Gladiator 7mm LNER Class L1 2-6-4T

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Hello,

After recently completing the Warren Shephard 45XX (bar the lacquering and weathering), I thought I’d start a thread on my latest build, the Gladiator LNER L1 2-6-4 tank. I quite like big tank locos and having built the DJB Standard 4 and JM Fowler 2-6-4 in the past, decided to look for another similar suitable prototype. The DJH Fairburn is  now  over priced in my opinion and  the  MOK Standard 4 beyond my budget (although I would  love to get  my hands on one).  The  David  Andrews 2 cylinder Stanier 2-6-4 is  another  one I would  love to build, but  again beyond my budget, and  I didn’t fancy having  to order it  and  wait  3 months. In the end I plumped for the Gladiator L1 having seen a nice build by Jazz on his thread, and by John Cockcroft in one of the monthly mags now defunct.  BR Modelling Illustrated (I think).

Anyway, after contacting David Hill on availability, I arranged to pick one up on a recent business trip to save on the postage, as I was passing quite close to his home in Derby.

It comes nicely packaged in the usual Gladiator style, albeit in a rather large “squarish” box rather than the more useful (for subsequent storage) oblong type. It is the usual mix of brass and nickel silver etchings, along with a vast array of white metal and some brass and nickel silver castings.  The necessary nuts, bolts, handrail knobs and selection of brass rod are also included to complete.

My only criticism at this stage would be the willy-nilly fashion in which the etched parts are arranged on the frets. You snip off a couple of large parts, and find that various small parts also have to be removed and are then floating loose in the box. Currently I have numerous small parts in a poly bag to keep them together. Whinge over.

I overlooked to photograph the contents of the box before cracking on, so on with the build. The starting point was the coupling rods which are a three part laminate designed to be rigid! This is not for me in 7mm scale, so the first job was to cut and modify to articulate them on the joint behind the middle hole.  I’ve written this up on previous thread so won’t bore you all with the details. Suffice to say this was done with the aid of an Avonside chassis jig, although this is a nicety rather than an essential.  Here’s a pic of the rods in place. I still have to drill the bosses and add the “corks”.

Then the frames and spacers were prepared and the front and rear axle bushes tack soldered in the holes. The middle ones were left loose at this stage. Again using the Avonside jig (previously set up using the coupling rods) the frames were assembled and soldered up.  The wheels were prepared and then fitted with the rods to check running. All was square and after a little fettling of the coupling rod holes, I had a nice free rolling chassis.  The front and  rear wheels were then centred across the  frames using old business cards as packing, and  the tack soldered bushes heated and  push out to touch the  back of the  wheels. They were then fully soldered. This alleviates the need for packing washers and minimises side play, particularly important on the front wheels, to allow clearance between the cross heads and coupling rods.  The centre axle bush hole will be elongated later to allow the middle wheels to “float” with some springing.

Next up was the cylinders and here I encountered some problems. The wrapper etching is full thickness and quite hard, being nickel silver. The rivets are half eth and need to be punch out but no problem there.  However, despite annealing and repeated annealing, the metal is a pig to bend to shape and in the end I gave up and made replacements from thinner brass sheet.

  After annealing these was a doddle to shape and solder in place.  To space the front and back plates I used a simple jig of a couple of M4 bolts and nuts from Homebase, set up with the Vernier callipers to match the width of the wrapper.

And with one side soldered.

And complete with the inspection plates in place.

By the way, the slots in the cylinder plates and frames needed quite a bit of filing to get the cylinders to sit down, but no big deal. I will be making modifications to allow the cylinders and valve gear to be removable as one unit as opposed to soldered in place as designed,

With the chassis at this stage I decided to proceed with the footplate and body, so that clearances for motor gearbox etc. could be checked.  The footplate valances come with an extension “jig” to keep them square whilst the running plates are soldered to the various up and down levels. On one side the jig has a gap at the bottom where it is extended with a tabbed strip to match the other deeper side. Unfortunately, due  to the  willy-nilly nature of the  layout of the  parts on the  frets, I mistook this  to be  the  edge of  the  fret and  snipped it  off.  Duuurgh!  I did not  actually realise my  mistake  until the  main and  rear running plates were fixed to the  valances as I did this  upside down on a  piece  of ¼ inch plate glass. By the way, there is no indication on the etches where the fix the valance on no slots and tabs.  However, the instruction state that the valance should be 1 mm from the edge, so I scribed a line using the Vernier callipers.  You also need to joggle the valance inwards towards the just behind where the cab will be.

