Lamps!

[Happy Hippo]

 First hurdle was separating the staples off individually from their strip that they come out of the box

I use a stapler!

 

Grip the stapler in your hand, with the avvil clear of the staple ejection port.

 

Squeeze the staple magazine up to the body of the stapler and a single staple should be ejected.

 

Repeat until you have enough staples.

 

It's a Grangetown thing! (All my bad habits were learned there.)

[The Johnster]

Obvious now you've said it!  I may do that next time...

 

I picked up one or two bad habits in Grangetown as well, including one called Jenny that I have fond memories of...

[The Johnster]

Just spent half an hour sticking lenses in Modelu head lamps.  90% success rate; out of 2 packs of 5 lamps I managed to lose the silver backing off one of the lenses.  But it doesn't matter; I have, for now, sufficient made up head lamps and tail lamps to run the layout fully and properly lamped up.  Not all stock has brackets yet, and a few more will be fitted with them when I've had this cup of tea, followed (not necessarily this evening, we'll see how I feel) with painting and weathering them in.  We are there, all bar the shouting!  I will be ordering a few more, as there may be another train to consider (coal empties) and they are the sort of small item that goes walkabout when you're not looking.

 

Thank you all for your input over the months I have been mithering, planning, and finding things out about this matter.  In fact, on my layout only 3 codes are needed, ordinary passenger, class C for ecs and parcels trains, and K for mineral and 'goods train stopping in section'; the pickup.  Oh, and the occasional light engine, or engine and brake van.  My diminishing stock of jewelled Springsides, another walkabout item, are either glued to the spare brackets on the locos or hanging around the lamp hut, which now needs a bench, a drum of paraffin to sit on the bench, a small can to fill the lamps with, and a No Smoking notice.

 

Yes, it was worth the effort, for me anyway.  Lamps, and the heady sulphurous aroma of rust, paraffin, and match head phosphor, were once part of my working life, and I sort of enjoyed them, a connection to railwaymen going back to Stephenson's time and perhaps before.  They were, and their electric descendants still are, a seminal part of the railway world, and it feels good to be able to model them as properly as I can.  I cannot speak highly enough of the Modelu lamps, which have made the whole thing much easier, and can completely recommend them to anyone (no connection, satisfied customer) with the reservation that sticking the lenses in will drive you bonkers!

[The Johnster]

The district traffic manager's office at Tondu received a rather sharply worded letter yesterday from On High reminding them of the importance of correct lamps on all trains, as some complaints had been received, particularly about laxity in this matter on the Cwmdimbath branch.  So, notice has bee sent to all staff concerned that the correct lamps are now to be displayed on all trains without fail, effective immediately.

 

In other words, I've just completed an hour's operating session, about a fifth of the daily sequence running the working timetable, using the new system of lamps and brackets.  And it all works!  Happy Johnster!

 

A little more work remains, notably the replacing of Springsides on the auto set and the attachment of brackets to the 56xx class.  This has proved difficult in two ways; at the front, the smokebox overhang makes attachment difficult on the middle bracket and for now she's banned from parcels or empty stock working, and on the rear of the bunker, the presence of a solid metal bunker ballast piece which includes the detail for the cab rear sheet means that I will have to drill into the metal to attach the brackets securely, so she is temporarily restricted to passenger work bunker first as this is all she has a bracket for.  This in turn means waiting until next time I go into town to buy suitable drill bits.  And the brackets have to be painted and weathered in as well.  And I need more brake van side lamps from Modelu.

 

But it is a proven concept, and a success!  Looks a tad crude and overscale, which to be fair it is, but from anything over a foot or so it passes muster, and I can live with that, at least to a much greater extent than I can with no lamps displayed or lamps glued on that were wrong for half the time.  In any case the crudity of the brackets is hidden when there are lamps on them.  Thank you all for your advice and assistance again, and thank you Alan at Modelu.

Edited September 14, 2017 by The Johnster

[N15class]

I have just read this thread and I am slightly confused. We often hear complaints about the hand of God looking wrong when scale couplings are use or some item of stock is not behaving properly. But to change lamps around is fine?

