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Here are some of the designs in Inkscape, with colours for design purposes only. Not quite happy with the 'cursive' font for the tare details etc.

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/public/style_images/master/attachicon.gifpowagons.png

Not sure about the prototype, Justin, but in sign writing it is the daylight between the letters that is as important as the actual letter size. On that basis, the space between the LLs and O would be better closed up. Appreciate that might be tricky with a software package, but you may be able to tweak the kerning a bit.

 

Tim

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Actually Tim, I suspect that that spacing is about right with the second L centred on the door, it just looks odd without all the ironmongery of a wagon side in place. Sometimes wagon painters just ignored the ironmongery (especially if they had to paint a long name) and just sign-wrote over, it but it does seem as if, where they could, they most commonly placed letters so as to avoid it (and doubtless it was easier to do so).

 

In Inkscape it would be easy to adjust the lettering by splitting a name up into individual letters and adjusting their positioning, so what the software does with a particular font shouldn't be a constraint. Inkscape would also make it easy to adjust the relative width of individual characters if necessary - as I am sure that Justin has done with the letter O, comparing the two examples.

 

I don't know if Justin did it but it is also possible to load a photo or drawing of the real wagon side in the background when laying out lettering in Inkscape, which makes the task much simpler.

Edited by bécasse

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Inkscape will let you adjust the kerning of each letter in each direction without splitting it up into multiple items, or at least it will for me. It's ideally suited for this kind of playing around with text amongst many other things.

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And it is worth bearing in mind that wagons are not necessarily symmetrical. End door wagons require different artwork for each side as the location of strapping affects the layout of the lettering. Inkscape makes it possible, if tedious, to trace everything from photographs as below to ensure that the apparent preference of the signwriters to 'fill' the woodwork between the straps rather than working around the iron work.

post-15858-0-52524100-1548112237_thumb.png

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Actually Tim, I suspect that that spacing is about right with the second L centred on the door, it just looks odd without all the ironmongery of a wagon side in place. Sometimes wagon painters just ignored the ironmongery (especially if they had to paint a long name) and just sign-wrote over, it but it does seem as if, where they could, they most commonly placed letters so as to avoid it (and doubtless it was easier to do so).

 

In Inkscape it would be easy to adjust the lettering by splitting a name up into individual letters and adjusting their positioning, so what the software does with a particular font shouldn't be a constraint. Inkscape would also make it easy to adjust the relative width of individual characters if necessary - as I am sure that Justin has done with the letter O, comparing the two examples.

 

I don't know if Justin did it but it is also possible to load a photo or drawing of the real wagon side in the background when laying out lettering in Inkscape, which makes the task much simpler.

 

 

Yes - this is what the diagram I'm working from shows - the first L does cross onto the ironwork - but the second L and O are centred on the door. The drawing in the screenshot isn't quite right yet, but neither is it equally spaced as Tim suggests. That is assuming the diagram is correct - I'm working from a hand-drawn diagram in an early issue of the GERS Journal. Its much easier to find images of the other form of Mellonie & Goulder wagon livery, where the text runs around an arc, which Bachmann have produced in 4mm.

 

Looking at images on the GER from the Edwardian / WW1 era that I want to focus on, the vast majority of local merchant wagons are side door only, whereas factor wagons seem to be much more likely to be end-door. Makes sense I guess - local merchants in East Anglia would almost certainly have always unloaded onto horse drays, whereas factor wagons might also go to more industrial destinations with facilities for end doors. Funnily enough Mellonie & Goulder seem to be the only prominent local merchant that I can find an early image of using an end-door wagon (with a third variation on the livery - text in a straight line, with with the "Ltd" added).

 

J

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Now I've been looking again at photos of PO wagons on the GER, I noticed this rather interesting wagon of Allen & Boggis of Sudbury (good Sudbury names there!)

 

post-3740-0-46657600-1548240598.png

 

(note on this wagon the text does continue straight across the ironwork without changes to spacing)

 

It's described in the GER Journal (166) as a coke wagon built by Metropolitan Carriage & Wagon in 1893 - internal length 14'6, depth 5'10. 

 

I don't recall seeing any PO coke wagons of this design, with high sides rather than coke rails. You can see its next to another Allen & Boggis coke wagon (lettered for Peterborough, surprisingly) which has much more "normal" looking coke rails. The height matches, but the design, including the strapping, is quite different. 

 

Are there any kits out there that would suit making an (approximate) model of this wagon? I guess I could 3D print this as well, but that seems like a lot of effort for a one off, so if there is anything out there that could pass for it, that would be fine with me! I have a feeling there are some etched kits for MR or LNWR coke wagons, but I'm not familiar enough with the prototype to judge if they'd pass for this?