Despite  the  above, I had  no problems  fitting it  all together and all was flat and  square, but  at the  same  time  somewhat lop sided! Is that possible?  Normally it would be prudent to leave the extension pieces in place, probably until the boiler is in place, but in this case I decided to remove them and clean up the edges.  That way, I at least could lay the valances flat on the glass plate to add the tank sides etc.  I’m building a later contractor built version with the  gap to the  running plate ahead of  the  cylinders, so the  front drop to the  valances were snipped off.  I screwed up modifying the front running plate so had to make another from brass.  However, the etched frame extensions are too short so these had also to be made from scratch along with the top plate that straddles the top of these.

Next up was the  tank/cab/bunker sides. First the rivet detail under the  windows needs punching.  This  is half etched but is etched on the  outside not  inside! To get around this  I carefully pressed a small indent by hand  with a  centre punch from the  outside. I then turned the  sides over and  punched raised indent back to other  way to form the rivets on the  outside. Not  perfect but  the  rivets are obscured by the  handrail under the  windows. The  outer window beading, inner frames and handrails were then fitted. The small strip across the  bottom of  the doorway is  purely to keep the  things square until the  sides are soldered to the  running plate.

There are some half etch marks on the  tops of the  running plates to mark the  position of  the  sides and  I extended these with a  scribed line using the  Vernier callipers. You can just see the  line in this  shot.  Note also that the  cab look out beading has also been added.

Looking at Jazz’s build and the review by John Cockcroft in BRMI, they have both made an error (no disrespect here guys) in relation to the expansion link passing through the running plate. In both cases, they state that the link protruded through the running plate, but was covered by a small “splasher”. Indeed, the kit provides a casting for this. Jazz actually cuts the hole  in the  running plate, but  then decides that as the  top of  the  link is covered by the  “splasher” casting, to cut off the  top of  the  expansion link. John Cockcroft decided that as the top of the link was covered by the “splasher”, it was not worth hacking into the running plate at all. However, knowing nothing about L1s until I started buying relevant  back issues of various magazines and  a copy of Yeadon’s Register on the  class, it is  clear from looking at the  photos that the  expansion link protrudes through the  running plate, and  the  “splasher” is  actually just a  right angle triangle piece of  metal placed in line with the  out edge of  the  tank towards the  front of  the large aperture. All credit to Hornby for getting this right in their 4mm RTR version. Anyway the  bottom line is that a hole  needs to be  cut  in the  running plate and  the  Isinglass drawing (purchased separately) is  a  big help in determining where this should  be.  Here’s the running plate marked out and the holes cut before fettling.  

And after cleaning up.

Once the holes were made I then proceeded to add the sides. To assist in making the curves at the  front of  the  tanks, I first annealed the  area that would be  curved  and then tacked soldered the  tank tops to the  sides to use  as a guide.  Here’s the left hand side.  

With the right hand side, I boxed a bit cleverer and used the brass square (What is this really for? I’ve had  it  for years but  only ever use  it  as a jig to hold things at 90 degrees while I solder them) between the  two tank tops and  was then able  to use it to get a better grip when making the  bend.

And with the two sides just placed on the running plate.  Proof of how square the bends were. Does that make sense? Square bends!

And with the sides soldered in place.  The cab front plate has also been added after fixing the window frames, as has the bunker rear. All nice and square and looking good so far.

Note that the strip at the bottom of the doorway has now been removed.

Cheers,

Peter

[david.hill64]

I plead guilty to changing the box size: cutting down the etches to fit into a standard 'Gladiator' box was so difficult and always ran the risk of damaging parts so I gave up. Happy to get feedback on whether or not it is better to return to the original size.

