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Julian

Help! Hornby Sentinel diesel shunter with dead frog points?

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I'm planing a new (very) micro layout, based on Jack Trollope's "Jaxcilli Industries", as per one of the late Carl Arendt plan books. To save space, I'm thinking of using a new Hornby Sentinel diesel shunter and Peco's Set-Track points and diamond crossing, both "dead frog". Has anyone had experience of using this loco on dead-frog turnouts/crossings as the short wheelbase of the loco leads me to think it may stall on them. Thanks for any advice offered.

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I'm planing a new (very) micro layout, based on Jack Trollope's "Jaxcilli Industries", as per one of the late Carl Arendt plan books. To save space, I'm thinking of using a new Hornby Sentinel diesel shunter and Peco's Set-Track points and diamond crossing, both "dead frog". Has anyone had experience of using this loco on dead-frog turnouts/crossings as the short wheelbase of the loco leads me to think it may stall on them. Thanks for any advice offered.

 

Julian - had a sudden thought - I remember that Chris Nevard had one - I think it appeared on a small canalside layout (name escapes me) in BRM - who just happen to run/own this forum - so you may be able to contact hime through here

 

EDIT  -  Possible link point  = If you need to contact me, please email at [email protected]

NUVEREDIT - He is on FB  https://www.facebook.com/chrisnevard/

Edited by shortliner

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Hi Julian,

 

I don't have experience of running one of the Sentinel's on Set-track, but I have run them previously on Peco small radius insulfrog points without problem.  They seemed to cope with even fairly low (realistic?) speeds.

 

Hope that's of help.

 

Regards,

 

Alex.

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The most important thing when laying any track is to make sure that points are laid on a flat surface. If they are not then you'll get trouble, especially with very short wheelbase loco's. They will rock going over a point that is not completely flat, and as a result one set of wheels will not be in contact with the rails.

 

When one wheels is on the plastic frog, then this will result in the loco stalling! You can install extra pickup's and this will improve running. But well layed track this should not be required.

 

Eleanor

Edited by Eleanor Mentry

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Many thanks for helpful replies. Yes, I've done some testing ad my Bachman Pannier does not stall on the dead frogs but you're quite right, the points do need to be absolutely flat to the board, with no hint of "bowing". Thanks again.

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One detail to watch is where you put breaks in the rails beyond the frog. I put a rail break *exactly* the length of a 0-4-0 loco wheelbase away from the gap of a live frog point, and yes the loco stutters or stalls here every time here because both wheels on one side lose contact together. It never crossed my mind when I was cutting the gap.

 

- Richard.

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Hello Julian,

 

I was at a show last year and met a bloke who drove an 0-4-0 tank loco for a living.

He said unlike an 0-6-0 the 0-4-0 went down every undulation in the track and descended into the frog gaps in a rather alarming fashion, whether or not the point is flat makes no difference given the small wheels of most shunting locos.

What I'm leading up to is this, does your loco have some sort of compensation e.g. a pivot on the trailing axle, if it does then it will be OK sinking into the gaps, you will still have 3 wheels in contact with the rail.

Another answer might be to make your own points, it's quite easy and for the price on one you can build a dozen or so.

 

Cheers - Jim

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I don't have a Hornby Sentinel, but many smaller locos would struggle on a dead frog, due to their short wheelbase.
I've had problems with 08 shunters on live frogs, as soon as the wheels & track get a bit dirty etc

Could you fit a stay-alive decoder into the Sentinel? Does anyone know if there's enough space?
I fitted a stay-alive into a Hornby 08 shunter, and it runs incredibly. It's never stalled yet :O
You can even put a piece of paper over the track - the capacitor you get with these decoders stores enough power to keep the loco running...
Then your Sentinel would have no problems with dead frogs

Best of luck with it Julian :)

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The Hornby Sentinel seems reasonably forgiving with both both Hornby settrack and Peco Streamline insulfrog points.  And yes, completely flat pointwork is essential!

 

There's not much room in a Sentinel for the decoder, Hornby sell a special decoder for both the Sentinel and the Peckett tank loco, but it doesn't come with a stay-alive option.  Its possible with bodging and cutting to fit sound to these diminuitive beasts so a stay-alive decoder and associated capacitors must be possible, but it'll be additional work.

 

Why not just get one and try it out?  Hattons have the dark blue MSC and light blue Crossley and Evans livery Sentinels for £40 plus delivery  Kernow have the orange Balfour Beatty livery one at the same price less a penny...

 

Given what Hornby currently want for their trainset 0-4-0 locos, £40 is a minor miracle!

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Julian

 

If your loco's and stock all have wheels to the same standard, that the flange depth, then there is a much simpler solution. Add some plastic strip to the top of the plastic between the nose and the wing rails of the points and then carefully file it down, until the wheels just travel on the flanges.

 

Incidentally this is done, on the full size railway when the use steel forgings type crossings, not usually called frogs, on sets of points.

 

Julie

Edited by Steam_Julie

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that £40 loco looks tempting, but I only want it for a chassis. I had one of the ones without connecting rods and was not certain how much of the chassis could be taken apart.

 

Surely the answer to slow running is a decent flywheel type drive system. Even a heavy weight worm drive adds a lot of momentum, and Bachmann do that on a number of locos. Thought it would be essential for a shunting loco.

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I have a Sentinel away at a friend being sound fitted and he is attempting to fit a stay alive to it as well. If not the stay alive will live in a wagon and permanently coupled to the loco.

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