Deliberately Old-Fashioned 0 Scale - Chapter 1

[Northroader]

[Nearholmer]

It’s about time we had another picture.

 

Still in 1955 on the layout.

[GRASinBothell]

Trying to work out what the loco is.

Outside cylinders, so it can't be an Ace E/1 or E/2...

What is it?

Gordon

[Nearholmer]

Ah, it’s the Bassett Lowke Standard 0-6-0T.

 

The main reason the layout has migrated to 1955 is that the postwar BL locos are then entirely at home. With open-frame, three-pole motors they aren’t as smooth-starting  as their more modern brethren, but there is something satisfying about running the service largely with old trains - very poor range of coaches though, in that BL only made one type postwar, and Hornby’s efforts were purely toys. Wagons are easier, in that the Hornby No.50 were pretty good and in reasonable variety.

[rockershovel]

What power supply do you use? AC or DC?

[Nearholmer]

DC.

 

I’m not into Hornby locos, except for a couple of clockwork ones, and BL were early adopters of permanent magnet 12V DC motors as standard, something which they were trying even before WW1, although not totally successfully at that stage. They did make locos with 20V wound-field motors, but not all that many after about 1930, and pre-WW2 they also made Junior Permag motors, a cheaper and very fragile 6 to 8V permanent magnet motor intended for layouts run from radio batteries, but they are best avoided IMO.
 

The postwar BL locos, the only ones I can afford, have magnets that seem to remain decently magnetic in the long-term ....... all of mine run at c750mA 5V with no train, and c1100mA 7V with a draggy three coach train, which isn’t at all bad for things that are now of retirement age.

 

I’ve added a very confusing advert below ....... not only does the main list of “movements” omit the standard permag, but in the price schedule the standard permag is said to be for AC, which would kill it stone dead!

 

Edited November 4, 2019 by Nearholmer

[St Enodoc]

11 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

It’s about time we had another picture.

 

Still in 1955 on the layout.

I do like those signals.

[Donw]

I wonder if 5304/0 Described as AC 8-10v  with a Permag motor had a rectifier on board. A reversing switch in the cab could have changed the armature connections to reverse.

 

Don

[Nearholmer]

Signals: BL again.

 

What I still haven’t drawn is a signal box diagram for this side of the layout, because the track layout is so bizarre that it needs either zillions of signals, or signals with route indicator boxes, and I’m deeply uncertain about practice in that area.

 

I should take courage in both hands, and draw something for everyone to critique.

 

AC Motor: I’ve never heard of a rectifier on board a model loco in the 1930s (examples will now emerge from all sides!), and given how big rectifiers even low-rated rectifiers usually were pre-diode, I’d be surprised to learn it was done. I think it’s simply a typo.

Edited November 4, 2019 by Nearholmer

[Nearholmer]

OK, here is a scribbly sketch while I eat my lunch. The scribbles indicate my uncertainty!

 

Distants, outer homes, and shunting signals omitted (they only exist in mental space), and I’m aware that there really ought to be a couple of traps that don’t exist.

 

Key point is that there are no signalled moves direct from the Paltry Circus Branch to the station, or vice versa, both to simplify signalling and to avoid cheating when running a service. You’ll also note that there is no passing loop on the main line, which is because there isn’t room for one.

 

The only signal giving entry to the PC branch is the splitting-starter shown in the photo above.

 

The main-line inner home on the far right needs either more arms, or a route indicator, and I favour the latter, because any train going into the station can be cautioned to a low speed by holding the arm for the diverging route ‘on’, setting the indicator, and pulling-off at the last moment.

 

Discuss.

 

 

[PaulRhB]

 

 

I’d suggest moving your bracket from A to B so the left arm for the bay and right arm for the main platform with a ground signal (real or imaginary for the loop at the top). A single signal would be fine at A as the entrance to the goods yard would be a ground signal too. You’d only want a main signal if it was something like a reception loop for the yard. 

Edited November 4, 2019 by PaulRhB

[Nearholmer]

Paul,

 

the right-bracketed signal that you’ve moved wasn’t intended to give entry to the goods yard; it gives entry to the branch to Paltry Circus. The goods yard is covered by a (currently totally imaginary) shunt signal.

 

And, I’m envisaging the routing into the platforms and loop at the station to be covered by a route indicator on the other bracketed signal. The inner home on the main line at the right.
 

There isn’t room to insert further signals without creating stopping places for trains that then end up with their tails dangling past the signal in rear.

 

Kevin

Edited November 4, 2019 by Nearholmer

[Nearholmer]

This might help.

 

The junction between the Paltry Branch and the Main, at the station throat.

 

The train is routed into Platform 2 (I think I need to make the route indicator bigger!); the arm second from right controls the route Down the Main; and, the signal on the branch gives a route Down the Main, not into the station.

 

Catalogue pages from two different dates describe the train better than I could.

[Metropolitan H]

If you could move that bracket signal away from the main circuit it would stop it from being up-rooted by the pantographs on a visiting HAG Re4/4.

 

Regards

Chris H

[Donw]

It is rather an unusual track plan but could be worked properly and be fun.  A few comments;

 

I am a little uneasy about the private siding I see you have the turnout set normal for the siding which protects the main line,  however some movement in the private siding could then run back into the station so there would be a trap there (obviously it exists but is just missed off the plan )

The line rom the turntable would also be trapped comments as above

Your operating choice that no move between Paltry Circus and the Birlstone platforms is allowed could be cater for by the signalling and also the two turnouts onto  the main would be interlocked so that only on can be set to allowed entry/exit to/from the main at a time.

