2mm Products and Queries

[Valentin]

At 45,000 RPM, aren't they too "speedy"?

[-missy-]

10 minutes ago, Valentin said:

At 45,000 RPM, aren't they too "speedy"?

 

I have never really understood how much that impacts their use on a model engine. I understand the theory behind it and the torque values etc, but is it really that important for our use? How often do we ever run a motor at full speed? 

 

Basically, the larger the motor the more torque and slower running it will be.

 

JUlia.

Edited April 13, 2021 by -missy-

[Klaus ojo]

Julia,

I tried some similar of them as well recently and re-ordered a dozen.

They are not the strongest ones and mine are running a bit roughly and with considerable sound.

However, until now they are doing their job and none of them was a non-runner.

I am using them on my experimental chassis to get a feeling for 2mmFS and gearboxes.

(Oh, that sounds really great for my little tinkering   )

"Mavis" got one...

...I gave her a ride again just right now and must confess that it is more a matter of friction of wheels and electrical pick up than the strength of the motor. Another loco with the motor did pull a track cleaning wagon with a Roco rubber underneith without problems. However, when I measured: mine is 7mm diameter and so a different motor from the same source and looking the same.

 

Sorry for that. 

Klaus

Edited April 13, 2021 by Klaus ojo
additional info, correction

[Klaus ojo]

Not the right buffers on stock?

That´s what happened when I did my class 22 recently and remembered the remains of a Hocan.cz etch.

And so the class 22 even got some sprung buffers (regardless if they are useful or not: they could be done and so I did)

Basis is the idea of chech N gauge supplier J.J. Rufer of Hocan to supply some buffer size pieces with a dimple where you can solder a nail on.

Solder on a brass bead with  0.7 ID /1.2mm OD ( or take one of the cage buffer etchings) and put the nail through 

Possibly needs some refining re-work. 

I just wanted to draw your attention to the ideas of specificly the chech kit suppliers (not so much to my improvable soldering skills).

 

cheers

Klaus

Edited April 13, 2021 by Klaus ojo
look: hocan.cz, dk-model.cz

[nick_bastable]

6 minutes ago, Klaus ojo said:

Not the right buffers on stock?

That´s what happened when I did my class 22 recently and remembered the remains of a Hocan.cz etch.

And so the class 22 even got some sprung buffers (regardless if they are useful or not: they could be done and so I did)

Basis is the idea of chech N gauge supplier J.J. Rufer of Hocan to supply some buffer size pieces with a dimple where you can solder a nail on.

Solder on a brass bead with  0.7 ID /1.2mm OD ( or take one of the cage buffer etchings) and put the nail through 

Possibly needs some refining re-work. I´m not so perfect.

 

cheers

Klaus

Klaus I would suggest your work is better shown in this thread https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/65499-whats-on-your-2mm-work-bench/

 

please do keep posting

 

Nick B

[Izzy]

11 hours ago, -missy- said:

 

I have never really understood how much that impacts their use on a model engine. I understand the theory behind it and the torque values etc, but is it really that important for our use? How often do we ever run a motor at full speed? 

JUlia.

I think that’s the nub of the problem. I have always understood that motors produce their power output in relation to their rpm range, ROT that it peaks at about 60/70 % and then flatlines or falls a bit due to other factors. I know that today it’s offset by such as BEMF feedback etc but running very high rpm motors at low values with low gearing means they can’t deliver much grunt and can overheat when made to do so. 

Edited April 13, 2021 by Izzy

[Nig H]

Hello,

 

You will know that the Association wheel-turning service has ceased, and we are exploring options to replace it. One option is to make available to members a form tool so that members could turn wheels to finescale standards themselves. The Scalefour Society have done something similar for their members, and I can approach the firm that made their tools for a quote for a tool for us. The Scalefour Soc. tools worked out at £40 per tool based on quite a large order, and I expect we would order less, thus resulting in a higher price. What that price might be I have no idea, but say £50 - £60. On that basis, would anyone be interested in buying a tool? Please let me know via my email account nigel6235@outlook.com. I will request a quote in the next few days.

