peteskitchen Posted September 15, 2018 Share Posted September 15, 2018 Having logged onto the main PC I can post what photos I have, The first is of a Lilleshall wagon probaly before the First War. the 4th photo is taken post 1923 of a Lilleshall wagon and I would love to know what the wording is on the wagon. W 123. Lilleshal company wagon and LMS Loco coal wagon. (2).jpg David Does this help 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted September 15, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 15, 2018 Which demonstrates there must be a better photograph of a wagon with this wording in a reasonably accessible collection... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteskitchen Posted September 15, 2018 Share Posted September 15, 2018 Which demonstrates there must be a better photograph of a wagon with this wording in a reasonably accessible collection... Actually it was many hours using various photographic enhancement applications using that and another picture of one of these wagons that was equally blurred. Unfortunately i screwed up the word spacing when I did the artwork. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium corneliuslundie Posted February 20, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 20, 2019 (edited) I had forgotten this thread. A trawl through the five books on the Bishop's Castle Railway shows the following PO wagons West Cannock Highley Mining Co Amalgamated Anthracite Arscott Boston Black Park And local coal merchants w Stanley Gwilt - who apparently took over most of the others B Bowen & Son - including dumb buffered examples S E & ? Ridley Gough & Beddoes I have asked Keith Turton about the local coal merchants but he has no information. Highley, West Cannock, Black Park and AA are all in he various books but nothing about Arscott - though see above. Jonathan PS I forgot that there is a photo in one of the books of Craven Arms yard with a Crynant Colliery wagon in the background. Edited February 20, 2019 by corneliuslundie 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penlan Posted February 20, 2019 Author Share Posted February 20, 2019 (edited) As seen here, and Pentremawr Colliery Edited February 20, 2019 by Penlan 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium corneliuslundie Posted February 20, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 20, 2019 I had forgotten that one as i was only really noting wagons on the BCR, and the Crynant one range a bell when it was mentioned. Pentremawr was an anthracite colliery, in the Gwendraeth valley, so might well have come up the Central Wales line. A magnificent source of information on the South Wales collieries is the new book - plus 1500 page CD - on south wales collieries by Tony Cooke, he of the map books. http://lightmoor.co.uk/results.php?q=gazetteer&searching=yes&submit.x=43&submit.y=13 A real labour of love. Pentremawr has entries in Hudson v1 and Turton v4. Three of the Turton photos are of Gloucester wagons judging by the HMRS photo references I have against them. And the pit was working in your period, Penlan. Jonathan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium corneliuslundie Posted February 20, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 20, 2019 Crynant had sidings on the east side of the N&B's main line north of Crynant statiion, according to Cooke, and was also an anthracite colliery. It also operated from an early date, though for the last five years until the end of the twenties it was mining a steam coal seam instead. Not sure what route the wagon would have taken, possibly Brecon, Mid Wales railway, transfer at Builth and then the Central Wales but that seems a bit tortuous. Possibly Llanelly and the Central Wales line but also possibly Neath, Pontypool Road and the borders line. Jonathan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted February 20, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 20, 2019 Is there a date for this photo? The two Crynant wagons in Montague's Gloucester book, built 1901 and 1903, wear a grey livery with white lettering shaded black. The one in the photo would appear to be black, with much the same lettering, though the italic word under the lower Crynant is different. What they also have in common is the rather snazzy differently-coloured fourth plank up, red on the Gloucester wagons. If it's red on this black wagon, why can we see it? The Gloucester wagons are 7-plank, this one looks to be 6-plank: 3 below the coloured plank, two above. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium corneliuslundie Posted February 20, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 20, 2019 The Crynant wagon looks black to me. Turton shows three wagons. The two built in 1903 and 1905 are grey, that built earlier in 1892 is black and a six plank. All have the coloured stripe. The photos is dated as 1910 in the book, one of the few to have a date. the first order was actually the first with Gloucester and was for ten wagons plus ten on hire. i think the wagon we see in the photo is probably one of the first batch. thoughts? This would also tie in with the Pentremawr wagon which may well be one of the 1905, 1908 or 1910 batches from Gloucester, illustrated in Turton vol 4. Jonathan 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Northroader Posted February 20, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 20, 2019 The most direct route for mileage rate would probably be N&B to Brecon, MR to Hereford, and up from there? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted February 20, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 20, 2019 19 minutes ago, Northroader said: The most direct route for mileage rate would probably be N&B to Brecon, MR to Hereford, and up from there? We can be confident that the Midland's goods agent in Swansea (Mr J.R. Benner in 1903) will have been making this point most persuasively. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium corneliuslundie Posted February 20, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 20, 2019 Agreed. I thought of that route after I had posted. Presumably then it was probably for a customer in Craven Arms. Or it might have been headed for Bishop's Castle suppose, possible the Three Tuns Brewery which is centuries old. Jonathan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium corneliuslundie Posted February 22, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 22, 2019 One more minor thought. Those Po wagons at Craven Arms may have been headed for somewhere on the GWR Much Wenlock branch. Jonathan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted February 23, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 23, 2019 On 20/02/2019 at 19:21, corneliuslundie said: The Crynant wagon looks black to me. Turton shows three wagons. The two built in 1903 and 1905 are grey, that built earlier in 1892 is black and a six plank. All have the coloured stripe. The photos is dated as 1910 in the book, one of the few to have a date. the first order was actually the first with Gloucester and was for ten wagons plus ten on hire. i think the wagon we see in the photo is probably one of the first batch. thoughts? This would also tie in with the Pentremawr wagon which may well be one of the 1905, 1908 or 1910 batches from Gloucester, illustrated in Turton vol 4. Having just succumbed and taken delivery of Turton Vol. 4, I concur, The 6-plank Crynant wagon looks Gloucesterish though we seem to be seeing the non-brake side so lack the confirmation of the distinctive V-hanger. The original inscription on the bottom left plank, two lines: Neath & Brecon / Railway has been replaced by a long script word under Crynant and a single line on the bottom plank. On the other hand, does the fuzziness of the lettering hint at the indian red shading stated to have been a feature of the Charles Roberts wagons? The sheeted 1-plank wagon to the left of the Crynant wagon is, I think, a LNWR D1. The primitive single wooden brake block and long liver is the tell-tale. Looking at the sheet, I;ll tease Penlan by saying I think I can just see a hint of a diagonal stripe - but it might only be a highlight. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norton961 Posted February 24, 2019 Share Posted February 24, 2019 Coast Line Models have now completed there new transfer sheets which not only include the 3 different Lilleshall Co wagons, but two others which are Hanwood Colliery (located between Shrewsbury and Welshpool adjacent to the junction for Minsterley) and Breideden Hill Granite Quarries located at Criggion. I would assume that these wagons would be seen all around the Welsh borders. The Lilleshall Co wagons which I have commissioned are as follows: Lilleshall Limestone for a 15’ 5 plank. Lilleshall, Shropshire, for both a 15’ 5 plank and for a RCH 1907 end door. Lilleshall Co with additional wording of Glzed bricks, coal, pig iron and steel sections. Both for 15’ 5 plank open and RCH 1907 7 plank end door wagon. The Lilleshall Co wagons would be seen in Wales as they supplied coal merchants as well as coal for the Cambrian Railways locos. They also supplied loco coal to the North Staffs, GWR (presumably to sheds such as Whrexham) and LNWR. They had a fleet of over 300 main line wagons, and wagons were seen in S Wales. David 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norton961 Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 Coast Line models have now delivered the Hanwood Colliery wagon transfers and I had a go today. The wagon underneath is a Cambrian 1907 5 plank wagon The Lilleshall Co transfers are also now avaliable. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norton961 Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 Here are the Lilleshall Co transfers, these are the 5 plank version, the 7 plank version is also avaliable. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penlan Posted March 22, 2019 Author Share Posted March 22, 2019 (edited) Hopefully a few more 'Potrans7' will appear on Ebay, soon.... I had the last one...... Because I'm not into Hornby RTR, the 'Potrans8' transfer says it's for a Hornby 6 plank. What length is that wagon, please. Edited March 22, 2019 by Penlan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quarryscapes Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 On 22/03/2019 at 21:22, Penlan said: Hopefully a few more 'Potrans7' will appear on Ebay, soon.... I had the last one...... Because I'm not into Hornby RTR, the 'Potrans8' transfer says it's for a Hornby 6 plank. What length is that wagon, please. Sorry I'm late to the party ... it's a 15' wagon, as long as you get the new ones with the decent underframe as the transfers were designed for, I wouldn't touch the old 17'6" stuff with a very long and soiled stick. If there is continued interest I can rummage through the stock I held back for my own models and see what I have left, I'm moving to 7mm scale now so the 4mm versions aren't going to be much use to me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quarryscapes Posted April 12, 2020 Share Posted April 12, 2020 I have rummaged through the stock and added then to the website. I've a fair few Lillieshall wagon sets left. https://shop.coastlinemodels.co.uk/product-category/4mm/?filter_railco=private-owner-trader 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim2505 Posted September 22, 2023 Share Posted September 22, 2023 Thought you might like this photo. My great grandfathers coal company of church stretton. 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim2505 Posted September 22, 2023 Share Posted September 22, 2023 On 06/03/2018 at 13:08, davy crockett said: I found one in my collection. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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