Deliberately Old-Fashioned 0 Scale - Chapter 1

[Nearholmer]

There are a few retirement colonies in the USA that actually have model railway clubs, one of the layouts featured in 'Classic Toy Trains' a few months back, loads of old boys seeing out their days doing exactly what they'd done as young boys, which can't be all bad.

 

I'm roughly the same age as Simon, so am still a Junior Member when it comes to the Bassett Lowke Society, the average age of members being "prodigious". The HRCA isn't much different, although I think Dublo collectors, being a younger crowd, might move from Junior to Senior at about sixty.

[Nearholmer]

Anyway, this isnt really meant to be about the strange world of secondhand toy train pricing, its meant to be about playing with them, and we haven't had much of that for a while, so ........

 

My layout seems firmly stuck in the early BR period, with no very fixed location in space, but the "traffic pattern" in this mode seems to have settled down. Quick reminder of the topology:

 

The pattern that has emerged is a bit "Berrow-ish", for those who are into these things, with two basic passenger services:

 

- A longer-distance cross-country service from Somewhere In Another County to Birlstone. This uses corridor coaches, starts in the fiddle-yard, circulates according taste, then terminates at Birlstone. Engines for this need to carry a fair bit of coal, so 4-4-0 in the form of a Compound or Prince Charles, a Mogul, or one of the two big tank engines, the Stanier 2-6-4T or the Big Prairie;

 

- A Birlstone-Paltry Circus shuttle, using two non-corridor coaches, taking tail traffic in the form of a van or milk tanks when needed. At the moment, the Pannier is being used for this, but the ex-LNER 0-4-4T, and the Ace 4-4-2T that looks a bit like an ex-LBSCR I3 are equally suitable.

 

The goods service (one in each direction, each day) can be worked by the EE1000hp diesel, the 4F, or one of the BL Standard 0-6-0, and the little 204hp diesel is available to act as pilot, run the odd goods wagon to Paltry etc.

 

Using the bigger engines on the cross-country generates lots of light-engine movements to and from the turntable, which seems realistically inefficient.

 

What about all those Southern trains? Hmmm ......... that is a looming question. They made a brief appearance before Christmas, but they really aren't earning their keep.

 

I think the BR period has stuck for two reasons: I can just remember BR steam "in the wild"; and, a bigger factor, it allows me to run the real 1950s BL stuff in context, and I really do like mixing "old" and recent, its sort-f the point of coarse-scale.

 

So? Who knows.

Edited February 2, 2021 by Nearholmer

[F-UnitMad]

4 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

Anyway, this isnt really meant to be about the strange world of secondhand toy train pricing, its meant to be about playing with them, and we haven't had much of that for a while, so ........

 

My layout seems firmly stuck in the early BR period, with no very fixed location in space, but the "traffic pattern" in this mode seems to have settled down. Quick reminder of the topology:

 

The pattern that has emerged is a bit "Berrow-ish", for those who are into these things, with two basic passenger services:

 

- A longer-distance cross-country service from Somewhere In Another County to Birlstone. This uses corridor coaches, starts in the fiddle-yard, circulates according taste, then terminates at Birlstone. Engines for this need to carry a fair bit of coal, so 4-4-0 in the form of a Compound or Prince Charles, a Mogul, or one of the two big tank engines, the Stanier 2-6-4T or the Big Prairie;

 

- A Birlstone-Paltry Circus shuttle, using two non-corridor coaches, taking tail traffic in the form of a van or milk tanks when needed. At the moment, the Pannier is being used for this, but the ex-LNER 0-4-4T, and the Ace 4-4-2T that looks a bit like an ex-LBSCR I3 are equally suitable.

 

The goods service (one in each direction, each day) can be worked by the EE1000hp diesel, the 4F, or one of the BL Standard 0-6-0, and the little 204hp diesel is available to act as pilot, run the odd goods wagon to Paltry etc.

 

Using the bigger engines on the cross-country generates lots of light-engine movements to and from the turntable, which seems realistically inefficient.

 

What about all those Southern trains? Hmmm ......... that is a looming question. They made a brief appearance before Christmas, but they really aren't earning their keep.

 

I think the BR period has stuck for two reasons: I can just remember BR steam "in the wild"; and, a bigger factor, it allows me to run the real 1950s BL stuff in context, and I really do like mixing "old" and recent, its sort-f the point of coarse-scale.

