Track laying crane drawings and details

[Beatty 139]

Just wondering if anyone can point me in the right direction for drawings, information and photos for the WR track relaying crane in this film.

 

 

I have never seen one quite like this and it would look really well with my PWay stock I have built up.

[HGT1972]

Hello, I built one of these for my EM layout Morfa Bank Sidings. There were five of these interesting machines. Somewhere on Kier Hardy's EM Gauge 1970s site is a number of photos of the building sequence if that's any use.

 

The three WR examples were DW274 (later DRB78114); DW275 (later DRB78115 and DW276 (later DRB78116). All were built at Swindon in 1953 and they also built one for the ScR (TRM1/10, also numbered DB965311 and later DRB78100) and another for the ER (78/002, also numbered DB966480 and later DRB78104). They lasted until the mid to late 1970s. I never found any drawings and worked out the measurements form photos and the length of the track panels they worked with.

 

Hywel

 

[Fat Controller]

Thanks for posting that link: rare shots of a PWM in action. I wonder where it was filmed- something reminded me of the line around Pontrilas on the 'North and West'.

Not sure where you'd find drawings; I have seen similar machines based on former Warwells. For the cranes, the Coles cranes in the Airfix 'Airfield Recovery' set might be of used, which would leave having to scratchbuild the cabin with the operators and the generator.

Hywel posted whilst I was still typing- the site he refers to is this one:-

http://www.emgauge70s.co.uk/

Edited July 16, 2017 by Fat Controller

[phil gollin]

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That video shows that it was easier doing the real thing than modelling it.   

 

 

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.........    Not sure where you'd find drawings; I have seen similar machines based on former Warwells. For the cranes, the Coles cranes in the Airfix 'Airfield Recovery' set might be of used, which would leave having to scratchbuild the cabin with the operators and the generator.  .........

 

 

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This is one such machine ( I  THINK  it is based on a warwell ????? ).  From the David Heys collection, page 30)

 

http://www.davidheyscollection.com/userimages/00000-bob-hind-engineering-4L.jpg

 

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Edited July 17, 2017 by phil gollin

[Fat Controller]

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That video shows that it was easier doing the real thing than modelling it.   

 

 

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This is one such machine ( I  THINK  it is based on a warwell ????? ).  From the David Heys collection, page 30)

 

http://www.davidheyscollection.com/userimages/00000-bob-hind-engineering-4L.jpg

 

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It is indeed based on a Warwell, with two Coles (or possibly Jones) cranes; the Corgi model would serve for the cranes and jibs.

[Beatty 139]

Thanks for that some starting points, and some numbers to look at and see what I can dig up, hopefully somewhere there will be a Diagram for them, and someone will have a departmental diagram book, knowing they were built at Swindon might help as well.

[Fat Controller]

Thanks for that some starting points, and some numbers to look at and see what I can dig up, hopefully somewhere there will be a Diagram for them, and someone will have a departmental diagram book, knowing they were built at Swindon might help as well.

There are  very sketchy drawings on here:- http://www.barrowmoremrg.co.uk/Prototype.html

Go to the second version of BRB Vehicle Diagram Book 350 (Departmental and Service Stock), and have a dig. With the leading dimensions given, and some photos, you should be able to come up with something.

[phil gollin]

It is indeed based on a Warwell, with two Coles (or possibly Jones) cranes; the Corgi model would serve for the cranes and jibs.

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IF you expand the photo,  you will find that the wording at the top of the jibs is "Coles" (AND, that the photo is the wrong way around !)

 

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[Fat Controller]

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IF you expand the photo,  you will find that the wording at the top of the jibs is "Coles" (AND, that the photo is the wrong way around !)

 

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I did notice that the 'Es' on the 'van was reversed. I didn't notice the 'COLES' lettering, just that the jib wasn't Coles' normal bright yellow. It would be relatively easy to model, with shortening the jibs being the tricky bit. 

[Beatty 139]

The Southern one looks like it has two standard coles Diesel electric cranes and I presume two drivers, it's the WR one I'm keen on especially at it matches my current stock and would make an excuse to build a PWM!

[Beatty 139]

I had a look through the '350' diagram books but they both look too modern for the cranes in the film, and a lot of variation between them, as they have DW departmental numbers would this suggest they were built by the GWR as if they were BR built wouldn't they be DB or did that come later?

