Bury Interchange in 4mm

[JonKing]

Evening All,

 

I have had the ambition to model the Bury to Manchester Victoria line and its class 504s for some time. I don't know why as I was very young when the line closed for conversion to the Manchester metrolink and I never saw it in operation, I think it must be a combination of the unique character of the line and the attractive GMPTE orange and tan livery!.

 

My intention is to model Bury Interchange in the last month of heavy rail operation (July 1991 to August 1991) when the line was only in operation between Bury and Crumpsall, the section between Crumpsall and Manchester having already closed for conversion to Manchester Metrolink. The advantage of modelling Bury Interchange is that it is a fairly compact site which will fit nicely along the 10ft wall I have available in my home office (with a bit of prototype compression!), fiddle yard lengths will be restricted to a 2 car 504 which seemed to be the standard during the last month of operation. Operationally the unusual (for modern standards) pointwork and diamond crossover at the station throat will give some interest, I also intend to build a fully interlocked replica IFS panel based on the one at Hagside Crossing (which controlled Bury Interchange) to control signals and points which will make operation a bit more interesting. Scale wise I intend to go for P4 as I only intend to build 2 class 504s, no idea where I will get the wheels from yet or track parts suitable for flat bottomed rail!.

 

Screen grab from google maps showing the layout area below, worth noting that the ELR over bridge was built after 1991 so wont be included on my layout:

 

 

Before I started building the layout I wanted to make sure I could knock together a passable representation of a class 504 (the DC kits version no longer being available). Bury without a class 504 would be like a GWR branch line without any GWR stock.

 

Luckily I was able to purchase 2 sets of DC kits 504 cab ends, roof domes and cab sides from ebay recently, which, whilst being in used condition and fairly rough were good enough to enable me to make a start. Having cleaned up the DC kits parts I got a Bachmann EPB model and stripped down all the glazing, separated the bodies from the chassis and removed the roof etc. Then I carefully cut the cab ends off using the leading edge of the cab door as a guide, replacement cab sides were then squared up and glued in place along with cab fronts and roof domes. Picture below pre-priming shows the new bits fitted on the DMBS next to the DTS already in primer:-

 

 

As would be expected getting a good fit on the parts was very challenging with a lot of filler used to fill gaps and extensive sanding required (the filling and sanding process being undertaken numerous times in some areas!). The roofs were cut to allow the roof domes to be installed and blended in with filler, ribs and electrical conduit were also removed from the Bachmann roofs. Both bodies are now primed and subject to more sanding starting to look the part:-

 

 

Still a fair bit of work to do on the bodies, particularly the gutter line between the roof dome and Bachmann roof however I am happy with how things are progressing. I haven't even looked at the chassis yet which will need some pretty major surgery just to enable the bodies to fit with the new cab ends. The units will be finished in orange and tan GMPTE livery with significant grafitti tags and a generally worn appearance to suit the last month in operation feel. I am not looking forward to the painting as I don't like spraying and getting the masking to sit as a straight line for the joint between the tan and orange will be a nightmare (the line is just above the door bangers which will distort the masking).

 

I know the prototype and period wont be to everyone's interest however hopefully someone has found this interesting.

 

 

[Gibbo675]

Evening All,

 

I have had the ambition to model the Bury to Manchester Victoria line and its class 504s for some time. I don't know why as I was very young when the line closed for conversion to the Manchester metrolink and I never saw it in operation, I think it must be a combination of the unique character of the line and the attractive GMPTE orange and tan livery!.

 

My intention is to model Bury Interchange in the last month of heavy rail operation (July 1991 to August 1991) when the line was only in operation between Bury and Crumpsall, the section between Crumpsall and Manchester having already closed for conversion to Manchester Metrolink. The advantage of modelling Bury Interchange is that it is a fairly compact site which will fit nicely along the 10ft wall I have available in my home office (with a bit of prototype compression!), fiddle yard lengths will be restricted to a 2 car 504 which seemed to be the standard during the last month of operation. Operationally the unusual (for modern standards) pointwork and diamond crossover at the station throat will give some interest, I also intend to build a fully interlocked replica IFS panel based on the one at Hagside Crossing (which controlled Bury Interchange) to control signals and points which will make operation a bit more interesting. Scale wise I intend to go for P4 as I only intend to build 2 class 504s, no idea where I will get the wheels from yet or track parts suitable for flat bottomed rail!.

 

Screen grab from google maps showing the layout area below, worth noting that the ELR over bridge was built after 1991 so wont be included on my layout:

 

Bury Plan.jpg

 

Before I started building the layout I wanted to make sure I could knock together a passable representation of a class 504 (the DC kits version no longer being available). Bury without a class 504 would be like a GWR branch line without any GWR stock.