 

Nigel Hunt

 

Product Development Officer

[Nig H]

Hello,

 

Recently a number of members have mentioned being interested in Mike Raithby 4F kits, mainly for the tenders. I have discussed this pent-up demand with Tony Simms, and he told me the 4F (and the 8F) were poor sellers and he didn't plan to stock any more of the etches. He did agree to get more if there were sufficient orders, paid in advance. So, if you want any of either kit, can you contact me at nigel6235@outlook.com with your requirements, and I'll see if there are sufficient numbers for another order.

 

Nigel Hunt

 

Prod. Dev Officer

[SandHutton]

On 25/02/2022 at 11:04, Nig H said:

Hello,

 

You will know that the Association wheel-turning service has ceased, and we are exploring options to replace it. One option is to make available to members a form tool so that members could turn wheels to finescale standards themselves. The Scalefour Society have done something similar for their members, and I can approach the firm that made their tools for a quote for a tool for us. The Scalefour Soc. tools worked out at £40 per tool based on quite a large order, and I expect we would order less, thus resulting in a higher price. What that price might be I have no idea, but say £50 - £60. On that basis, would anyone be interested in buying a tool? Please let me know via my email account nigel6235@outlook.com. I will request a quote in the next few days.

 

Nigel Hunt

 

Product Development Officer

Hi Nigel,

 

Just my own 2cents.  I wouldn't have thought there would be much call for a form tool as much of the work Gordon did on my own stock converting n to 2mm fs was reducing the flange width of the wheel and increasing the back to back.  Where possible he also reduced the wheel width from the front for diesel disk wheels.   Its not really necessary to alter the profile of the running tread to flange area as in most cases they are fine enough as they are.  Using a form tool is also more complex than simple facing work as the wheel has to be held more securely - normally on a mandrel and you would cut away the nickle silver coating.   

 

Thinking about the more recent farish steam releases which have reverted back to the wiper pickup - could these be best tackled with 3d printed wheel centres on association rims as Julia Adams and others have done - you could provide it as a kit.  Julias experiments I think used ESun hard tough resin which required heat curing after normal printing / curing.  It results in a much tougher wheel centre.

1. Glue 2FS rims to 3d printed centre
2. Glue Crankpins to wheels
3. Remove old wheels from axles
4. Fix left wheel to axle and allow to cure (loctite 603?)
5. Use a quartering jig to set the quartering and back to back with the right wheel installed.

With all of the above its important obviously that you can attain the co-centricity and trueness of the wheel running without additional processing as has been achieved with the sintered metal wheels we now use 

 

Guy

[Nig H]

1 hour ago, SandHutton said:

Hi Nigel,

 

Just my own 2cents.  I wouldn't have thought there would be much call for a form tool as much of the work Gordon did on my own stock converting n to 2mm fs was reducing the flange width of the wheel and increasing the back to back.  Where possible he also reduced the wheel width from the front for diesel disk wheels.   Its not really necessary to alter the profile of the running tread to flange area as in most cases they are fine enough as they are.  Using a form tool is also more complex than simple facing work as the wheel has to be held more securely - normally on a mandrel and you would cut away the nickle silver coating.   

 

Thinking about the more recent farish steam releases which have reverted back to the wiper pickup - could these be best tackled with 3d printed wheel centres on association rims as Julia Adams and others have done - you could provide it as a kit.  Julias experiments I think used ESun hard tough resin which required heat curing after normal printing / curing.  It results in a much tougher wheel centre.

1. Glue 2FS rims to 3d printed centre
2. Glue Crankpins to wheels
3. Remove old wheels from axles
4. Fix left wheel to axle and allow to cure (loctite 603?)
5. Use a quartering jig to set the quartering and back to back with the right wheel installed.

With all of the above its important obviously that you can attain the co-centricity and trueness of the wheel running without additional processing as has been achieved with the sintered metal wheels we now use 

 

Guy

Hello Guy,

 

Thanks for your comments. You may well be right about the level of demand for a form tool. Once we have a tool we can assess, we can decide if it is useful to members or not, and offer it to members with information about what it can or can't achieve. It might turn out that some of those who have expressed an initial interest in the tool decide its not for them after all. 

