Gibbo675 Posted July 23, 2019 Share Posted July 23, 2019 Hi TS, As far as a demo board goes how about using a wall paper pasting table with perhaps a reinforcement of thin ply as a basis for an easily stored and carried layout that when closed it protects the track. One would do for an end to end style but should you not want an end to end layout then lay two next to each other to give the required area for suitable radius curves. Gibbo. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboSnail Posted July 27, 2019 Author Share Posted July 27, 2019 I've just got home for the weekend, so it's time for a few shots of the finished locos I've brought back from the workbench with me. Although first, here's one that was waiting for me in the post - finally got hold of one in SECR livery! Here it is again with an older relative: And then something a bit smaller: Given that this loco body was very poorly printed, it almost got binned. I'm glad I didn't chuck it out though, it's not the greatest looking engine but I'm very happy with it considering where it started. Even the weathering experiments went well. It's still missing several handrails, coupling hooks, lamp irons etc., but I'm not inclined to add any more - it's got to the stage where you'd have to look quite hard or up close to see the missing bits. 9 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedGemAlchemist Posted July 27, 2019 Share Posted July 27, 2019 47 minutes ago, TurboSnail said: And then something a bit smaller: Given that this loco body was very poorly printed, it almost got binned. I'm glad I didn't chuck it out though, it's not the greatest looking engine but I'm very happy with it considering where it started. Even the weathering experiments went well. It's still missing several handrails, coupling hooks, lamp irons etc., but I'm not inclined to add any more - it's got to the stage where you'd have to look quite hard or up close to see the missing bits. Saved from scrap indeed! I love it. Quite a cute little loco I think. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboSnail Posted July 28, 2019 Author Share Posted July 28, 2019 As promised a while back, some layout photos. I started it 6 years ago before I went to uni, but it's never been finished despite the amount of time I've had to work on it. I think that's because my knowledge of prototypical practices got a lot better over that time and I lost motivation due to all the little niggles with it. Not that that is an issue, it was a useful learning tool and I'll go on to make something better with the lessons I've learned. Having said all that, I'm very happy with a few things, particularly the control system, the use of live frog points, my first few attempts at scratchbuilding, the hands-free uncoupling and more. So it's not all bad! 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboSnail Posted July 30, 2019 Author Share Posted July 30, 2019 And having been so negative about the previous layout, here's where I'm going with the new one! (Maybe) I got thinking about what I need from a layout, and came up with the following: Small. Portable, and easy to pack up quickly. Photogenic. It's likely to become a photo location for all my 3D printed stuff, so needs to be scenically good (which also means small, so I don't lose motivation to finish it). Interesting to operate. Preferably with different puzzles to solve. Chameleon. It may have to impersonate any era from the late 1800s to the end of steam without too many changes, depending what stock I want to run. Robust. It will have to live packed up in a case, probably with other stuff stored on top, and will likely go through a few house moves over the next few years. I'm thinking something along the lines of a hybrid between the Inglenook and Timesaver shunting puzzles, that splits in half and clips together, maybe using flight case edges and clips to hold it all together. I've had a play around in AnyRail and come up with this (in 1200x300mm, which should packup into a box of about 700x300mm): The idea being that a train 'arrives' in the fiddle yard, then is redistributed by the shunter. The top two sidings can be the standard Inglenook puzzle, but a couple of special wagons (e.g. brake van, explosives van, coal wagon) have to be shunted into the bottom siding or the run-round section. The wagons can then be 'loaded', then the train reassembled with the brake van at the back to be sent back out to 'depart' into the fiddle yard. All this leaves me with a few thoughts to ponder (any input would be much appreciated here!). What is the theme? My locos are supposedly for a colliery company, but are not actually named or branded as such in their livery How to control it? My preference is DC, then I can mess about with wiring and possibly Arduinos. But tricky with all those opposing points. Not sure DCC chips will fit in many of my locos... How to hide the Fiddle Yard/Assembly Area? Are there any other operations I can do with it? Or with small changes to the trackplan, can more possibilities be opened up? Let me know what you think! Am I just being overambitious as usual? 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold BlueLightning Posted July 30, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 30, 2019 Looks like a good plan Tom! Plenty of play potential there if you ask me! Hiding the fiddle yard on the other hand, that looks a bit tricky, but I'm sure others will have plenty of ideas! I fully intend to DCC both the locos I got from you, and think I have worked out how I'm doing it. I can even link you to an arduino sketch for a DCC controller if you want to have a play with that control method! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboSnail Posted July 31, 2019 Author Share Posted July 31, 2019 17 hours ago, BlueLightning said: Looks like a good plan Tom! Plenty of play potential there if you ask me! Hiding the fiddle yard on the other hand, that looks a bit tricky, but I'm sure others will have plenty of ideas! I fully intend to DCC both the locos I got from you, and think I have worked out how I'm doing it. I can even link you to an arduino sketch for a DCC controller if you want to have a play with that control method! I definitely intend to keep the locos as good old-fashioned analogue control, but maybe have some Arduino based control (e.g. points, uncoupling, inertia, signalling etc.). Mostly as I like building electronic stuff myself. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold BlueLightning Posted July 31, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 31, 2019 38 minutes ago, TurboSnail said: Mostly as I like building electronic stuff myself. Something I thoroughly understand! The plans for Hailsham have a lot of custom electronics planned, just because I love it so much! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboSnail Posted July 31, 2019 Author Share Posted July 31, 2019 More thoughts have gone into the layout planning, despite having many more pressing things to do... I like the idea of a 'might-have-been' based on Guilford Colliery (not Guildford!) near Coldred, Kent. This was in reality a failed enterprise, but did get as far as having a connection to the EKLR. This does involve assuming the colliery grew bigger than it did in reality, to justify more than just a single track siding. I've crudely superimposed my track plan onto the map (pinched borrowed from SubBrit) below. The layout would be the red-bordered area, probably moved a little further south to give it some distance from the road. Doing some more work on the trackplan results in this: We have an engine house, coal processing building and workshop providing the backscene, with the fiddle yard screened by moving the row of trees from the map slightly further south. The explosives hut is added for operational reasons - in each train will be an explosives wagon, which should always be shunted down to be unloaded at the hut. I thought it would be prudent to put the hut away from everything else... There may be some kind of loading mechanism implemented at the coal loading area, depending how creative I feel. Finally, the gravel road/track area at the front can be used to date the layout, with figures or road vehicles of choice. There's probably more track than there should be, but I'd rather have the operational interest than absolute accuracy. So does this all seem plausible? 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbo675 Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 (edited) 24 minutes ago, TurboSnail said: More thoughts have gone into the layout planning, despite having many more pressing things to do... I like the idea of a 'might-have-been' based on Guilford Colliery (not Guildford!) near Coldred, Kent. This was in reality a failed enterprise, but did get as far as having a connection to the EKLR. This does involve assuming the colliery grew bigger than it did in reality, to justify more than just a single track siding. I've crudely superimposed my track plan onto the map (pinched borrowed from SubBrit) below. The layout would be the red-bordered area, probably moved a little further south to give it some distance from the road. Doing some more work on the trackplan results in this: We have an engine house, coal processing building and workshop providing the backscene, with the fiddle yard screened by moving the row of trees from the map slightly further south. The explosives hut is added for operational reasons - in each train will be an explosives wagon, which should always be shunted down to be unloaded at the hut. I thought it would be prudent to put the hut away from everything else... There may be some kind of loading mechanism implemented at the coal loading area, depending how creative I feel. Finally, the gravel road/track area at the front can be used to date the layout, with figures or road vehicles of choice. There's probably more track than there should be, but I'd rather have the operational interest than absolute accuracy. So does this all seem plausible? Hi TS, The loop doesn't look right, the layout benefits form it but it needs to be moved. My suggestion is that the loop and the coal loading sidings should be accessed from a three way point under the word "assembly" on your diagram and that the siding to the explosives hut should spur off from the right hand end of the loop by using two points above the word "gravel" on your diagram. This way the locomotive that brings in empties may run round without need for shunt release and also more wagons may be sided up in the loading roads when marshalling a loaded train ready for departure from one or other side of the loop. A further alteration could be that the workshops are accessed from a spur from the explosives hut siding as a switch back arrangement, that