the River Welland, which forms the boundary between Northamptonshire and Leicestershire & Rutland forms a notable isogloss between the sounds.

 

I am, of course, excluding the accent of some Corbyites from this generalisation!

[Allegheny1600]

 

 

 

 

6 hours ago, Edwardian said:

I always understood that the Anglican position, as reflected in the use of the Nicene Creed ("one holy Catholic and Apostolic Church"), is that the Church of England is the Church in England, that reformed part of the one true church established in England.

 

Of course, the Papacy did not accept this, which brings us back to the preoccupation of organised religion with unity, which tends to mean "control". 

As I understand it, the Anglican (English?) church only arose because some fat bloke called Eddie wanted rid of one of his wives, had no excuse to kill her and the main church of the time, refused his request for a divorce.

I guess he wasn't content to just have her as a bit on the side? (oh yeah - he wanted an heir!)

 

So, after all that, how can that particular church claim anything 'divine'?

 

As m'learned friend says, it's all about control.

[TheQ]

30 minutes ago, Allegheny1600 said:

As I understand it, the Anglican (English?) church only arose because some fat bloke called Eddie wanted rid of one of his wives, had no excuse to kill her and the main church of the time, refused his request for a divorce.

I guess he wasn't content to just have her as a bit on the side? (oh yeah - he wanted an heir!)

 

So, after all that, how can that particular church claim anything 'divine'?

 

As m'learned friend says, it's all about control.

Eddie were a skinny little chap who died early, the fat bloke  were 'is Dad Hener'ry who 'ad all the woman trouble..

Edited November 22, 2019 by TheQ

[Edwardian]

30 minutes ago, Allegheny1600 said:

As I understand it, the Anglican (English?) church only arose because some fat bloke called Eddie wanted rid of one of his wives, had no excuse to kill her and the main church of the time, refused his request for a divorce.

I guess he wasn't content to just have her as a bit on the side? (oh yeah - he wanted an heir!)

 

So, after all that, how can that particular church claim anything 'divine'?

 

As m'learned friend says, it's all about control.

 

Indeed, as Q observes, it was Henery the Eighth (he is). 

 

And that one was not killed.  Catherine of Aragon lived to a bitter old age. 

 

Henry was a religious conservative, so really just wanted a version of the Catholic church in which the Pope couldn't tell him what to do.  He also thought that he could look after the wealth of the church much better than the church could. So, he Nationalised it.  Something to do with bringing super-fast broadband to rural communities, if I recall correctly. He had no plans to Nationalise anything else, he said.  Just bishoprics.  Oh, and monasteries, abbeys, priories, chantries etc.   

 

Eddie was his son and he and his advisers were the hardcore proddies who wanted to stop dressing up in, well, dresses, mumbling in Latin and hiding behind rood screens, all of which, in their view, tended to get in the way of the People knowing what the Feck was going on and what God really thought.  These proddy Calvinists were pretty sure they knew what God really thought, because He'd chosen to tell the Calvinists.  It was a good job that God only spoke to Calvinists, because what God really thought, according to the Calvinists, was that only a few people would be saved on Judgement Day, these few being, quite coincidentally, the Calvinists.

 

 

 

    

 

 

[Nearholmer]

You are on excellent form today!

 

I'm supposed to be busy working, but that was an excellent diversion.

[Northroader]

He’s doing well, I’m diligently searching “Edwardian gauge 1 beach volleyball” and getting nowhere.

[Hroth]

30 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

 

Indeed, as Q observes, it was Henery the Eighth (he is). 

 

And that one was not killed.  Catherine of Aragon lived to a bitter old age. 

 

Henry was a religious conservative, so really just wanted a version of the Catholic church in which the Pope couldn't tell him what to do.  He also thought that he could look after the wealth of the church much better than the church could. So, he Nationalised it.  Something to do with bringing super-fast broadband to rural communities, if I recall correctly. He had no plans to Nationalise anything else, he said.  Just bishoprics.  Oh, and monasteries, abbeys, priories, chantries etc.   