 

Regards,

 

Nigel hunt

 

Product Development Officer

 

 

[2mm Andy]

6 hours ago, SandHutton said:

Hi Nigel,

 

Just my own 2cents.  I wouldn't have thought there would be much call for a form tool as much of the work Gordon did on my own stock converting n to 2mm fs was reducing the flange width of the wheel and increasing the back to back.  Where possible he also reduced the wheel width from the front for diesel disk wheels.   Its not really necessary to alter the profile of the running tread to flange area as in most cases they are fine enough as they are.  Using a form tool is also more complex than simple facing work as the wheel has to be held more securely - normally on a mandrel and you would cut away the nickle silver coating.   

 

Thinking about the more recent farish steam releases which have reverted back to the wiper pickup - could these be best tackled with 3d printed wheel centres on association rims as Julia Adams and others have done - you could provide it as a kit.  Julias experiments I think used ESun hard tough resin which required heat curing after normal printing / curing.  It results in a much tougher wheel centre.

1. Glue 2FS rims to 3d printed centre
2. Glue Crankpins to wheels
3. Remove old wheels from axles
4. Fix left wheel to axle and allow to cure (loctite 603?)
5. Use a quartering jig to set the quartering and back to back with the right wheel installed.

With all of the above its important obviously that you can attain the co-centricity and trueness of the wheel running without additional processing as has been achieved with the sintered metal wheels we now use 

 

Guy

 

Others will be no doubt be able to confirm but I think that the sintered metal wheels do require some machining/processing work prior to assembly.

 

I understand that Julia's 3d printed wheels using the ESun resin also needed some machining prior to the rims being fitted, and what can be achieved for single locomotives might not necessarily work for production quantities - getting a set of 6 wheels printed and machined for one loco (and another 6 for the tender) is a bit different to producing a batch of say 120 driving wheels for 20 locos.

 

Andy

[MrSimon]

Hi all,

 

Does the chassis kit 3-652 (replacement for Farish LMS Black 5) use the 11.75mm black 5 driving wheels or are they just for the full loco kit?   It’s not mentioned on the replacement chassis kit instructions (but I assume it goes together like the others)

 

Many thanks in advance

Simon

 

[Chris Higgs]

On 17/05/2022 at 22:24, MrSimon said:

Hi all,

 

Does the chassis kit 3-652 (replacement for Farish LMS Black 5) use the 11.75mm black 5 driving wheels or are they just for the full loco kit?   It’s not mentioned on the replacement chassis kit instructions (but I assume it goes together like the others)

 

Many thanks in advance

Simon

 

 

You can use the 11.75 or 12mm. The 11.75mm have the correct number of spokes and are a whole lot cheaper.

 

Chris

[2mm Andy]

10 hours ago, Chris Higgs said:

 

You can use the 11.75 or 12mm. The 11.75mm have the correct number of spokes and are a whole lot cheaper.

 

Chris

 

The 11.75mm wheels also have the bevel on the inside of the rim that is a feature of Stanier locos.

 

Andy

[Crosland]

I see the 11.75mm wheels are while stock lasts. Are the Black 5 kits running low, soon to be WSL too? Otherwise, it would be shame not to have the better wheels available for the kits.

[Nigelcliffe]

17 hours ago, Crosland said:

I see the 11.75mm wheels are while stock lasts. Are the Black 5 kits running low, soon to be WSL too? Otherwise, it would be shame not to have the better wheels available for the kits.

 

Old wheel types are WSL because there is nobody to make those wheels with that process anymore.     
The design can be 3D printed, but that would be a new product at a new price.    But, the number of people who produce things for the Association is small, and at the same time as doing loco wheels, they're also doing track parts, wagon wheels, etches, plastic mould tools.....    And there's only so many spare hours in a day. 

 

 

- Nigel

Edited May 21, 2022 by Nigelcliffe

[Yorkshire Square]

It's worth pointing out that WSL does not necessarily mean stocks are low, merely that for whatever reason they will not continue in that format when sold out.

