Useful modification for Roco and Hornby couplers

[Dunsignalling]

I may not be the first to have stumbled upon this idea, but I've not seen it mentioned before, so here goes.

 

Whilst refurbishing a set of five detailed Bachmann Bulleid coaches that I fitted with Keen close-coupling units some years ago, I decided to replace the original manual links within the set (I use Kadees at the ends) with Roco 40271 coupler heads to make life easier when assembling trains in the fiddle yard. I have done this as a matter of course with newer stock and this is just a case of bringing the older ones into line.

 

As I don't need them to uncouple over ramps, I remove the metal uncoupling loop by gently pulling it out from the top with a small pair of pliers.

 

The only thing I don't like about these couplers is that they hang rather low and are quite noticeable between the coaches. 

 

Quite by accident, I reassembled one coach with the head inserted upside down and realised that it didn't foul anything on the underframe, so repeated the "error" on its neighbour and discovered that, minus the loop, they work perfectly well inverted. The whole rake looks much better with the couplers tucked up tighter underneath.

 

I'm not certain that this will work with all CCU-equipped coaches, but I've done it on my new Bachmann Birdcage set and they are fine, too. 

 

The dodge also works with the similar (but longer) Hornby R.8220 coupler heads.

 

John

Edited November 5, 2017 by Dunsignalling

[Dunsignalling]

Further applied the treatment to some Hornby Maunsells and LMS non-corridors today, and they are fine too.

 

John

Edited November 5, 2017 by Dunsignalling

[Dunsignalling]

Some further useful discussion on this subject is to be found in the thread on the Bachmann SECR Birdcage stock, where it is steadily pulling the original topic off-course.

 

All comments regarding the use of "upside-down" Roco couplers on Bachmann Mk1s or any other stock, will be gratefully welcomed in this thread.

 

John

Edited November 19, 2017 by Dunsignalling

[Limpley Stoker]

Some further useful discussion on this subject is to be found in the thread on the Bachmann SECR Birdcage stock, where it is steadily pulling the original topic off-course.

 

All comments regarding the use of "upside-down" Roco couplers on Bachmann Mk1s or any other stock, will be gratefully welcomed in this thread.

 

John

As the guilty party on the SECR Birdcage thread I now see you had the idea long before I did!

 

Bachmann Mk 1 s aside I have found no other problems with the inverted Roco couplings, though I have been using the Hornby version and not removing the loops, which are plastic.

 

In the normal position I though they resembled the bulky N guage standard coupling.

 

Another fix for the Bachmann Mk 1 I shall try is to cement a second NEM pocket to the underside of the fitted one to lower the coupling height by 2 mm or so.

[RFS]

The Bachmann MK1s close-couple extremely well with the Hornby Roco-coupling, the genuine Roco one being too short.  I close-couple all my MK1s in sets and have Kadee 19s or 20s on the ends. You get a pair of Hornby-Roco couplings "free" with every Maunsell, Pullman coach etc. 

 

The fact that the pockets are too high is of no consequence internally within sets as both coaches have matching height differences. 

 

They will not auto-couple - you have to sometimes lift the two bogies off the track slightly to get them to engage. But once engaged they work faultlessly.

[Dunsignalling]

The Bachmann MK1s close-couple extremely well with the Hornby Roco-coupling, the genuine Roco one being too short.  I close-couple all my MK1s in sets and have Kadee 19s or 20s on the ends. You get a pair of Hornby-Roco couplings "free" with every Maunsell, Pullman coach etc. 

 

The fact that the pockets are too high is of no consequence internally within sets as both coaches have matching height differences. 

 

They will not auto-couple - you have to sometimes lift the two bogies off the track slightly to get them to engage. But once engaged they work faultlessly.

Agreed, with the proviso that they won't match up to anything but other Bachmann Mk1s.

 

Some of mine run in a mixed rake with Hornby Gresleys, so have the Keen links in place of the originals to make them compatible.