 

Eddie was his son and he and his advisers were the hardcore proddies who wanted to stop dressing up in, well, dresses, mumbling in Latin and hiding behind rood screens, all of which, in their view, tended to get in the way of the People knowing what the Feck was going on and what God really thought.  These proddy Calvinists were pretty sure they knew what God really thought, because He'd chosen to tell the Calvinists.  It was a good job that God only spoke to Calvinists, because what God really thought, according to the Calvinists, was that only a few people would be saved on Judgement Day, these few being, quite coincidentally, the Calvinists.

 

 

 

    

 

 

Of course, Eddie didn't  last long, suspicious, I'd say, especially  as  his sis Contrary Mary took over and started carrying on with Spanish toyboys, returning to the religion  of her grandfather  (NOT her father!), then when she died with Calais engraved on her heart, Lizzie took over (a wonder Lizzy wasn't bumped off too!) and promptly  turned hard-a-starboard back to the Eddie way of doing things...

 

 

[Edwardian]

2 minutes ago, Hroth said:

Of course, Eddie didn't  last long, suspicious, I'd say, especially  as  his sis Contrary Mary took over and started carrying on with Spanish toyboys, returning to the religion  of her grandfather  (NOT her father!), then when she died with Calais engraved on her heart, Lizzie took over (a wonder Lizzy wasn't bumped off too!) and promptly  turned hard-a-starboard back to the Eddie way of doing things...

 

 

 

What has always puzzled me is how anyone could think that having "Calais" engraved on your heart could be anything other than fatal.

 

Thus, the Reformation was to the future of the English booze-cruise what Brexit will be to, well, the future of the English booze-cruise.

[Compound2632]

10 minutes ago, Hroth said:

his sis Contrary Mary took over and started carrying on with Spanish toyboys, 

 

 

Oy! That's their majesties, by the Grace of God, the King and Queen of England*, Spain, France, Jerusalem, both the Sicilies, and Ireland, Defenders of the Faith, Archduke and Archduchess of Austria, Duke and Duchess of Burgundy, Milan, and Brabant, and Count and Countess of Habsburg, Flanders, and Tyrol you're talking about there, so show some respect.

 

*including Wales.

[Hroth]

24 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

Thus, the Reformation was to the future of the English booze-cruise what Brexit will be to, well, the future of the English booze-cruise.

 

I can't decide how bad that will be...

 

15 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Oy! That's their majesties, by the Grace of God, the King and Queen of England*, Spain, France, Jerusalem, both the Sicilies, and Ireland, Defenders of the Faith, Archduke and Archduchess of Austria, Duke and Duchess of Burgundy, Milan, and Brabant, and Count and Countess of Habsburg, Flanders, and Tyrol you're talking about there, so show some respect.

 

*including Wales.

 

As I said, a Spanish toyboy, lurking in the Escorial, dispatching Jesuits hither and yon!

 

Of course, the amount of gold and silver he stole from the Americas completely bu@@ered the Spanish economy...

 

[Donw]

I have the impression (quite possibly wrong) that Lizzy 1 was not pushing her own religeous ideas but did want to stay queen so  took note of who would support her and how well her sister's policies had been recieved. 

Don

[Annie]

5 hours ago, Edwardian said:

or as Annie must view the Gauge Commission of 1846!  

Deceived they were.  By jackanapes with bags of carnival tricks and with lies dripping from their chins.  

When put to the test these coal cart gauger's engines broke and the Broad Gauge was triumphant with 'Firefly' carrying the colours of the day.  And yet...... and yet, - the coal cart gaugers were the ones given the nod.  'Foul!' I cry, - 'Foul!'

[sem34090]

I say - This conversation ought to be enough to get me through the exams. Tudor history suddenly makes a good deal more sense!