 

Looking forward to following this one!

[3 link]

Hi Peter,

 

Always enjoy reading about your builds, especially any tips and that jig of yours for the cylinder wrappers ( brilliant ) why didn't I think of that : )

I usually lay flat the cylinder plates and tack solder the wrappers in the up right if that makes sense, but your jig is like having another pair of hands.

 

Cheers,

 

Martyn.

[dibateg]

I'll be watching with interest - I have one in the cupboard....

 

Regards

Tony

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Hi David,

Take your point on why you changed the box size. I'll cut it down to fit when the model is complete.

 

Martyn,

The cylinder jig is very simple but very effective. I used to do them the same way as you but it's not easy to ensure they are square. Wish I'd thought of it years ago.

 

Tony,

As I mentioned Jazz has also built a couple on his thread. Only a few photos of the build but still usefull.

 

Cheers,

Peter

[Sandy Harper]

The chunk of brass metal looks suspiciously like a 00 or EM  back to back  wheel gauge? Got one very similar, and just as useful!

 

Regards

Sandy

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The chunk of brass metal looks suspiciously like a 00 or EM  back to back  wheel gauge? Got one very similar, and just as useful!

 

Regards

Sandy

Hi Sandy,

Thanks. Yes of course, a back to back guage. I guess the slot in the middle is for the gear wheel on the driven axle. I must have had it 30 years but have only every used it to hold two pieces of metal at 90 degrees when soldering. It must be for some sort of push on wheels as you would not need it for Romfords . Thank god for Slaters Wheels in 7mm. Despite their faults they are very you user friendly.

 

Cheers,

Peter

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Next up the boiler.  This has quite a nifty design feature to accommodate the fit between it and the tank fronts. As such it  is  worth mentioning that it  is  critical to get  the  bends on the tanks in the  correct  place, otherwise the  boiler will not  sit  correctly against the  cab front spectacle plate.

Here’s the parts laid out ready for soldering. Notice the slots in the boiler sides!  These slot over the  front  of  the  tanks and  give  a  very neat tidy fit, which obviates any  need for  filing the  correct  profile on the  edge of  the  tanks.

And with the wrapper soldered to the discs. The back one in only a semi-circle due to the cut-out in the boiler for the motor. There are two of these and the second one is supposed to go about half way between the end and where the full wrapper starts. However, I did not  see that this  added and  further structural integrity and  omitted it  to give  extra clearance which might  be  needed for  the motor.  Note the gap at the bottom as the wrapper is too short. No problem as this won't be visible on the finished model.

And slotted in place.  The slots needed a little filing at the top to let the boiler sit down. I’ll check if further adjustment is required when the smokebox saddle is made up.

Now the smokebox. Starting with the front disc, the instructions tell you to form and fit part 68 around the disc.  There is no part 68 on the fret!  There  are  two part 61s, one is the  rear bunker top plate, and  the other is  part  68, wrongly marked 61 on the  etch as  can be  seen. All three of these parts are over length and require trimming.

Here’s the wrapper during preparation. The half etches rivets at the top are untouched. As can be seen the etching is quite variable, so I was concerned that the rivets would be different sizes when punched. Therefore I gave them all a few turns with a 1mm drill bit in the pin vice to even them up before punching. I annealed the wrapper and cleaned it up before punching the rivets.  I assume that as the metal is softer and more elastic, there is less likelihood of punching through???

After seem soldering the smokebox wrapper and the front I encountered a slight problem. The front is supposed to fit inside the wrapper and be left a little proud to add a radius to the edge. However, they are both the same diameter as can been seen when checking them against the Isinglass drawing.

To overcome this I removed the perimeter strip from the edge of the disc and refitted on the face after shortening it slightly. I was also not happy that there was enough metal in the disc to form a radius so I first made another disc using the original as a template, and then sweated them together.

Here it is in place.  I need to rub it down a bit and file the radius.

At the rear, the two remaining pieces shown in the etch above, (parts 69 and 70) need to be soldered one inside the other and fit staggered after forming and trimming.  The  instructions state setting the outer one 2mm outside the  wrapper and  the  inner one 1 mm. Looking at photos and  the  Isinglass drawing, it  looks  to be  the  other  wat around to me  so that’s the  way I fixed them.