[HGT1972]

The five WR TRUs were built by BR at Swindon in 1953. There was a huge variety of TRUs - the first was built in 1947 on an American-built Warflat for the SR and was, unsurprisingly, numbered TRU1 (later DRB78008). The Coles-based pair as mentioned by Brian were also SR-based machines but dated from 1962. TRU6 (later DRB78117) was built on Warwell DM721234 and TRU7 (later DRB78118) was on Warwell DM721282. They had modified cabs to fit within the loading gauge so a tweaked Oxford Coles crane might work?

 

Another nice model might be DRB78112, built in 1970. This was once TRM13 on the LMR and again based on a Warwell (Hattons or Oxford?) DM748306 but used a pair of British Hoist & Crane Iron Fairey Saphire cranes just like the old Matchbox models that crop up regularly at Swapmeets going cheap. The former wheel wells featured very obvious plating too.

 

Hywel

[HGT1972]

....or even the CORGI Coles crane rather than Oxford! I should know - I have one on the workbench awaiting some work! I think the Airfix Coles is a much earlier and lighter version so might need more work to modify as one of those two SR TRUs.

 

Hywel

[Fat Controller]

....or even the CORGI Coles crane rather than Oxford! I should know - I have one on the workbench awaiting some work! I think the Airfix Coles is a much earlier and lighter version so might need more work to modify as one of those two SR TRUs.

 

Hywel

I think the Airfix one is something like a 4-tonner, the Corgi one being about twice that.

[Beatty 139]

Sadly I don't have an option of using other people cranes as I model in Gauge 1 so have to work a careful balance of rivet counting over presumed detail.One thing I have to say I loved from the film was the fact they were hand cranked for the slew, it's a scratch build job all the way for me except for the bogies in most likeliness.

[hmrspaul]

Sadly I don't have an option of using other people cranes as I model in Gauge 1 so have to work a careful balance of rivet counting over presumed detail.One thing I have to say I loved from the film was the fact they were hand cranked for the slew, it's a scratch build job all the way for me except for the bogies in most likeliness.

 

My photos of unpowered two jib cranes are here http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brtwinjibcrane

 

Paul

[Trog]

I remember working with TRM13 usually came out with an 08 shunter for propulsion, could take quite a while to get to sites remote from the sidings in which the 08 and TRM were stabled.

To use it you were very dependent on the skill of the 08 and TRM drivers, who were usually good. Which they needed to be with men pushing panels of between 5 and 10 tons in weight into line with the previous one so the fish plates could be fitted while they dangled from the TRM.

[L49]

The Southern one looks like it has two standard coles Diesel electric cranes and I presume two drivers, it's the WR one I'm keen on especially at it matches my current stock and would make an excuse to build a PWM!

 

 

I had a look through the '350' diagram books but they both look too modern for the cranes in the film, and a lot of variation between them, as they have DW departmental numbers would this suggest they were built by the GWR as if they were BR built wouldn't they be DB or did that come later?

 

Hi Beatty,

 

I have been looking for details and drawings of the early track layers myself, as my Grandad was responsible for the Eastern region one when it was first brought into use until he got fed up with working every night and weekend, and opted for a job with Charringtons brewery instead. I've trawled through the online diagram books, as you have, and come up with nothing. I might be able to offer a bit of detail on the Southern one though, as the WR one was the odd one out of the four, the ER, SR, and LMR all being largely the same, although details differences in the donor wagons mean that each was technically unique.

 

I believe they used a form of hydraulic winch which was housed in each cab. Photos of the three at work show them running with a converted bogie bolster which supported diesel powered compressors and other equipment which were connected to the tracklayer by flexible hoses. The jibs were manually wound out and secured before work started, the track centre being set by adjusting the jib length. It was impossible to move or alter the jibs during work. The counterweight on the two cab version was carried amidships, and this also had to be manually shifted to the appropriate side before work started. They were actually driven from one cab, each one having the ability to control the opposite end as well as itself, in that, the famous Cuneo poster was wrong, as it shows drivers in both ends. Grandad was not impressed, especially as he remembered Cuneo visiting Leyton yard to sketch and ask questions about the beast before going on to paint the picture.

 

I'm aware that this is going a bit off topic, but I am quite excited in the hope that research for the WR vehicle might bring to light some more information on the ER one. See the link below for a lovely shot of our one in action at Stoke Newington. Unfortunately these were taken after Grandad was tempted away by the brewery, but it is a lovely sequence of pictures of his old machine.

 

http://www.nrm.org.uk/ourcollection/photo?group=Liverpool%20Street&objid=1995-7233_LIVST_EL_256

 

Good luck, and if I find anything relevant in my researches, I'll post it here.