 

Off the top of my head, I recall that there are so many Mk4 11.75mm wheels left in stock that the Mk5 version is unlikely to appear in my lifetime...

Edited May 24, 2022 by Yorkshire Square

[Velocemitch]

Not sure if this is the right place to ask.... but I will

im wondering which buffers to use on a pair of fence houses 21 Tonne hoppers I’m building.

looking at photos I think they usually had the BR Standard F4 1’6” Spindle buffer, but I can’t see that one in the shop, which would be the closest?

 

 

[DavidLong]

On 25/05/2022 at 20:33, Velocemitch said:

Not sure if this is the right place to ask.... but I will

im wondering which buffers to use on a pair of fence houses 21 Tonne hoppers I’m building.

looking at photos I think they usually had the BR Standard F4 1’6” Spindle buffer, but I can’t see that one in the shop, which would be the closest?

 

 

 

The standard buffer for 21T hoppers (HTO/HTV) was the 1' 6" four-rib spindle buffer with 1' 1" head. In the Association list it is 2-070. These seem to have been fitted even to the vacuum braked versions instead of the more usual 1' 8½" for fitted vehicles. If you look on Paul Bartlett's wagon photos you will find some other variations but the 18" spindle is still in the majority.

 

David

[RichardW1]

Does anyone have the correct instruction sheet for the 2mm Scale Association Black 5 replacement chassis etch that they could share with me? 

[DavidLong]

On 19/06/2022 at 12:26, RichardW1 said:

Does anyone have the correct instruction sheet for the 2mm Scale Association Black 5 replacement chassis etch that they could share with me? 

Richard,

 

Is it the Higgs conversion that you are looking for?

Black 5 chassis parts.pdf

Black 5 chassis arrangement.pdf

LMS 4000 gallon tender chassis parts.pdf

 

David

[Chris Higgs]

On 19/06/2022 at 12:26, RichardW1 said:

Does anyone have the correct instruction sheet for the 2mm Scale Association Black 5 replacement chassis etch that they could share with me? 

 

I never wrote a full set of instructions. But the chassis is based very closely on that in Bob Jones' Black 5 kit, and also my 8F kit. So what you find on this link should be of some use.

 

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B7V9MIj3SLTgZUJTQUhuVnIxSDQ?resourcekey=0-fGj74oHg2hohWOfCppVk5g&usp=sharing

 

Chris

[RichardW1]

Hi both 

thanks, exactly what I was looking for I think.  I assume that the main frame strengthener fits inside the main frame proper?

[Chris Higgs]

On 24/06/2022 at 11:39, RichardW1 said:

Hi both 

thanks, exactly what I was looking for I think.  I assume that the main frame strengthener fits inside the main frame proper?

 

Yes indeed. Over the bosses of the bearings. Which obviously you fit first before the strengthener. I say obviously because I have had people ask exactly how to align the frame strengthener so the bearings would fit into it.

 

Chris

[Chris Higgs]

Possibly not the thread to post this in, but then again as they were Association products at some point...

 

Given that many of the items I have produced over the years are no longer available in Shop 2/4, and I have had a few requests for, I am thinking of doing a new limited run of some of these items. The ones I have in mind are

 

Coach kits: - basically these are ones I have resin roofs for

BR CCT

BR GUV

BR MK1 BG

 

Wagon Kits:

GWR Toads

GWR Shunters Truck

GWR/BR Lowmac

 

Wagon/NPCS underframes:

Dapol Grain hopper (two types)

Dapol Fruit D

Chivers LNER Long CCT

Chivers BR Tube wagon

Chivers Long LMS Wagons (two types)

Chivers GWR Open C

 

plus any I might have forgotten.

 

Please get in contact direct to me (not by replying to this thread) if you have are interested. There will be a minimum order quantity as I am not in a position to field large numbers of orders for one underframe!

 

In case you are wondering, the LMS and LNER fitted underfames (2-371 to 2-373) and BR Plate wagon underframes (2-376 to 2-378) are not on the list as I am working with the Sales Officier to get these back as permanent shop items.

 

Chris