 

So? Who knows.

Does that count as a "State of the Layouts" annual address?    

[Nearholmer]

More "thinking out loud" really, but you could view it as such.

 

I think satisfactory model railway operating routines take a bit of time to gel, which this one now seems to have. Way back up thread, I ran through a different one, using the Southern stock, which also works well, but the one that I devised pretending Birlstone was Buckingham, as a BR(W)/BR(M) frontier point, didn't.

 

What always comes home to me when playing trains properly is how much faffing-about was involved in running a real railway "in the classic period". Having a shuttle train arrive at Birlstone, run round, attach two milk tanks to the rear, and tuck into the bay, awaiting arrival of the connecting cross-country train involves multiple moves, taking much time, even in 1:43 scale, where there is no interlocking and without the need for brakes to be vacuumed-off etc.  Great fun on a toy train set - not so much fun on a cold January night in reality, I suspect.

[Donw]

7 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

More "thinking out loud" really, but you could view it as such.

 

I think satisfactory model railway operating routines take a bit of time to gel, which this one now seems to have. Way back up thread, I ran through a different one, using the Southern stock, which also works well, but the one that I devised pretending Birlstone was Buckingham, as a BR(W)/BR(M) frontier point, didn't.

 

What always comes home to me when playing trains properly is how much faffing-about was involved in running a real railway "in the classic period". Having a shuttle train arrive at Birlstone, run round, attach two milk tanks to the rear, and tuck into the bay, awaiting arrival of the connecting cross-country train involves multiple moves, taking much time, even in 1:43 scale, where there is no interlocking and without the need for brakes to be vacuumed-off etc.  Great fun on a toy train set - not so much fun on a cold January night in reality, I suspect.

 

How much better in the classic period to have all that faffing about.  That is the one thing about running the steam railmotor, it runs in. It runs out again. That's in. Yes it can be quite good for interrupting a shunt , making you cler the platform road. However two or three four wheelers a shphon and maybe even a horsebox. Well that's a few good moves in one train.

Regarding your Southern stock, are you thinking to run it with the BR stuff  possible in say 49/50  or would it be better to have  BR sessions and SR sessions  I would think if the later set the period up to say 52/53 and much of the goods stock would still be in pre BR liveires and could be left out.  Of course if you want to run really early or really modern stuff it could be tricky but Rule 1 always applies. Especially on old fashoined 0 scale.

 

Don

 

 

 

[Simond]

7 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

More "thinking out loud" really, but you could view it as such.

 

I think satisfactory model railway operating routines take a bit of time to gel, which this one now seems to have. Way back up thread, I ran through a different one, using the Southern stock, which also works well, but the one that I devised pretending Birlstone was Buckingham, as a BR(W)/BR(M) frontier point, didn't.

 

What always comes home to me when playing trains properly is how much faffing-about was involved in running a real railway "in the classic period". Having a shuttle train arrive at Birlstone, run round, attach two milk tanks to the rear, and tuck into the bay, awaiting arrival of the connecting cross-country train involves multiple moves, taking much time, even in 1:43 scale, where there is no interlocking and without the need for brakes to be vacuumed-off etc.  Great fun on a toy train set - not so much fun on a cold January night in reality, I suspect.

Economics, old chap.  If it were as much fun playing trains on the dining table as doing it 1:1 on a cold January night, either they’d have to pay us, or Mick Cash would be out of a job...

 

[Nearholmer]

8 hours ago, Donw said:

Of course if you want to run really early or really modern stuff it could be tricky but Rule 1 always applies. Especially on old fashoined 0 scale.

 

For no reason other than my own nerdiness, I like to have what might be called "internal consistency" in the nonsense being played-out on the layout, so even if the trains are small biscuit-tins with wheels, they need to be biscuit-tins of a consistent time and place, or a consistent something else. 