way a runaway train entering the loop would not crash through the workshop door and instead demolish the buffer stops at the end of the loop. Here is a link to the National Library of Scotland's side by side map comparison. I have linked below a small mine in Wigan which shews one variation of layout of sidings. Have a look in various mining areas to see what else is to be seen. https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/side-by-side/#zoom=17&lat=53.5360&lon=-2.5881&layers=168&right=BingHyb Interesting to see how many housing estates are built over old mine workings ! Gibbo. Edited July 31, 2019 by Gibbo675 Adding Link 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edwardian Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 23 minutes ago, TurboSnail said: More thoughts have gone into the layout planning, despite having many more pressing things to do... I like the idea of a 'might-have-been' based on Guilford Colliery (not Guildford!) near Coldred, Kent. This was in reality a failed enterprise, but did get as far as having a connection to the EKLR. This does involve assuming the colliery grew bigger than it did in reality, to justify more than just a single track siding. I've crudely superimposed my track plan onto the map (pinched borrowed from SubBrit) below. The layout would be the red-bordered area, probably moved a little further south to give it some distance from the road. Doing some more work on the trackplan results in this: We have an engine house, coal processing building and workshop providing the backscene, with the fiddle yard screened by moving the row of trees from the map slightly further south. The explosives hut is added for operational reasons - in each train will be an explosives wagon, which should always be shunted down to be unloaded at the hut. I thought it would be prudent to put the hut away from everything else... There may be some kind of loading mechanism implemented at the coal loading area, depending how creative I feel. Finally, the gravel road/track area at the front can be used to date the layout, with figures or road vehicles of choice. There's probably more track than there should be, but I'd rather have the operational interest than absolute accuracy. So does this all seem plausible? What a great idea. I have no idea what a minor Kent mine or its track plan might look like, but I like the idea very much. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboSnail Posted July 31, 2019 Author Share Posted July 31, 2019 1 hour ago, Gibbo675 said: Hi TS, The loop doesn't look right, the layout benefits form it but it needs to be moved. My suggestion is that the loop and the coal loading sidings should be accessed from a three way point under the word "assembly" on your diagram and that the siding to the explosives hut should spur off from the right hand end of the loop by using two points above the word "gravel" on your diagram. This way the locomotive that brings in empties may run round without need for shunt release and also more wagons may be sided up in the loading roads when marshalling a loaded train ready for departure from one or other side of the loop. A further alteration could be that the workshops are accessed from a spur from the explosives hut siding as a switch back arrangement, that way a runaway train entering the loop would not crash through the workshop door and instead demolish the buffer stops at the end of the loop. Here is a link to the National Library of Scotland's side by side map comparison. I have linked below a small mine in Wigan which shews one variation of layout of sidings. Have a look in various mining areas to see what else is to be seen. https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/side-by-side/#zoom=17&lat=53.5360&lon=-2.5881&layers=168&right=BingHyb Interesting to see how many housing estates are built over old mine workings ! Gibbo. Thanks for that input, I'd be inclined to agree about the loop looking a bit wrong. However, I'm not sure I can move the point back into the fiddle yard as I need space there for the complete train. I'll have a think about it. I'll have a play around in the software and try to tidy it up a bit using three or four-way points, which should make it look less cluttered, even if it isn't in reality. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Rixon Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 Loops are typically quite long when locomotive are shunting trains (c.f. mini-loops for horses shunting short cuts of wagons). It would make sense to me if the layout showed just the end of the run-road loop with the body in the fiddle yard; i.e. two, parallel tracks emerging into the modelled area. 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboSnail Posted July 31, 2019 Author Share Posted July 31, 2019 I want to be able to get a loco plus a wagon into the headshunt at either end of the loop for operational purposes, which given the space I've got (1200mm) means the loop has to be essentially central. If I had more space, I'd take your good advice - but I don't want to extend the layout at all, even 1200mm may be too long. This is very much an exercise in being a little unrealistic for the sake of operational interest. So I've taken some of Gibbo's suggestions (3-way points from the linked Wigan colliery - incidentally, the side-by-side map tool will be very useful for another couple of projects I have in mind) and Guy's suggestion (try and make the loop as long as possible) and come up with this. Each square on the grid is 100x100mm, so it will be tight fitting a loco plus wagon into each of the headshunts, and fitting a 5-wagon train in the fiddle yard, but most of the stock for it will be small industrial, so we may get away with it. I think the trackwork looks a lot 'cleaner' than the previous version. Alternative version with original pointwork at the top edge. Not sure which version I prefer! 