Great Southern Railway (Fictitious) - Signalling the changes...

[Skinnylinny]

More wooden models today, although rather less technologically advanced!

Many moons ago, I managed to acquire from eBay a set of 4mm scale SE&CR birdcage carriages. Not the Bachmann 60-footers, but approximately 50-foot in length instead. I bought them as a "fix-it-up"  project, as there were quite a few missing bits, and they were painted a ghastly green colour with "Southern" written on them! When they arrived, I had a look a them to determine what would need to be done. 



The cast bogies are a bit crude, but they'll suffice for now; the wheels are fairly fine, and the bogies themselves are compensated! The material used for the glazing has shrunk over time, meaning that there are gaps where there should be windows. A few spots where paint had worn off suggested wooden construction, with metal ends.

After much cursing and very careful persuasion with a knife, I've managed to get one cast end off one carriage. The bodysides appear to be made of thin ply, with a slot cut in from the top along the length, to allow glazing material to be slotted in. The roof is a wooden moulding, and brass  commode handles have been very neatly fitted.



However, I can't get the thing apart! It looks to have been assembled with either Araldite or some form of wood glue, although extremely neatly so it's hard to tell. I believe the carriages (two 50' brake thirds and a 51' saloon composite) were built from the CCW kits of those prototypes.



I'd really like to get inside, to repair the loose interior fittings and replace the glazing strip, but so far nothing I've tried has managed to remove the glue, or even soften it. Acetone has done nothing, and I'm loathe to try anything much stronger for fear of melting the plastic glazing. I tried scoring along the cantrail but haven't made much progress, and the slotted side worries me, as I don't want to split it. Does anyone have any suggestions?

[Andy Hayter]

The slotted side may well mean that if you can unstick the glazing down the whole length it will fall out as a strip from the end of the slot.

[Skinnylinny]

Indeed, but it's getting that strip unstuck! I can't get in to grip it. I'll still need to dismantle the carriage anyway to get to the seats and bits that are rattling around inside.

[Annie]

I remember those wooden kits with those cast ends Linny.  I might even have some odds and ends left in a box somewhere.  The coaches look to have been very nicely made and someone certainly put some effort into making a nice job of them.  It also looks very much like they didn't want them to fall apart, - looks like some kind of resin glue.

The sides aren't ply, - the sides were machined out of some kind of hardwood, - or at least the old coach sides I have are.  I wouldn't have a clue who their maker was though.  I read somewhere that CCW used laminated ply, but I don't know how accurate that is.

[Skinnylinny]

They are extremely nicely made! The beading is very fine (not sure what it's made of, maybe thin strips of adhesive tape, or shellacked card? Having looked them up, you're right - the CCW carriage sides are solid wood, not ply. I'm not sure about how I can remove resin glues either! 

 

I am very much looking forward to fixing them up and getting them painted in SECR crimson... Not so much looking forward to the lining, but at least all the paneling is square with no round corners! 

[Tom Burnham]

Possibly Kings Cross Models? I had one of the 50 foot brake kits some decades ago.

[Dana Ashdown]

On 07/12/2021 at 13:00, Skinnylinny said:

I'm not sure about how I can remove resin glues either! 

Seeing that there is glue residue on the end where you removed the casting, try putting a bit of water on it to see if it softens the glue. If the glue is water-based, you might have a problem with the wood swelling or warping if water is the only thing that will release it. You could also try a small amount alcohol.

 

If you're really "stuck," see if the museum there has a conservator familiar with old glue. They might be able to recommend something.

 

Dana

[Skinnylinny]

Hmmmm the museum approach is an interesting idea, thank you!

I managed to get the roof off one carriage, but not without damage - the glue (even after soaking a metal end with acetone and IPA and in hot water) didn't budge, and was stronger than the wood. I've repaired as much of the damage as I could, but I've decided to put these carriages back to one side and have a look at them when I'm a little less heartbroken!

Instead, I've been trying to decide on how to proceed with the setts on Station Road. There is no way in a million years I would be able to hand-scribe them, my energy levels and attention span simply wouldn't handle it. I don't much like the printed card approach of Metcalfe, Scalescenes etc, because with no relief, weathering them looks very strange! Wills sheets were considered... then decided against. The patterning is nice, but I don't fancy trying to chop them up in order to get gutters with the rows running at right angles to the main rows of setts, and the street wouldn't look right without that.