 

Several options are available:

 

1) pre-grouping southern area, using all modern-production locos, and nearly all modern-produced stock;

 

2) Big Four mash-up, using a combination of 1920/30s and modern-produced locos and stock. This theme is more about old toys than the prototype; it is where clockwork, and "fixing-up old locos" come into things;

 

3) Southern just either side of WW2. All modern-produced locos and stock, except for wagons;

 

4) Early-BR, which I described above, for which I have a very good 1950s Bassett-Lowke fleet, as well as modern-produced items, the geographical setting for which is a bit loose, but seems to be at a BR(W)/BR(M)/BR(E) frontier, somewhere in North Bucks or South Northants. Also seems to include a branch to a WD/MoD site.

 

The two themes which get the least layout-time are (1) and (3), and I think that is because I have hardly any genuinely old stuff that fits into them ...... TBH, if everything is going to be modern-production, one might as well go the whole hog and adopt finescale.

 

Oh, and there is also a random French goods train, and an equally random micro-collection of Controlled Clockwork, simply because I like them.

 

Anyway, enough already! I'm supposed to be doing paying work today, so I'd better get on with it.

[Compound2632]

9 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

4) Early-BR, which I described above, for which I have a very good 1950s Bassett-Lowke fleet, as well as modern-produced items, the geographical setting for which is a bit loose, but seems to be at a BR(W)/BR(M)/BR(E) frontier, somewhere in North Bucks or South Northants. Also seems to include a branch to a WD/MoD site.

 

I like the concept of a genuinely period layout; that is, a layout built with period equipment but depicting the then contemporary railway. 

[Nearholmer]

Yes, it "feels right", and if I were to get self-disciplined, which is something I find really difficult with toy trains, I could get 90% of the way with a few more small steps. 

 

I don't want to go to "period" track, though, because BL track used a raised conductor rail, which is overly restrictive of what can be run on it (one or two people have gone to the extent of "de-raising" the conductor rail on old track, which is a right taradiddle). And, genuine period buildings would be too restrictive, because BL produced so few, and so incredibly dull, in the 1950s, but "in the style" of would be OK.

 

February seems to be the time for these focus and self-discipline thoughts, last February I steeled myself and gave away the vast majority of my life-time book collection .........

 

Get on with your work, Kevin! You know that every hour you fritter this morning is an hour you'll need to work this evening!

[brianusa]

21 hours ago, Donw said:

Especially on old fashoined 0 scale.

 

Rule One is always enforced on an "old fashioned" O scale, at least on my layout and especially as a collector.  Which means that virtually anything purchased with a Hornby transfer on it qualifies! 

    Brian.

[Donw]

1 hour ago, brianusa said:

Rule One is always enforced on an "old fashioned" O scale, at least on my layout and especially as a collector.  Which means that virtually anything purchased with a Hornby transfer on it qualifies! 

    Brian.

 

If the wheels fit onto the rails is not a bad qualification.

 

Don

[Nearholmer]

Trainspotters at Birlstone got excited this evening, because they copped a namer. One of the Princes Charles was rostered on the cross-country service.

 

Can you see why I like inter-running old and new?

 

 

[brianusa]

Considering this is a bare boards layout, what real nice pictures!

       Brian.

[Donw]

The water tank takes me back. I had one which worked. It looks like that one might do too. The problem of course is a young child does not exactly understand that putting water into the loco may not be the best idea. 

 

Don

[Nearholmer]

This has got absolutely nothing to do with old-fashioned 0, and everything to do with pining for a proper summer holiday ........ watch, and feel all that sunshine. 

 

[Northroader]

There’s some pretty good permanent way work in there as well. Watching the track gang on Lyntonrail going round greasing fishplate bolts the other day, seems to be the other end of the scale. A trip to the seaside in the sun is very welcome.

[Nearholmer]

3 hours ago, Donw said:

The water tank takes me back.

 

That water tower is one of only two things that survived from first-childhood 0 gauge to second-childhood 0 gauge. It did once work, and got used, but became tatty. Somehow, it got left behind when all of the other tinplate went to the great marshalling-yard in the sky. I repainted in with green paint from Woolworths when I was in my early teens, and it hung around at my mother's house for c50 years thereafter. The other survivor is The Lead Sheep, which spends its time loafing-about in the goods yard, making derisive noises at the chaps heaving heavy things about - they only tolerate it because it saves them cutting the grass.

 

 

Edited February 4, 2021 by Nearholmer

[brumtb]

Thanks for showing the film, I must subscribe to the site.

Also reminds me to do some more work on my French narrow gauge layout!