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboSnail Posted July 31, 2019 Author Share Posted July 31, 2019 Please do continue the layout conversation over on the newly-created Guilford Colliery thread, linked here. Helps save a bit of confusion with everything going in one place, and helps me keep better track of advice and suggestions too. Thanks! 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboSnail Posted August 1, 2019 Author Share Posted August 1, 2019 (edited) Here's a question - are there any good online sources of loco data, specifications and dimensions? This is particularly useful for scratchbuilding or making CAD models (with info like wheel diameters, cylinder sizes, length over buffers etc.), yet is often hard to find. The SEMG (linked) have some great pages for the SECR, LSBC, LSWR, SR and BR enthusiast, but what about other lines? My particular interest at the moment is in industrial locos, so I'm hoping there's some kind of equivalent. Unfortunately I don't have the resources to stock a library or make trips up to the NRM archives. Edited August 1, 2019 by TurboSnail It's too early for accurate spelling Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboSnail Posted August 4, 2019 Author Share Posted August 4, 2019 Got a new loco! It's another printed one, the CAD of which was shown a few pages ago on this thread. Still a few things to tweak before it's made available to all. Based on the Manchester Ship Canal Hudswells, although with outside cylinders as there wasn't a cheap, readily available chassis suitable for the inside cylinder models. Please excuse poor painting skills... 9 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedGemAlchemist Posted August 4, 2019 Share Posted August 4, 2019 2 minutes ago, TurboSnail said: Got a new loco! It's another printed one, the CAD of which was shown a few pages ago on this thread. Still a few things to tweak before it's made available to all. Based on the Manchester Ship Canal Hudswells, although with outside cylinders as there wasn't a cheap, readily available chassis suitable for the inside cylinder models. Please excuse poor painting skills... What chassis did you use? I want one now as I don't have a Hudswell amongst my little fleet. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboSnail Posted August 4, 2019 Author Share Posted August 4, 2019 38 minutes ago, RedGemAlchemist said: What chassis did you use? I want one now as I don't have a Hudswell amongst my little fleet. It's the Electrotren 0-6-0T chassis that I use under several loco bodies - I have one chassis and about 4 bodies for it. Not sure if anyone still sells it new, but they come up secondhand and on eBay pretty regularly. 1 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruston Posted August 4, 2019 Share Posted August 4, 2019 (edited) Have you seen this? An 0-6-0 version of the Neilson 2-2-2 tank that you did as a 3D-print. Edited August 4, 2019 by Ruston 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboSnail Posted August 4, 2019 Author Share Posted August 4, 2019 58 minutes ago, Ruston said: Have you seen this? An 0-6-0 version of the Neilson 2-2-2 tank that you did as a 3D-print. A bit like this, you mean? Admittedly with outside cylinders, although I have thought about converting it to a Terrier chassis. 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboSnail Posted August 8, 2019 Author Share Posted August 8, 2019 (edited) If anyone was wondering what I've been up to lately, I've been making friends! Specifically with Hardy's Hobbies, who will be offering a revised version of my freelance Hudswell Clarke. More info here: https://hardyshobbies.co.uk/hudswell-clarke-0-6-0-industrial-tank/ Provided this goes well, expect more to come! Edited August 8, 2019 by TurboSnail 10 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold BlueLightning Posted August 8, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 8, 2019 Interest registered on their site, guess I had best get an Electrotren 0-6-0 chassis!! 1 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboSnail Posted August 9, 2019 Author Share Posted August 9, 2019 Does anyone know of any 0-6-0 inside cylinder locos that have 4ft diameter wheels and a 6ft + 6ft wheelbase? Or are a close(ish) match? I've got a couple of Terrier chassis lying around that I'd like to do something interesting with, but am struggling to find prototypes for it. Any suggestions anyone? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold BlueLightning Posted August 9, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 9, 2019 Can't think of anything personally, but those chassis are quite east to turn into a 2-4-0 (or 0-4-2 if you turn it around) that might help extend your range of possibilities Gary 2 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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