[The Johnster]

Rule 1.  Cwmdimbath is a home layout, not exhibited, and the Hand Of God, wielding the Great Shunting Pole From On High, has to be invoked to uncouple vehicles anyway.  I am happy to live with this anomaly, not to mention the hideously unrealistic tension lock couplings.  So the HOG for the lamps is no great inconvenience.  Manual handling of lamps is worth the anomaly in my view because I want my trains to be correctly lamped (as an ex railwayman it bothers me when they aren't).  

 

On a British steam age layout where working lamps are not incorporated into locos and stock in the way that they are on diesel era ones, or H0 models which often have larger and permanently fixed electric lamps even on steam locos, there is little alternative.  Paradoxically, this modern image/H0 approach often leads to incorrect practice such as locos hauling trains with the loco tail lamps lit!  There is no way to arrange removable lamps on a British outline steam era 4mm layout without manual handling, never mind having them working or lit!

 

On an exhibition layout it would be an issue; the HOG is never a good thing here, and there are often limits to how far the operators can effectively reach over the backscene to attach lamps anyway.  I am finding my lamps a bit fiddly in some cases, which is down to my general chip fingered clumsiness and lack of coordination, and am now working on the idea of a modified tweezers as a lamp attachment or removaltool, early stage haven't really thought it through yet but some sort of lamp shaped recess in Milliput or plasticene fixed to the tweezer might work.  It needs to be tight enough to hold the lamp but loose enough to let go when pressure is released.

Edited September 19, 2017 by The Johnster

[The Johnster]

Out of general lack of motivation (or, to put it more truthfully, because I am just plain lazy), no progress has yet been made on the tweezer/lampholder-putter-onner-taker-off-er thingy device yet.  But I need to do some work on it, as my Molelu lamps, while brilliantly realistic, are not up to continual handlng by my chubby fingers; several have lost their carrying handles and one or two lenses have made a break for the border.  Of course, this is not a disaster as it is very simple and not expensive even by my poor-pensioner-cue-the-violins standards; Modelu's service is first class (satisfied customer, no connection to company).  Re-ordering is now necessary as, in addition to these handling damage losses, some lamps have gone missing in the way that small things do in rooms with carpets; no doubt they have ended up in vacuum cleaner bags.

 

To be fair to Modelu, whose products and service I am very satisfied with, the lamps are probably not designed with repeated handling in mind.  The lamp handling tweezers are, in the first attempt, going to be a pair of plastic tweezers with lumps of Milliput on the ends, into which the lamp has been pressed and then removed to form a holding recess mould.  I am envisioning the moulds holding the lamp by the sides, and they will be angled to 'offer' the lamp to the bracket from about a 60 degree angle from above, which should cater for most situations.  If successful, I may be able to mount the brackets more prototypically closely to the vehicle body, win win.

 

My worry is that i will press a lamp into the soft Milliput and not be able to retrieve it.  Alternative ideas are to have the mould on one side of the tweezers and a piece of soft rubber (bicycle inner tube) glued to the other to give a little flexibility.  In this way the more delicate parts of the lamp, the handle and the lens, should be protected from the worst of my dexterically challenged brutality.

 

I will photograph progress so that, if successful, the method can be used by others considering this sort of thing!  It is now the next but one project after the replacement of my card (nowhere near strong enough) scenic break at the fiddle yard entrance just beyond the road bridge; I have already sourced a suitable pieces of ply from a skip up the street...

Edited April 10, 2018 by The Johnster

[stewartingram]

Apply the Milliput - or car body filler - to the tweezers. Whilst still wet, apply a smear of oil to the lamp, then pick it up by the tweezers, clamp them untill the filler sets. The lamp being oiled, should release ok?

Just to add, I haven't actually tried this, but seen it mentioned before in similar situations.

 

Stewart

[The Johnster]

Thank you, Stewart, that sounds as if it would work.  It has occurred to me today during a thinking session (I am so bad at thinking that I have to have specific sessions for it) that as there are 2 different types of lamp to handle, which slightly differing profiles, I will need two sets of tweezers, and they will have to be colour coded so I know which one I am picking up without having to examine them each time.

 

And of course the tweezers will have to be illuminated like my shunting pole.

 

Watch this space for further exciting episodes, eventually....

[stewartingram]

That cheapy shop known as B&M might have something suitable. In the women's make-up section (!), they have tweezers, which contain an led. They are also available in different colours. Useful tool for modellers.