 

Cheers

Justin

 

 

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I wonder whether this kit is close enough?

https://www.osbornsmodels.com/great-western-replicas-kit-aln008--gwr-diagram-q1-high-sided-provender-wagon-kit-n-gauge-31717-p.asp

Perhaps using a more appropriate chassis instead of the Peco one?

 

 

Its definitely the right kind of shape! 

 

It looks like a curious kit though - I'm struggling to make out from the pictures how much is laser cut overlay, and how much is printed? It looks like a lot of the strapping etc might the latter? :(

 

J

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Now I've been looking again at photos of PO wagons on the GER, I noticed this rather interesting wagon of Allen & Boggis of Sudbury (good Sudbury names there!)

 

attachicon.gifallenboggiscoke.png

 

(note on this wagon the text does continue straight across the ironwork without changes to spacing)

 

It's described in the GER Journal (166) as a coke wagon built by Metropolitan Carriage & Wagon in 1893 - internal length 14'6, depth 5'10. 

 

I don't recall seeing any PO coke wagons of this design, with high sides rather than coke rails. You can see its next to another Allen & Boggis coke wagon (lettered for Peterborough, surprisingly) which has much more "normal" looking coke rails. The height matches, but the design, including the strapping, is quite different. 

 

Are there any kits out there that would suit making an (approximate) model of this wagon? I guess I could 3D print this as well, but that seems like a lot of effort for a one off, so if there is anything out there that could pass for it, that would be fine with me! I have a feeling there are some etched kits for MR or LNWR coke wagons, but I'm not familiar enough with the prototype to judge if they'd pass for this?

 

Cheers

Justin

 

The MR coke hopper has outside frames so doesn''t look like this. Although the concept of being wood sided all the way up is similar.

 

Chris

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Posted (edited)

Back in Shop 3 are the following items:

 

3-691 Chassis for Ixion GWR Manor/Hall/Grange/Outhouse/Semi

 

s3-691.JPG.2f3d4ba1ccd777d50a41cf78c45df2ca.JPG

 

3-368 Gearset 38:1 100DP. This is bored 1/8" on the gearwheel (so use the right muff!) and there is only one worm, bored 1.5mm. If you have a 1mm motor shaft, then the adaptor sleeve is available.

 

s3-368.JPG.568114172fcc394e899e6826ce122c76.JPG

 

We are working on the 30:1 gearset issue. Honest!

Edited by Yorkshire Square

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Hello Tony,

 

What is the diameter of the worm with the 38:1 gear? I have some of these and the worm diameter is c. 3.95mm (cf. 3.58mm for the previous nylatron worms).

 

Nigel Hunt

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1 hour ago, Nig H said:

Hello Tony,

 

What is the diameter of the worm with the 38:1 gear? I have some of these and the worm diameter is c. 3.95mm (cf. 3.58mm for the previous nylatron worms).

 

Nigel Hunt

 

Hi Nigel

 

I'll measure it tonight, but I understand that Alan has made these to have the same centre spacing as our previous offering (which was made for us by, I believe, Ultrascale). In which case it ought to be 3.58mm.

 

Where did you get the ones with 3.95mm worms?

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Hello Tony,

 

I got them from Alan........

 

Regards,

 

Nigel

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Wrong worm sizes suggests three possible error sources:

 

a -  the old Association gear tables for DP gears which were wrong somewhere - the maths just didn't add up !

 

b - worms made for the Metric wormwheels, which had worm diameters tweaked to match the average size deduced from ( a ), to maintain gear centres.   I did the spec for those many years ago. 

 

c - something went wrong making them.

 

 

- Nigel

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50 minutes ago, Nigelcliffe said:

Wrong worm sizes suggests three possible error sources:

 

a -  the old Association gear tables for DP gears which were wrong somewhere - the maths just didn't add up !

 

b - worms made for the Metric wormwheels, which had worm diameters tweaked to match the average size deduced from ( a ), to maintain gear centres.   I did the spec for those many years ago. 

 

c - something went wrong making them.

 

 

- Nigel

Hi Nigel,

 

I asked Alan about the different diameter and I think he said that that  diameter was what the tools he used made, and that the diameter of the worm could be selected (within reason) by the manufacturer. Maybe it just depended on what diameter rod was selected. I'm not sure there is any error, just a difference. I'm not 100% sure, but I think the implication of using the larger diameter worms is that the centre distance will be c. 0.185mm greater. For the chassis I've designed using 38:1 gears, that can be achieved with a bit more packing with shim.

 

Nig H

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I've measured the worm tonight and it actually seems to be a fraction under 3.4mm diameter being not a million miles from 3.58mm. If there are any kits that use the old Association 100DP spacing for this gearset, the new item should be a pretty good fit.

 

Alan confirmed that when he made some for Nigel, he only had a tap for a larger diameter, but has since acquired a tap to suit our required spacing. He sent me an email quoting various BSW, UNC and TPI numbers but the gist of it is as stated.