[Ben B]

1 hour ago, Nearholmer said:

This has got absolutely nothing to do with old-fashioned 0, and everything to do with pining for a proper summer holiday ........ watch, and feel all that sunshine. 

 

 

Oh, why did you have to show me that?

 

Not only am I pining for the seaside now, but that's fired up ideas for at least two layouts!  Something simple in the larger scales, trains terminating right at the dunes at a basic run-round loop...  The one with the top-and-tailed draisines looks really interesting too!  Nice to see a little line like that still serving a public transport purpose, with the minimum of stock and fuss.  Hard to imagine anything quite like that running in the UK, at least on the mainland, but puts me in mind of the old Wickham inspection-trolley train they used to run on the Alderney Railway prior to the current tube carriages/diesel shunter operation.  I wonder... little train of modified Bachmann Wickhams, maybe a Hornby R&H 48ds as the only loco...

 

, I really didn't need the distraction!  But thanks anyway

 

(Incidentally, as you're thinking of the coast and holidays, could you move your geographically-mobile 0 layout to the seaside?  A time/space shift to somewhere on the South Coast, holiday trains depositing crowds of little metal figures with their buckets and spades and beachballs for a day at the seaside?  I gather summer comes soonest on the Southern and all that!)

 

[Nearholmer]

Ah, well you see we are ever-ready here to deploy a French beach railway at a few seconds notice. 
 

I supply rolling stock and track (adapted LGB), and young daughter supplies people in swimsuits, deckchairs, parasols, a cafe, and  a swimming-pool (Playmobil).

 

Sand is the only problem - we aren’t allowed it indoors.

 

The wagon serves as a combination of ticket-office and mobile creperie.

 

CF de le Tapis.

 

 

 

Edited February 4, 2021 by Nearholmer

[Ben B]

7 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

Ah, well you see we are ever-ready here to deploy a French beach railway at a few seconds notice. 
 

I supply rolling stock and track (adapted LGB), and young daughter supplies people in swimsuits, deckchairs, parasols, a cafe, and  a swimming-pool (Playmobil).

 

Sand is the only problem - we aren’t allowed it indoors.

 

The wagon serves as a combination of ticket-office and mobile creperie.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Very nice- I suspect my two youngest foster-daughters could supply enough Playmobil to create such a scene, though not sure my little Belfast-sink wildlife pond would prove quite such a tourist draw as the real French coastline

 

That's a really nice wagon, did it start life as a Playmobil roadworks-type trailer, or is it scratch-built please?

 

[Nearholmer]

It is an LGB body, but I think it’s the same moulding that Playmobil sell. It came on a chassis that was way over-scale, so I changed the chassis, wheels and couplers, and repainted/rusted it.

 

The loco is also LGB, modified and repainted to make it closer to the prototype.

Edited February 4, 2021 by Nearholmer

[Donw]

I am rather fortunate here when the lockdowns are finally over I can walk down to the station by the Harbour and take the train  to Blue Anchor.

 

I think the way things are going foreign holidays may not be on this year but maybe you will be able to go to Bishops Lydiard (a short distance from Taunton, and take a trip to the seaside.

 

Don

[Nearholmer]

Last year, we had plans for camping week down your way at whitsun half-term, and river tickets for the WSR booked and paid.

 

That didn’t happen.

[Metropolitan H]

4 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

This has got absolutely nothing to do with old-fashioned 0, and everything to do with pining for a proper summer holiday ........ watch, and feel all that sunshine. 

 

Well that was a pleasent memory trigger - back 33.5 years to Sunday 2nd August 1987 and a holiday day trip to the 'Ecomusee de la Grande Lande "Marqueze" Sabres (Landes)' - see pictures below. The museum was as good as the railway.

 

As the morning was cool and damp, going inland to the Ecomusee and the railway - the only way to get to the museum in those days - was a good idea! Added to which it was a Sunday - the only day of the week they ran steam locos at that time. However, I know of Nearholmer's penchant for the American centre-cab Bo-Bos so thought the loco portrait picture to scan should be the big diesel.

 

 

 

 

We never got to see any of the other lines shown in the video, but we did go up LaRhune on the rather marvellous electric rack line with the old wooden "matchboard sided" electric locos and coaches.

 

That was a good holiday.

 

Regards

Chris H