 

Stewart

[crompton 33]

Poundland had tweezers with a light in them.  YES they are a pound.

[The Johnster]

Poundland had tweezers with a light in them.  YES they are a pound.

 

Oh, yeah, I'm 'aving some of those; sounds perfect for the job!

[The Johnster]

Poundland's troubles have prompted me to plan a visit to my local one later today; I will keep a look out for the illuminated tweezers.  I had a bargain from Maplin's, another doomed store, yesterday in the form of a small USB LED floodlight with a spring clip intended to be attached to your phone to take selfies with; £2 and I can clip it to my glasses!

[stewartingram]

Illuminated tweezers are still available from B&M stores.

 

Stewart

[The Johnster]

Bought two this afternoon; £1.45 each and just the thing!  But the grips are pink plastic, and I need to paint them so that SWMBO doesn't purloin them for some inexplicable womany purpose.  

 

Something certainly needs to be done, as my Modelu lamps are not standing up well to the rigours of my chubby fingered handling.  To be fair they are probably not really designed for this sort of thing; lenses fall out and are lost, handles break, I have torn the back off one tail lamp by my inconsiderate handling, and my stock of useable lamps constantly diminishes.  I have never managed to achieve my aim of having a set of lamps for each loco or van, and a tail lamp for each rake of passenger rated stock, for very long.

 

The tweezers have ends that are bent inwards and these will probably have to be forcibly bent back so that they are parallel, or at least quite finely tapered, and then I can start experimenting with gripping surfaces; a soft rubber or fine foam might be preferable to the proposed Milliput holders if there are problems releasing the lamps from them.

 

Watch this space for further exiting developments!

Edited June 9, 2018 by The Johnster

[31A]

I use Springside ones, drilled out from below.  They're probably a bit bigger than the Modelu ones, but being whitemetal I would imagine maybe more robust.  One has lost its handle but is still useable, and a few tail lamps have lost their red brilliants, which makes then fit to be used as headlamps!

 

Thanks for the advice re. illuminated tweezers; I must go to the shops ...

[The Johnster]

The Springsides may yet have a role to play, being more robust than Modelu.   I wouldn't have said there was much difference in size, though I haven't measured them up, but I prefer the appearance of the Modelu lamps, and they are supplied with a recess for the bracket.  The lenses, not being jewelled, look much better IMHO.  But drilled Springsides may prove to be the answer, even though you say you are losing lenses.

 

Initial tests with the B & M tweezers show that the light is a major advantage and that the lamps are held quite firmly in straightened out jaws (all you have to do is squeeze the jaws together and they will automatically adopt the right profile).  Don't accept this as definitive until I've done more testing, though; busy with SWMBO's social life tomoz (barbecue; o well if I must...) but an operating session Monday should sort things out a bit!

 

I have a general feeling of progress being made, though!!!

[31A]

To be honest, I'm not too bothered whether they have the brilliants in them or not!  Sometimes they fall out of their own accord while I'm drilling them out; this usually leaves a round patch of unpainted whitemetal so if they're headlamps I leave them as they are but if they're meant to be tail lamps I paint the lens in with a spot of dark red paint.  Here are a couple of my engines wearing them; as it happens in both cases they are rather bright white.  They might benefit from being toned down, but I also find that after handling them with tweezers for a while the paint wears off the edges making them duller and leaving unpainted metal, again not unrealistic!

 

 

 

Spent this afternoon browsing two pound shops and the big Boots for illuminated tweezers, to no avail - and feeling rather self conscious hanging around make up counters!  However I have now found some on Amazon which look as though they might fit the bill:

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Eyebrow-Removal-Tweezer-Stainless-Cosmetic/dp/B01EJNWH04/ref=sr_1_5_a_it?ie=UTF8&qid=1528639443&sr=8-5&keywords=tweezers+with+light

 

 

[Harlequin]

You could get power to a small LED in the removable lamps by induction through the metal lamp bracket... Staples are a good choice!

 

This would be incredibly fine and fiddly but: One of those little LED splinters would connect to a coil of very fine wire that runs round inside the base of the lamp as many times as possible. (In fact you'd probably make the coil and the LED first and mould the the lamp body around them.)

 

Thus, when the lamp sits on the bracket the coil encircles it.