The boiler then needs to be located through the  rear of  the  smoke box and  butted up against the front disc. I will shove some dowel into the  hole at the  front to centre it  before  soldering  at the  rear.  The boiler tube is  parallel and  the  taper  is  just an illusion from the camera being  slightly at an angle  when the  shot  was taken.

And in place. 

This  shot  from the  side suggests it  may  need to come  down a  little at the  front, but  again that could  be  the  camera.  I’ll check it  and if  need be a little  filing of  the  slots will correct it.  In John Cockcroft’s article in British Railway Modelling (Aug 2003), he needed to lower the boiler but opted to file the top edge of the tanks instead.  Looking back at the cab lookout  beading which incorporates the  top fixing for the  cab door handrail, I’m not  sure  I have  got  these  the  right  way round, so they may  have  to come off and  be turned.  I fitted them with the handrail fixing bent outwards, as this is  the  way the somewhat crude drawing in the  instructions suggests.  The trouble is, so far I cannot find a decent  photo which clearly shows this  area.  Unfortunately there  is no preserved example  to refer to either, so if  anybody has  a Hornby example, be  good to know how they depict it.

Some  trials and tribulations so far, but  nothing untoward. And  after all, “are we not men?”

Cheers,

Peter

[david.hill64]

Some useful feedback in here for an addendum to the instructions methinks!

[31A]

 

 Looking back at the cab lookout  beading which incorporates the  top fixing for the  cab door handrail, I’m not  sure  I have  got  these  the  right  way round, so they may  have  to come off and  be turned.  I fitted them with the handrail fixing bent outwards, as this is  the  way the somewhat crude drawing in the  instructions suggests.  The trouble is, so far I cannot find a decent  photo which clearly shows this  area.  Unfortunately there  is no preserved example  to refer to either, so if  anybody has  a Hornby example, be  good to know how they depict it.

 

 

 

They're virtually straight on the Hornby model; if anything they curve inwards rather than outwards,

 

[K14]

Looking back at the cab lookout  beading which incorporates the top fixing for the cab door handrail, I’m not sure I have got these the right way round, so they may have to come off and be turned. I fitted them with the handrail fixing bent outwards, as this is the way the somewhat crude drawing in the instructions suggests. The trouble is, so far I cannot find a decent photo which clearly shows this area.

This is the best I could turf up:— https://www.flickr.com/photos/malton/13876002733/sizes/o/

 

On the bunker edge it looks as though the boss that the bottom end of the handrail sits in is slightly inboard of the edge of the doorway, suggesting that the upper locating point is, as you feared, cranked inwards a tad.

The tank edge handrail seems to be hiding too, again suggesting its set back.

 

And after all, “are we not men?”

We are Devo.

Edited February 13, 2017 by K14

[Grasshopper John]

Great build again Peter you just go from strength to strength.

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We are Devo.

 

We most certainly are!

 

Thanks. I'll pour over the images in Yeadon's register with a loupe but I'm coming to the conclusion that they turn inwards.

 

Cheers,

Peter

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Not much time this week, but found some clear pictures in Yeadon's that confirm the supports at the ends of the lookout beading curve inwards. Took about 5 mins per side to get them off and refit so nothing lost, but annoyed that I made the mistake. I also had time to solder the smokebox to the boiler and will post some pics when I can get them on my laptop to resize.

Cheers,

Peter

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Here's the  reversed cab beading  with the handrail supports curving inwards.

 

As I said not  a  big deal, and  as  much my fault as the  lack of  clarity in the  instructions, but maybe David could  update the  instructions  for future prints.

 

There is only one  front inner wrapper for  the  smokebox  with two at the  rear.  This can allow  some movement at the  front so care needs to be  taken to ensure the  front of  the  boiler is  centered inside. This  is  easily done  but  pushing a  length suitable  dowel or  rod through the  holes in the  discs. I then soldered up all round at the  rear.  This  is  probably sufficient, but  to be  on the  safe side I added an insert from waste etch into the  disc holes, then soldered and  filed smooth. you  can just see it  in the  second shot. Pushing the  boiler fully forward will set the  smokebox too far back, but  it  is  easy to align it  correctly  using the  etched holes for  the chimney and  the relief valve behind it.