 

John

[phil-b259]

People should also note that Roco do a version if the close coupler that is height adjustable. See http://www.gaugemaster.com/item_details.asp?code=RC40287&style=&strType=&Mcode=Roco+40287

 

Due to the height flexibility, this particular version is the same length as the Hornby one - so if you need to couple a Bachmann Mk1 to, say a Hornby Maunsell coach (fitted with the standard Roco offering), it can be adjusted to get the coupling at the right height.

[westie7]

The roco 40287 is what fits in the Vitrains class 37 'pockets' Just saying

[RFS]

I used Symoba close-coupling system for my Bachmann Bulleids, and these also are height-adjustable.  You choose your own coupling and I've used Hornby-Roco ones, making it easy to connect the Bulleids with MK1s. 

 

See http://www.dccsupplies.com/search/results/?search=symoba

[Dunsignalling]

The roco 40287 is what fits in the Vitrains class 37 'pockets' Just saying

It is indeed, and the suggested application for Bachmann Mk1s is most welcome, though largely too late for me.

 

I was fairly "anti" the Bachmann CCU back in the day having experienced their various "foibles" when fitted with Kadees and attempted more than one unsuccessful home-brewed solution to their misbehaviour.

 

When the Keen links came out, I embraced them wholeheartedly and busily fitted them, along with their fixed buckeye couplers as quickly as I could.

 

I didn't get into using the Roco heads until Hornby started fitting CCUs, by which time all my Bachmann Mk1s had already been re-equipped.

 

John

Edited November 20, 2017 by Dunsignalling

[RFS]

It is indeed, and the suggested application for Bachmann Mk1s is most welcome, though largely too late for me.

 

 

 

I would suggest the Roco 40287 coupling, being approximately the same length as their normal coupling, will be too short for Bachmann MK1s. 

[phil-b259]

I would suggest the Roco 40287 coupling, being approximately the same length as their normal coupling, will be too short for Bachmann MK1s. 

 

No its not!

 

When you put a 40287 coupling next to the 'standard' length Roco one, the 40287 is a couple of mm longer.

 

Put a 40287 coupler next to the Hornby one and they are identical in length terms.

 

As someone mentioned Keen products, if you by their coupler designed to correct the NEM coupling location and put it where it should be, then regular Roco couplers will work fine.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

...I'm not certain that this will work with all CCU-equipped coaches, but I've done it on my new Bachmann Birdcage set and they are fine, too... 

 

 It's a great discovery, and it will work on all the four wheel bogie Pullman coaches I own, Hornby's K types in matchboard, flush sided and all steel flavours: Bach's Metcamms (in common with all the earlier mk1s) requiring either clearance cut in the centre of the bufferbeam, or correct height pockets arranged by whichever of the methods available is preferred.

 

Where do we nominate for 'Cost free good idea of the Year'?

[Dunsignalling]

 It's a great discovery, and it will work on all the four wheel bogie Pullman coaches I own, Hornby's K types in matchboard, flush sided and all steel flavours: Bach's Metcamms (in common with all the earlier mk1s) requiring either clearance cut in the centre of the bufferbeam, or correct height pockets arranged by whichever of the methods available is preferred.

 

Where do we nominate for 'Cost free good idea of the Year'?

Along with so many "discoveries", it happened more through chance than intent, but I'm glad to hear others appreciate how such a simple 'tweak' improves the look of stock so treated. 

 

John

Edited November 25, 2017 by Dunsignalling

[John Tomlinson]

Very helpful ideas indeed, I'm currently pondering a coupling solution to some mainline Hornby Maunsells, and this could well be it!

 

John.

[Limpley Stoker]

As I run my trains at eye level I have sought to improve the appearance of the inverted couplings further by adding a representation of brake and heating pipes. As the Roco coupling has a long lateral surface it is possible to attach pipes with contact adhesive so that the coupling mechanism still works and the pipes appear to run from coach to coach. I have used green wire so the photos should be self explanatory .

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

Mike's further development is clearly illustrative of the lack of development by OO manufacturers of RTR autocouplers, specifically designed to suit OO with a view to both efficient autocoupler function and best possible appearance.