 

Then you wire up the lamp bracket under or inside the loco body to an oscillating signal. It may be possible to program a DCC output to provide this. That will induce an oscillating current in the coil and when the current flow is in the right direction the LED will light up. If the frequency is fast enough you won't see that it's turning on and off. (That could be improved by a tiny capacitor in the lamp circuit if it could be fitted in somehow.)

 

Not sure if that's feasible either physically or electronically, but it's an idea...! 

Edited June 10, 2018 by Harlequin

[The Johnster]

It is indeed an idea, and I am impressed with the ingenuity you have brought to the issue.  Induction might even induce a little flicker while running, which would be gilding the lily!  

 

I won't be attempting this, though!  Another order to Modelu to replace those lost to the carpet monster and physical attrition; at least they are not expensive.  Initial experiment with blu tak on the ends of the grippers has proved unsuccessful; the lamp cannot easily be released from the gripper when it is placed on the bracket.  I wasn't expecting anything else but thought I'd have go to see what was what.  Next attempt will be soft rubber pads.

 

But the tweezer grippers hold the lamps well, and I have high hopes for the concept.

[sigtech]

Hello Johnster, I have been following the 'lamping' saga for some time now, I must admit to not having tried these new lamps from 'Modelu', -  instead I have used 'Springsides' offerrings, fitted with the occassional small piece of 'blacktac' inserted into the 0.7mm hole that I drill in the lamp base' , then mounted onto the lamp iron.  All items of my rolling stock, including locos have replacement irons fitted made from staples, cut to length, bent ( if required ) the GWR way...and painted matt black . ( some items of rolling stock have them painted matt white ). All paints used being Humbrol enamel.

I purchased - from my local model shop here in Kings Lynn a pair of straight tweezers, ( Xcelite brand 412 )  that operate with a reverse action - you squeeze the top section to open the jaws in the bottom section then release your grip to close them. They seem to work well on these lamps. I too have lost a few jewelled lenses - must buy some more spare lamps sometime...

Anyway I have included a few pics to show what I mean. The system is not perfect, being labour intensive ( and fiddly ) but it works and is reasonably robust.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Regards

(SIGTECH)

Steve.

[The Johnster]

You are working to very much the same principles as me, only with Springside lamps.  I prefer the Modelus, because I think the lenses look better than the jewelled Springsides and there are both BR and GW versions (among others) avaialble, and the detail is a little finer, but they are not really standing up to repeated handling.

 

They are 3D printed in red plastic, so have to be painted, and the lenses come on a separate sheet of stickyback paper which you peel them off from.  This is uncomfortably close to the limit of the smallest pieces that I can handle with my unsteady old hands and piggy little fingers, and one or two always get mislaid in the assembly process. I can make an average of 3 successful lamps out of 5 on a sprue in about an hour, then I have to take time out.  The lenses are actually two components, a clear or red plastic domed lens and a silver foil paper backed disc that it sits on top of.  As well as the handling faff getting the lenses off the backing, it is again close to the limit of how finely I can work these days to get the lenses correctly positioned in their place on the lamp body, though I would have not had such difficulty a few years, or decades, ago!

 

They rely on the stickybackness of the lens assembly to adhere to the body, but I rapidly discovered that this was seriously not up to the rigours of repeated handling and now use a spot of superglue.  Lenses still make breaks for the border, though, and the attrition rate is becoming a problem, as is handle breakage.

 

The big advantage of Modelu lamps, however, is that they come with a slot provided in the base to accept a bracket, scale etched brass or staple, and appropriately positioned for the type of lamp. van side lamps have two bracket slots so that you can reverse them and show the correct lamps.  This means that you have to have 2 sets of sides per van if you are to show running in a loop or on a relief road where the van has to display a white side lamp nearest to the running line.  Your drivers will express themselves in very strong terms if they come around a curve at 80mph or so under clear signals to be confronted with 3 red lights apparently ahead of them and closing rapidly...

 

This is why I am reconsidering Springsides for greater robustness, and of course they come fully finished, painted, and with the lenses already fixed.  I have never had a Springside lens fall out on me, and some of my lamps are over 30 years old, but of course they are used in applications where they do not get handled frequently.  Drilling an 0.7mm hole in the base of them is probably more within my comfort zone than faffing with painting and assembling the Modelus.