The two platform starters would probably be on a Bracket Signal post but I see in the photo you already have the separate signals

I would probably add ground signals to control exit from the turntable and the nearside sidings onto the main

That only really needs to sort out the signalling into the Birlstone platforms. Yes one of those route indicator boxes under the signal exiting from the main to Birlstone (i.e. the Bracket Signal on the main)  would do the job alternatively I think it would be ok to have two arms on the shorter bracket post one for the bay and one for the main platform  and not have access into the run round loop signalled. Possibly Station Master Mike would rap my knuckles for that but it does seem reasonable. Drivers would learn the route and knowwhich was signalling to which.

Regarding the ground signals suggested I feel in 7mm ground signals need to work and if not would be better left out ( assuming your other signals are actually worked). Any move not signalled would be assumed under the control of a flag from the signalman.

Would you like a suggested locking plan?

Don

[brianusa]

One of the main faults with Hornby tinplate is the comparative dearth of signals.  Also their proximity to one another seems as though they are sprouting randomly.  I have starters, home and outer homes in the junction station with the basic junction signal controlling sidings, etc, and it looks a bit crowded but I suppose that's what toy trains are all about.

     Brian.

Edited November 5, 2019 by brianusa

[St Enodoc]

6 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

This might help.

 

The junction between the Paltry Branch and the Main, at the station throat.

 

The train is routed into Platform 2 (I think I need to make the route indicator bigger!); the arm second from right controls the route Down the Main; and, the signal on the branch gives a route Down the Main, not into the station.

 

Catalogue pages from two different dates describe the train better than I could.

"The model is based on actual practice although not actually a reproduction of any particular class".

 

Just think of the trouble a statement like that would cause nowadays...

[rockershovel]

8 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

This might help.

 

The junction between the Paltry Branch and the Main, at the station throat.

 

The train is routed into Platform 2 (I think I need to make the route indicator bigger!); the arm second from right controls the route Down the Main; and, the signal on the branch gives a route Down the Main, not into the station.

 

Catalogue pages from two different dates describe the train better than I could.

 

Is that a hand-written note, in green ink, denoting £1 15s 8d as $5.05? If so, and the $ are USD, that indicates an exchange rate of $2.80 = £1, the denoted rate of the 1949 devaluation. 

 

[Simond]

Marketing-speak

 

They said

 

     "The model is based on actual practice although not actually a reproduction of any particular class"

 

They meant

 

     “it has the outline of a steam engine and runs on flanged wheels”

 

I think it’s quite handsome.

 

atb

Simon

[St Enodoc]

1 hour ago, Simond said:

Marketing-speak

 

They said

 

     "The model is based on actual practice although not actually a reproduction of any particular class"

 

They meant

 

     “it has the outline of a steam engine and runs on flanged wheels”

 

I think it’s quite handsome.

 

atb

Simon

I agree Simon. I was referring, obliquely, to the war of words that seems to be going on elsewhere on RMweb regarding Hatton's "generic" pre-grouping coaches.

[Nearholmer]

Met H

 

Tinsnips are kept available for trimming out of gauge loads to acceptable dimensions.

 

Don

 

I’m well aware of the two missing traps, and might even add some fake (non-working) ones using bits of scrap rail.

 

The signals work, in the sense that if you operate the levers on the posts they move, but neither points nor signals are centrally worked, and the interlocking exists only between my ears. Whether I will ever implement proper central control and interlocking, I’m not sure - I’d love to, but it would require so much physical interference with Vintage kit, which deserves not to be damaged, that I’m really wary.

 

if you want to cast out a locking plan, please do. I was going to do much the same myself, but I don’t know the drawing/notation conventions for signalling, so was going to do it as a simple truth table.

 

Rocker

 

Thanks for decoding the green scribble - I’ve been wondering what it meant. The date fits, in that the page comes from a 1950 catalogue.

 

Generic Engines

 

Just look at the dreaded generic 4W and 6W coaches thread! The big difference in “the old days” was that the price difference between generics and specifics was really pronounced, so that a 4F might cost four times the cost of this beast, which was already beyond the pocket of the ordinary working man (UK national average salary c£7/week in 1950,  so this generic cost getting on for a weeks gross pay!).

 

This 0-6-0 was the worst seller of the BL generics, I think because it is so uncompromisingly austere, but I think it captures the times to perfection.

 

 

Edited November 23, 2019 by Nearholmer

[St Enodoc]

4 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

Just look at the dreaded generic 4W and 6W coaches thread! 

No, don't do that. Trust me.

[sncf231e]

23 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

 

AC Motor: I’ve never heard of a rectifier on board a model loco in the 1930s (examples will now emerge from all sides!), and given how big rectifiers even low-rated rectifiers usually were pre-diode, I’d be surprised to learn it was done. I think it’s simply a typo.

 

As seen in another BL catalogue No. 5304/0 is indeed a DC locomotive:

 

But indeed there were 0 gauge locomotives with rectifiers in the thirties. Le Rapide used rectifiers (redresseur in French) for a period in their locomotives (including the "famous" Super Rapide 4-8-4 (which was a 4-4-4-4)). See this instruction sheet:

 

Regards

Fred

 

[Nearholmer]

How about that!

 

I love the way that the instructions even show a drawing of an element of the rectifier, and give a basic description of the physics.

 

Interestingly, this isn’t the application Don envisaged (to run a permag motor via a rectifier from an AC track supply), but the use of a rectifier in the armature circuit, to allow remote reversing of a wound-field motor from a DC track supply, which is a common modern conversion using a modern rectifier. LR must not have had access to good permanent magnets at a decent price.

 

I bet it got hot!

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 5, 2019 by Nearholmer

[rockershovel]

What does “can start from track” mean, as applied to a clockwork locomotive? 

 

Interesting to see the running distance advertised.. “every external detail faithfully reproduced” doesn’t appear to include the smokebox dart, I notice...

Edited November 5, 2019 by rockershovel