 

We have 'got lucky' in my opinion with the Kadee, insofar as it does look decently like the knuckle couplers used widely in the UK since C19th, (and if the user chooses it may be mounted in the right place) which functions efficiently as an autocoupler.

 

But there is a clear gap for a RTR autocoupler product which has something of the appearance of three link and screwlink, and might incorporate representations of appropriate hoses too.

 

I am no great shakes as a small mechanism designer (know your weaknesses) otherwise I would have long ago have had a try at it... There must be a product opportunity here?

[Dunsignalling]

As I run my trains at eye level I have sought to improve the appearance of the inverted couplings further by adding a representation of brake and heating pipes. As the Roco coupling has a long lateral surface it is possible to attach pipes with contact adhesive so that the coupling mechanism still works and the pipes appear to run from coach to coach. I have used green wire so the photos should be self explanatory .

Very neat, Mike. My to-do list lengthening yet again..........

 

John

Edited November 25, 2017 by Dunsignalling

[Limpley Stoker]

I have managed to close couple most of my Maunsell corridor coaches with inverted Roco 40270 couplers ( having unclipped the corridor covers) but found uncoupling difficult as the coaches cannot be lifted to uncouple.

I have found the solution to be by using a flat object like a nail file to press down on the uncoupling loops on top of the couplings - I’m glad I didn’t chop them off!

[Dunsignalling]

Mine have been fitted with paper gangways and I've not had a problem uncoupling them.

 

Lifting them does feel very stiff, initially, making one a little uneasy but they do loosen up over time.

 

I've done it with a Maunsell pull-push set on my mate's layout which I'll be visiting on Sunday and haven't noticed any difficulty. However, they'd been in traffic for some time with the couplers right-way-up before I turned them over so they were probably "run in" already.

 

When Xmas is done and I have time and space to dig some out, I'll try it with a pair of unaltered coaches and new couplers.

 

John

Edited December 15, 2017 by Dunsignalling

[Dunsignalling]

Just applied new Roco couplers, modified and inverted as discussed, to the new Hornby 59' Bulleid coaches.

 

As I expected given Hornby's re-use of most of the Maunsell underpinnings, they work fine.

 

As before, uncoupling by lifting one coach-end was a bit stiff to begin with but becomes easier with use.

 

John  

Edited July 19, 2019 by Dunsignalling

[Dunsignalling]

On ‎21‎/‎11‎/‎2017 at 00:00, phil-b259 said:

 

No its not!

 

When you put a 40287 coupling next to the 'standard' length Roco one, the 40287 is a couple of mm longer.

 

Put a 40287 coupler next to the Hornby one and they are identical in length terms.

 

As someone mentioned Keen products, if you use their coupler links designed to correct the NEM coupling location, then regular Roco couplers will work fine.

 

Last paragraph edited for clarity. (Sorry Phil, I thought it was one of my posts...)

 

Edited July 19, 2019 by Dunsignalling

[roythebus]

On 25/11/2017 at 11:24, Limpley Stoker said:

As I run my trains at eye level I have sought to improve the appearance of the inverted couplings further by adding a representation of brake and heating pipes. As the Roco coupling has a long lateral surface it is possible to attach pipes with contact adhesive so that the coupling mechanism still works and the pipes appear to run from coach to coach. I have used green wire so the photos should be self explanatory .

One problem with this is that on the prototype the pipes cross diagonally. Vac pipes on the left, steam heat on the right when you look at the end of the coach.

 

[roythebus]

I tried some of the Kean products a few years back and wasn't over-impressed by them as they didn't have the centering return spring. Maybe they work ok with the Kean dummy buckeye, but didn't work that well with Kadees. But I might give them another try with the Roco/Hornby KKs.

[Limpley Stoker]

47 minutes ago, roythebus said:

One problem with this is that on the prototype the pipes cross diagonally. Vac pipes on the left, steam heat on the right when you look at the end of the coach.

 

Good point, but I’ll accept the inaccuracy as it’s only seen in profile.