 

And positioned back on the  loco.

 

Will be  doing the  smokebox  saddle  next so I can check the  boiler height and  adjust as  appropriate. As mentioned earlier, John Cockcroft had  to lower the  boiler slightly, but we'll see.

 

Cheers,

Peter

[Grasshopper John]

we need a 'Brilliant' or 'superb' button.

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we need a 'Brilliant' or 'superb' button.

 

Thanks John,

Not  sure  about  that, but save it  until the end, as there's a lot  that can go pear shaped between now and  then!

 

There's guy on Western Thunder goes under the  name "Mickoo". If you haven't seen his  work then have a look as it is truly outstanding! His  work is  so clean he must have found the pot of  colourless solder at the  end of the  rainbow! For him you definitely need extra buttons.

 

Cheers,

Peter

[Grasshopper John]

I agree Peter, Mickoo's W1 build is outstanding I saw his chassis at Telford amazing, lets not forget Nick Dunhill and our own Dibateg ( Tony ) all premier league players, must feel good being in that league.

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Hi John,

Thanks for the kind words.

 

Yes all those guys are definitely Premier league. However, while they are vying for Champions league spots, I'm more mid table.

 

Let's face it Nick is a professional builder. I don't know about Mickoo and Tony, but the thing is, they all build a lot and the more you build the more you learn and the better your get.

 

I'm pleased with the results I achieve, and if others appreciate my work then that's a bonus. For now I'm happy being mid table.

 

Cheers,

Peter

[dikitriki]

Hi John,

Thanks for the kind words.

 

Yes all those guys are definitely Premier league. However, while they are vying for Champions league spots, I'm more mid table.

 

Let's face it Nick is a professional builder. I don't know about Mickoo and Tony, but the thing is, they all build a lot and the more you build the more you learn and the better your get.

 

I'm pleased with the results I achieve, and if others appreciate my work then that's a bonus. For now I'm happy being mid table.

 

Cheers,

Peter

Hi Peter,

 

I think you are too modest - you are definitely challenging for a Champions' league spot.

 

'Professional Builder' is many things to many people, and to my mind does not in and of itself encompass excellence. The only one of the 3 mentioned who is a professional builder in the sense of it being his main occupation is Tony. Nick is a professional in the sense he is paid for his work, but it is a spare time occupation for him and Mick is not a professional in any sense, other than approach, though he is of course one of the partners in Finney7, and mighty happy I am he is.

 

Richard

[warren haywood]

I have been lucky enough to paint models by all 3 Gents mentioned and also Dikitriki. There work is fantastic, but looking st your build Peter it is in the same league, and your in West Yorks so that's an even bigger plus :-)

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Wow! What can I say?

 

Words of praise from the other modellers on here are much appreciated. No disrespect to those who have complimented my work in the past, but praise from you Richard and you Warren makes me very proud. Many thanks to you both for the compliments.

 

With that encouragement I guess I will have to up my game and move up the table!

 

Cheers,

Peter

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Here’s a snapshot from the instructions showing how the smokebox saddle is fabricated. There are 8 pieces excluding the sandbox fillers.  The two parts shown are the top plate (with half etch) and (according to the instructions) the base plate part 78. Dimensionally it is the same size as the top plate only thicker.  I’ve studied all the photos that show this area and no way is there a base plate.  In my opinion, whoever wrote the instructions forgot how it was meant to go together as part 78 is surely for laminating with the top plate which is too thin, being half etched. That’s how I decided to do it.

There are no easy build features here, so you have to figure out how to hold the sides, front and rear pieces together, keeping them square, and then solder them. The front piece has a couple slots into which two small webs have to be added. I decided to add duplicate slots in the rear piece, and then solder the webs across the front and rear, using a simple “jig” to keep them in line.