 

Hope that's cleared things up! :huh:

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Posted (edited)
On 15/01/2019 at 18:49, Yorkshire Square said:

New in shop 3 ready for it reopening in mid-February:

 

http://i63.tinypic.com/2r4jv9y.jpg

 

http://i63.tinypic.com/2rco7df.jpg

 

http://i67.tinypic.com/ih1qab.jpg

 

http://i67.tinypic.com/2mh6jqa.jpg

 

Products 3-266 to 3-269 are 3D printed mounts, designed to cradle mainly round motors of various diameter, but they may be adapted for use with others such as flat can motors that feature curved sides.
 
The mounts also feature pins for use in conjunction with certain Masterclass chassis kits. If not required, these may be carefully removed.

 

Even if the four pins are intended to be used with the Masterclass chassis, I plan on keeping them for a scratch-built tender chassis. Could anyone help with the exact dimensions between the centres of these four pins?

 

Many thanks,

Edited by Valentin

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1 hour ago, Valentin said:

 

Even if the four pins are intended to be used with the Masterclass chassis, I plan on keeping them for a scratch-built tender chassis. Could anyone help with the exact dimensions between the centres of these four pins?

 

Many thanks,

 

If you email Steve in shop 3, I'm sure he'd be happy to measure one for you.

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Posted (edited)

If you have been keeping your eye on the shop webpage, you will see that the Class 08 and Class 11 kits are back. Contrary to the webpage though, there are updated instructions on their way to the shopkeepers.

 

If you are wanting to order a new Class 08 or Class 11, you should order the following parts:

 

Class 08: 3-711a, 3-712a, 3-713a, 3-714a, 3-715a, 3-716, 3-022(3 pairs), plus gears as shown on the chassis arrangement

Class 11: 3-711b, 3-712b 3-713b, 3-714b, 3-715b, 3-716, 3-020(3 pairs), plus gears as shown on the chassis arrangement

 

For the first time, you can build a SR Class 12 as follows without buying two kits, although you are on your own in regards to making the wheels Bulleid-like:

 

Class 12: 3-711b, 3-712a 3-713a, 3-714b, 3-715b, 3-716, 3-022(3 pairs), plus gears as shown on the chassis arrangement

 

If you own an existing unbuilt kit, then the following parts can be used as upgrades (singly or together):

 

Class 08: 3-712a, 3-713a, 3-714a

Class 11: 3-712b 3-713b, 3-714b

 

The new chassis use metric gears, although I expect the imperial gears used in the original kits should also work. It is also recommended you use whichever of 3-266, 3-267 or 3-268 is appropriate to you motor choice. Only coreless motors should be used unless you wish risking melting the body.

 

Instructions Class 8 2018.pdf

 

Class 08 body etch.pdf

 

Class 08 chassis arrangement.pdf

 

Class 08 chassis parts.pdf

 

Class 11 body etch.pdf

 

Class 11 chassis arrangement.pdf

 

 

 

 

Edited by Chris Higgs
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2 hours ago, Chris Higgs said:

If you have been keeping your eye on the shop webpage, you will see that the Class 08 and Class 11 kits are back.

 

 

Apart from the comment about gears, are the parts the same as the previous kits? I have a couple of kits with some missing etches (I didn't read the Ebay listing thoroughly enough!) and would like to complete the kits.

 

Andrew

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5 minutes ago, Crosland said:

 

 

Apart from the comment about gears, are the parts the same as the previous kits? I have a couple of kits with some missing etches (I didn't read the Ebay listing thoroughly enough!) and would like to complete the kits.

 

Andrew

 

The body etch is the original, some parts on it are no longer required but are still included.

 

We have not reproduced the original chassis, which needed additional castings and a PCB footplate, that is replaced by the new etched functional and 3D-printed cosmetic combination. But you can use those new parts together with the old kit.

 

What were you missing?

 

Chris

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Posted (edited)

Also sneaked in without fanfare is 2-164 - MR Bain 10' coach bogie

Edited by Chris Higgs

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3 hours ago, Chris Higgs said:

What were you missing?

 

I have the old style chassis bits. To complete one I just need a body etch. To complete the second one requires the etch and the resin castings.

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4 hours ago, Crosland said:

 

I have the old style chassis bits. To complete one I just need a body etch. To complete the second one requires the etch and the resin castings.

 

So it looks like you are in luck!

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Just a quick query as one relatively new to the Association (this time)...

 

Is there any plan to produce 3’6” dia. wagon wheels? Has this ever been looked at? I’m actually after 8 axles worth of 10-spoke tender wheels for two SR bogie tenders, but it struck me pre-group wagon wheels would do a fairly good impression, at least if these weren’t all 8 split spoke...

 

 

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