 

Self closing pliers are something I gave thought to, but the advantage of a lit device is important to me and I want to keep a set of pliers specifically for this purpose and away from the modelling tools.

 

I would highly recommend a squiz at Modelu's website, though; usual disclaimer.  Service is faultless, and I have replaced all my signal finials with theirs.  The figures are very good, and have wonderfully characteristic poses, and there are all sorts of other 3D printed goodies on offer at not unreasonably prices as well.

[The Johnster]

I have now bought 3 sets of Springside lamps, 2 GW and 1 BR, to be drilled in the bottoms and used in place of some of the damaged or lost Modelus as an experiment.  They are not as good as the Modelus, which are finer detailed and have much better looking lenses to my view, but should be able to withstand my chip fingered handling a bit better!  I will report back in a few weeks to let you know how they are performing; my view now is that the Modelus, good and undoubted value for money though they are, are not really designed for the sort of continual handling I am subjecting them to; this is by no means meant as a criticism of these excellent products.

 

I have 8 or 9 locos depending on how you count 2 large prairie bodies that share a single chassis, and 8 trains.  Locos need a minimum of 2 head lamps and a red tail lamp each (we will not worry about Royal Trains at Cwmdimbath), and each train needs a tail lamp (again, we will not consider the 14 or whatever it was tail lamps on the Cornish Riviera Express with all those slip coaches).  Brake vans, 3 or 4 of them in service at any one time, need a red tail lamp each and 2 side lamps; my fitted van can get away with a single tail lamp for it's occasional outings.  So, we need about 20 head lamps (don't forget there are 2 auto trains), at least 8 tail lamps, as well as 8 side lamps for brake vans; 36 lamps altogether.  I try to keep them allocated to locos and trains, but of course they get switched about a bit in service, and little piles of them appear at the end of each fiddle yard road.

 

All of the vehicles that need brackets now have them, so, every loco, brake van, passenger/NPCCS, and fitted XP rated stock.  But, given the attrition rate of damaged lamps and those lost to the carpet monster, which needs a regular sacrifice to keep it placated, I have never been in a position to have enough lamps in undamaged condition for all my trains.  We continue to strive to attain this goal...

[tomparryharry]

I have now bought 3 sets of Springside lamps, 2 GW and 1 BR, to be drilled in the bottoms and used in place of some of the damaged or lost Modelus as an experiment.  They are not as good as the Modelus, which are finer detailed and have much better looking lenses to my view, but should be able to withstand my chip fingered handling a bit better!  I will report back in a few weeks to let you know how they are performing; my view now is that the Modelus, good and undoubted value for money though they are, are not really designed for the sort of continual handling I am subjecting them to; this is by no means meant as a criticism of these excellent products.

 

I have 8 or 9 locos depending on how you count 2 large prairie bodies that share a single chassis, and 8 trains.  Locos need a minimum of 2 head lamps and a red tail lamp each (we will not worry about Royal Trains at Cwmdimbath), and each train needs a tail lamp (again, we will not consider the 14 or whatever it was tail lamps on the Cornish Riviera Express with all those slip coaches).  Brake vans, 3 or 4 of them in service at any one time, need a red tail lamp each and 2 side lamps; my fitted van can get away with a single tail lamp for it's occasional outings.  So, we need about 20 head lamps (don't forget there are 2 auto trains), at least 8 tail lamps, as well as 8 side lamps for brake vans; 36 lamps altogether.  I try to keep them allocated to locos and trains, but of course they get switched about a bit in service, and little piles of them appear at the end of each fiddle yard road.

 

All of the vehicles that need brackets now have them, so, every loco, brake van, passenger/NPCCS, and fitted XP rated stock.  But, given the attrition rate of damaged lamps and those lost to the carpet monster, which needs a regular sacrifice to keep it placated, I have never been in a position to have enough lamps in undamaged condition for all my trains.  We continue to strive to attain this goal...

Aah, just like real life! "Some ' pinched my lamp"! When we cleared the paint store at Radyr, there was a scrap skip half filled with tail lamps. I wish I had the foresight....

 

Ian.

[The Johnster]

Margam was notorious for this; they once pinched an entire brake van I'd prepped...