The two pieces to the  right  are the  sides which have  square holes for  the  sandbox fillers to be  fitted through and  soldered to a piece of  waste etch. I took and easier route and soldered a backing piece and drilled a hole in the centre for the filler. After the sides were fitted the laminated top plate was then fitted on top.

And with the sandbox fillers soldered from the inside.

And the right way up.

To aid fitting to the running plate, I drill and tapped a whole 8BA in the centre of the top plate.  After marking out the position on the running plate and drilling a suitable hole, the saddle was screwed in place.

And then soldered.

After the saddle was soldered, the hole was reamed out to clear the screw, and a hole drilled and tapped 8 BA in the smoke box.  The boiler could then be screwed into place.

I also fitted an 8 BA nut into the firebox back plate and drilled a hole in the cab front so that the boiler cam is secured at the rear also. I haven’t decided if  I will leave it  removable or  solder it  to the  cab front, and  epoxy and  screw it  at the  smokebox.

And the boiler bands fitted.

Fitting the mud hole covers.

And the cover on the firebox on the contractor built engines. I have also started on the cab innards and got the floor and cab rear in place. The bunker/coal hole bulk head need quite a lot of filing at the top to get it to fit vertically. I’ve filed about an mm off it so far and it still slopes forward at the top. Work in progress.

Finally for now, I have fitted the etched surrounds to the steam pipes with epoxy for fitting later.

Cheers,

Peter

[Johng]

 

Here’s a snapshot from the instructions showing how the smokebox saddle is fabricated. There are 8 pieces excluding the sandbox fillers.  The two parts shown are the top plate (with half etch) and (according to the instructions) the base plate part 78. Dimensionally it is the same size as the top plate only thicker.  I’ve studied all the photos that show this area and no way is there a base plate.  In my opinion, whoever wrote the instructions forgot how it was meant to go together as part 78 is surely for laminating with the top plate which is too thin, being half etched. That’s how I decided to do it.

41.jpg

There are no easy build features here, so you have to figure out how to hold the sides, front and rear pieces together, keeping them square, and then solder them. The front piece has a couple slots into which two small webs have to be added. I decided to add duplicate slots in the rear piece, and then solder the webs across the front and rear, using a simple “jig” to keep them in line.

42.jpg

The two pieces to the  right  are the  sides which have  square holes for  the  sandbox fillers to be  fitted through and  soldered to a piece of  waste etch. I took and easier route and soldered a backing piece and drilled a hole in the centre for the filler. After the sides were fitted the laminated top plate was then fitted on top.

43.jpg

And with the sandbox fillers soldered from the inside.

44.jpg

And the right way up.

45.jpg

To aid fitting to the running plate, I drill and tapped a whole 8BA in the centre of the top plate.  After marking out the position on the running plate and drilling a suitable hole, the saddle was screwed in place.

46.jpg

And then soldered.

47.jpg

After the saddle was soldered, the hole was reamed out to clear the screw, and a hole drilled and tapped 8 BA in the smoke box.  The boiler could then be screwed into place.

48.jpg

I also fitted an 8 BA nut into the firebox back plate and drilled a hole in the cab front so that the boiler cam is secured at the rear also. I haven’t decided if  I will leave it  removable or  solder it  to the  cab front, and  epoxy and  screw it  at the  smokebox.

48b.jpg

48c.jpg

And the boiler bands fitted.

49.jpg

Fitting the mud hole covers.

50.jpg

And the cover on the firebox on the contractor built engines. I have also started on the cab innards and got the floor and cab rear in place. The bunker/coal hole bulk head need quite a lot of filing at the top to get it to fit vertically. I’ve filed about an mm off it so far and it still slopes forward at the top. Work in progress.

51.jpg

Finally for now, I have fitted the etched surrounds to the steam pipes with epoxy for fitting later.

52.jpg

Cheers,

Peter

 

 

Hi Peter,

 

Will play catch-up with this tomorrow lunchtime at work, just got back from wandering under the platforms on the Crossrail Project, nice bit of light relief.

 

John.

[david.hill64]

More to add to the list of instruction mods...............Keep up the good work!