Charlie

Edited July 18, 2017 by L49

[Gordon A]

Interesting that the relaying cranes referred to by L49 each have there own driver, while the Western version was controlled from a central cab by one man.

I wonder if this was a case of different manufacturers?

 

Gordon A

[Beatty 139]

Having looked through Paul Bartlett's photos there is a whole lot of variation between them, two Swindon built examples are shown one WR and one built Swindon for the ER of the type in the film, they are defiantly on purpose built underframes unlike some of the others. I'm surprised that they hadn't got a diagram, I might need to see if I can fined a earlier diagram book from the 60's or early 70's the one photo of Paul's is dated 75 and it looks like the one jib is removed.

[jonhall]

The early TRU's, particularly the Southern ones are rather Heath Robinson, however having proved the benefit, the later bespoke ones become more sophisticated, moving from unpowered wagons with separately operated cranes, (and road cranes fixed to the decks) to self propelled single man operation units.

 

Jon

[Ken.W]

There's photos of 3 of these in D Larkin's 'BR Dept. Rolling Stock' Pictorial Survey (Bradford Barton) p 44,45.

First, TRU1, a Heath Robinson looking prototype unit

Then TRU6, a Warwell with a Coles crane stuck on each end

Finally TRU9, more of the later BR 'standard' design. These later machines were more sophisticated, with both cranes operated from the central cabin, and capable of self-propelled operation when working on site, though they'd still be conveyed to / from site by the p.way trains.

 

I posted in an earlier thread the usual relaying procedures that I observed late 70s / early 80s using these TJTL  (Twin Jib Track Layer) machines as they were known, particularly in relation to the formation of p.way trains working to / from the work site. Significant differences to the film were the old track being completely removed first, not wagon load at a time, and the track-bed ballast being replaced before the new track was laid.

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/74698-br-departmentalengineering-trains-in-the-late-50searly-60s/page-2&do=findComment&comment=2523065  posts 35 / 39

[L49]

Interesting that the relaying cranes referred to by L49 each have there own driver, while the Western version was controlled from a central cab by one man.

I wonder if this was a case of different manufacturers?

 

Gordon A

 

From what Grandad related to me, they were actually (officially) single manned, although the photos of the Leyton tracklayer at Stoke Newington shows one driver in the leading cab, plus probably the supervisor and a fitter in the far cab. There is a wonderful bit of film in the BTF collection of the Leyton machine at work somewhere (I think) on the LTS, with Grandad in his best supervisory role, riding up and down sat on the deck of the compressor wagon!

 

As for manufacturer, as far as I know they were all built in house. It seems that the LMR one was the earliest, and may just have been built by the LMS. There are some grotty photos of it at work by Watford tunnel which turned up online which claim to be taken in 1947. Early on, both this one and the SR one did not have an enclosed cab, but an open framework supporting the jibs. They must have been hellish to work! It looks like they were enclosed in the early 50s. The Leyton one might have been a later addition, as in 1951 Grandad had to travel to Newton Heath to collect it, and always reckoned it was brand new.

 

Anyway, this is in danger of becoming a thread hijack, for which I apologise. Let's just hope that the drawings for all these machines turn up, as well as all the other oddments of early on-track plant.

 

Edited to add: Sorry, I couldn't resist posting this link to the SR machine working in as built condition at Waterloo!

 

 

Enjoy, especially the H&S aspect of the bloke guiding the panels into place by jumping off the platform and walking underneath each section holding onto a bit of rope!

Edited July 19, 2017 by L49

[HGT1972]

The SR example, TRU1 (DRB78008) was the very first TRU and, yes, was developed pre-Nationalisation. It was built by the Southern Railway during late 1947 on a 40ft American Warflat and was designed initially for a relaying job within the confines of Polhill Tunnel near Shoreham. The two hoist beams were positioned at 40ft centres and, as mentioned earlier in the thread, the cranes were counterbalanced using a moveable ­platform loaded with 17-tons of rails that ran across the width of the wagon to suit the lift.

 

The Waterloo film is great! That was filmed during July 1948 during the relaying of Platform 5 at Waterloo. The 'Watford Tunnel Job' (sounds like an Ealing film!) was over two weekends during February 1949 between Watford and Kings Langley and the TRU was actually the SR one lent by them to the LMR for the work. The first ER example dated from 1951 with the LMR getting their first three machines TRM1/2/3 (later DRB78004/5/6) in 1951, all built on Warwells.

 

Great thread!

 

Hywel

[unravelled]

 

Grayrigg 1966

 

Dave