I'm aware of two manufacturers of embossed, self-adhesive "cobble" roads - an American company called Chooch Enterprises, and the European company Redutex. The Chooch sheets are available as "street" and "details" (additional gutter strips, manhole covers, corners for junctions, drains etc) but the lanes of their roads are very wide, so they would need a fair amount of trimming and potentially quite a bit of waste. The Redutex sheets don't have the "Details" available but have narrower lanes. 

I've managed to get a sheet of the Redutex cobbles, and they don't look bad! I'm going to try to get a sheet of the Chooch ones too, and compare them. Here are the Redutex ones, temporarily in place:

[Annie]

2 hours ago, Skinnylinny said:

Hmmmm the museum approach is an interesting idea, thank you!

I managed to get the roof off one carriage, but not without damage - the glue (even after soaking a metal end with acetone and IPA and in hot water) didn't budge, and was stronger than the wood. I've repaired as much of the damage as I could, but I've decided to put these carriages back to one side and have a look at them when I'm a little less heartbroken!

It would be interesting to see what a museum conservator would say about that glue because it's almost approaching being the kind of thing NASA might be interested in.

I own a lovely old wooden 'O' gauge LSWR coach built from a kit of parts that were available in the post WW1 period.  Fortunately it's in reasonably good condition so doesn't need any surgery doing to it.  It seems to be held together with tiny brass screws and an organic glue made from boiling down animal bones.

Edited December 11, 2021 by Annie
Word salad

[Andy Hayter]

Given what you have tried to use to de-glue, I suspect the builder may have used cascamite urea formaldehyde glue.  Search as I may, I can find no way to de-polymerise the glue.  

 

I think the suggestion to gain entry via the floor may be the only way to go.  

[Skinnylinny]

Best wishes to all for a peaceful and restful Christmas.

[Annie]

Merry Christmas Linny.

[Nick C]

Merry Christmas Linny!

[Tom Burnham]

Compliments of the Season!

[Caley Jim]

Awrrabest, Linny!

 

Jim

[Skinnylinny]

Perhaps a little large for Linton Town, but that doesn't mean it won't appear every so often! This Christmas I was very lucky to receive a Dapol/Rails D class from my partner and their mother, seen here alongside a C class I got for myself after spotting it, reduced, in the local model shop. They'd managed to keep the D class hidden away since they were released back in May/June!



The livery application is very nice, and it runs as smooth as silk! Sadly I don't currently have any suitable SE&CR-liveried carriages, so it was tested in time-honoured tradition (an oval of track on the wooden floor, after lots of careful sweeping!) with two Mainline LMS carriages. Well, they're almost the right colour! Sasha, the cat, was also very interested in the D class, although she couldn't quite decide whether to attack it, try to eat it, or flee from it.



There was one tiny flaw - one of the tender buffers was rattling around loose in the box, but nothing a tiny spot of glue won't fix when I'm back at the workbench. That moulded coal will go, and it'll gain a crew too, but I'm loath to do much more than that - it's just so gorgeous as it is!

Edited December 31, 2021 by Skinnylinny

[Skinnylinny]

Happy new year!

Well, it has certainly been an interesting few weeks, even if not much has happened on the personal modelling front! The only real progress since Christmas has been the building of a Coopercraft GWR Mink (bought in error - I wanted the W1 cattle wagon kit!) and starting on a footbridge for Linton Town.

As lovely as the old Hornby clip-together one is, I've had to give up kitbashing it, as nothing I could do would glue the slippery, greasy, flexible plastic together. Superglue won't touch it, nor will acetone, plastic weld, MEK, or even Araldite (!). I even went out and bought special "flexible plastic" superglue, which comes with a fancy primer, and is intended for those awkward plastics, but no joy.

So! Ratio have come to the rescue with their modular footbridge kit. I'm building mine without the roof, and rather cut-down in length (my main span being 3 panels rather than the 5- or 6-panel version catered for in the kit!). I'm also painting it in a maroon and cream colour scheme, similar in appearance to the colours used on LB&SCR stations. Progress so far (mostly while watching @BlueLightning's Youtube stream last night):



Still plenty to do though, including tidying up the paintwork where it has been smeared by the glue, but so far I'm very pleased.

Edited January 10, 2022 by Skinnylinny

[johnhutnick]

I am in the US, so we may have different products.  For the type of plastic that you described, we would typically use a solvent cement intended for PVC plastic plumbing pipe.  There is a solvent(purple) primer, then the PVC cement.

[Skinnylinny]

Hi John,

Thanks for the thought, but from what I can tell the plastic is polypropylene, and the contact areas for gluing are tiny (many sub 1mm^2!) so glue just wasn't doing it. To be honest, I'm quite happy with how the Ratio one has come out. Still some tidying up, and smoke deflectors to fit (which will be done when it is in its final position, to ensure they align with the track), but I think it looks pretty smart.

[Andy Hayter]

For PP your only real chance is hot melt adhesive.  You will need a very small glue gun and be prepared to carve a lot of waste glue off once it has hardened.

 

PP and PE (Polyethylene) are just about immune to all glues.  They are insoluble in just about any solvent.  They don't have an active chemical group for a glue to latch onto and their "greasy to the touch" feel means that the smooth surface does not provide a key for glues.

[Andy Hayter]

Congratulations seem to be in order regarding the official announcement of your employment with Rapido.  Well done.

[Nick C]

4 minutes ago, Andy Hayter said:

Congratulations seem to be in order regarding the official announcement of your employment with Rapido.  Well done.

Congratulations @Skinnylinny - I've not seen the announcement (only just signed up to their newsletter following the posts about the E1 today...). Hopefully we'll see a few more LSWR prototypes appearing soon

[Skinnylinny]

Thank you! I've found working for Rapido to be very rewarding, and while I may not be at liberty to say what, I can say there are some very interesting projects going on behind the scenes!

For those who haven't had a chance to see the section of the newsletter:

 

[NeilHB]

Well done Linny, what fantastic news! 

[Skinnylinny]

Well, the past nearly-a-month (goodness!) has been quite busy with various things, but some modelling has taken place:

I found an old, unstarted Dapol Rocket kit, so that's been a gentle build over a week or two (still a way to go) - I was then kindly gifted two Hornby L&M replica open carriages to go with it. This isn't an attempt at an accurate L&M train, but more of a memento of the time my partner and I went to the National Railway Museum and had a ride behind their replica Rocket. Still a fair bit to do on the tender, and the loco needs a few paint errors tidying up, and substitution of wire for the moulded chimney and front step supports. 



I've also been playing a fair amount of the multiplayer game "Railroads Online!" with @BlueLightning and some other friends. It's a game set in the US around the turn of the century, with the aim of building a 3' gauge logging railway. You start with a little Porter 0-4-0t loco (named "Betsy" and a single flatbed wagon, and a 3-siding yard. We now have 9 locomotives, over 70 wagons and have connected 7 industries. 

I saw a cheap Bachmann On30 model of the Porter 0-4-0 on eBay, and couldn't resist. With some repainting to represent the polished wood cab and front bufferbeam pilot, Betsy is well on her way to being completed. Strictly, she needs her sand dome replaced with a round-topped one to be more accurate to the in-game version, but that may have to wait for now

On30 is definitely satisfying chunky compared to 4mm standard gauge, and I feel myself being drawn towards the dark side... although it is still pre-grouping in era!





I've also dug out my ruling pens again, and am having another go at the HO brass LB&SCR G class I acquired from a club member a few years back. It was originally a rather horrible beige colour, so I've repainted it and been having a go at the lining. There are a few rough bits on the splasher, but this is the first attempt. Once I'm happier with my ability it'll probably get sanded back to bare metal and redone properly, but I am rather pleased with some bits! I am still figuring out exactly the right consistency of paint needed though. It's getting better with every use of the pen, so I'm hopeful of still more improvement.



Anyway, probably there won't be much update-wise for a little bit, as I will be resting up a lot to save my energy for Model Rail Scotland next weekend. If you're attending, do say hi - I'll be the purple-haired one behind the Edinburgh & Lothians layout (Glendevon) or wandering about in my blue club fleece.

Edited February 20, 2022 by Skinnylinny