 

Luckily I was able to purchase 2 sets of DC kits 504 cab ends, roof domes and cab sides from ebay recently, which, whilst being in used condition and fairly rough were good enough to enable me to make a start. Having cleaned up the DC kits parts I got a Bachmann EPB model and stripped down all the glazing, separated the bodies from the chassis and removed the roof etc. Then I carefully cut the cab ends off using the leading edge of the cab door as a guide, replacement cab sides were then squared up and glued in place along with cab fronts and roof domes. Picture below pre-priming shows the new bits fitted on the DMBS next to the DTS already in primer:-

 

IMG_0819.JPG

 

As would be expected getting a good fit on the parts was very challenging with a lot of filler used to fill gaps and extensive sanding required (the filling and sanding process being undertaken numerous times in some areas!). The roofs were cut to allow the roof domes to be installed and blended in with filler, ribs and electrical conduit were also removed from the Bachmann roofs. Both bodies are now primed and subject to more sanding starting to look the part:-

 

IMG_0820.JPG

 

Still a fair bit of work to do on the bodies, particularly the gutter line between the roof dome and Bachmann roof however I am happy with how things are progressing. I haven't even looked at the chassis yet which will need some pretty major surgery just to enable the bodies to fit with the new cab ends. The units will be finished in orange and tan GMPTE livery with significant grafitti tags and a generally worn appearance to suit the last month in operation feel. I am not looking forward to the painting as I don't like spraying and getting the masking to sit as a straight line for the joint between the tan and orange will be a nightmare (the line is just above the door bangers which will distort the masking).

 

I know the prototype and period wont be to everyone's interest however hopefully someone has found this interesting.

Hi Jon,

 

As the track plan goes if you choose your time period correctly there was originally a flat crossing where the ELR ski-jump over bridge is now. The coal trains to Rawtenstall used to use it mainly with 21 ton hoppers and were hauled class 40's and class 25's.

 

That should bring you a bit of conflicting move type of operational interest !

 

Gibbo.

[Crisis Rail]

Well - I was there yesterday (again) on the Jock Duff 47765.

 

Best of luck  - following with interest as ever.

 

Ian

[dhjgreen]

Now following.  My period is a little earlier, 1959 so the L&Y stock was still running and it is Bolton Street.  I used DC Kits cabs and 2EPB as the start point too.

[dhjgreen]

My models are EM and I think I got the motor bogie wheels and half axles from Branchlines. It is worth measuring carefully as there is not much spare space between the frames in EM, it might be tight for P4.

Edit. The remaining wheels are standard coach wheels from EMGS Stores (they do P4 too).

Further edit. EMGS do code 83 FB rail.

Edited August 11, 2018 by dhjgreen

[MarshLane]

Evening All,

 

I have had the ambition to model the Bury to Manchester Victoria line and its class 504s for some time. I don't know why as I was very young when the line closed for conversion to the Manchester metrolink and I never saw it in operation, I think it must be a combination of the unique character of the line and the attractive GMPTE orange and tan livery!.

 

My intention is to model Bury Interchange in the last month of heavy rail operation (July 1991 to August 1991) when the line was only in operation between Bury and Crumpsall, the section between Crumpsall and Manchester having already closed for conversion to Manchester Metrolink. The advantage of modelling Bury Interchange is that it is a fairly compact site which will fit nicely along the 10ft wall I have available in my home office (with a bit of prototype compression!), fiddle yard lengths will be restricted to a 2 car 504 which seemed to be the standard during the last month of operation. Operationally the unusual (for modern standards) pointwork and diamond crossover at the station throat will give some interest, I also intend to build a fully interlocked replica IFS panel based on the one at Hagside Crossing (which controlled Bury Interchange) to control signals and points which will make operation a bit more interesting. Scale wise I intend to go for P4 as I only intend to build 2 class 504s, no idea where I will get the wheels from yet or track parts suitable for flat bottomed rail!.

 

I know the prototype and period wont be to everyone's interest however hopefully someone has found this interesting.

 

 

Jon,

Lovely idea.  Had relatives that lived along the line, so did see it in the mid 1980s, and travelled on the 504s several times into Man Vic with my Dad. Happy memories!  There's something about that line that has always held a special link with me, but I never knew DC Kits did some 504 cab ends.  You've done a superb job with the conversion so far, and while not a P4 modeller, I shall be looking forward to following your progress.  

 

Rich

[37114]

Sounds a great concept, good luck with the build.

[Gibbo675]

Evening All,

 

I have had the ambition to model the Bury to Manchester Victoria line and its class 504s for some time. I don't know why as I was very young when the line closed for conversion to the Manchester metrolink and I never saw it in operation, I think it must be a combination of the unique character of the line and the attractive GMPTE orange and tan livery!.

 

My intention is to model Bury Interchange in the last month of heavy rail operation (July 1991 to August 1991).

Hi John,

 

Here is a link to Bury Knowsley Street station that shews the flat crossing where the ELR ski-jump bridge is now;

 

http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/b/bury_knowsley_street/index.shtml

 

I used to buy bacon butties from the cabin on Knowsley Street bridge, it was all that was left of that station an has now gone also.

 

Gibbo.

[JonKing]

Hi Jon,

 

As the track plan goes if you choose your time period correctly there was originally a flat crossing where the ELR ski-jump over bridge is now. The coal trains to Rawtenstall used to use it mainly with 21 ton hoppers and were hauled class 40's and class 25's.

 

That should bring you a bit of conflicting move type of operational interest !

 

Gibbo.

 

Gibbo, thanks - I agree the flat crossing would make for a much more interesting model operationally but im afraid I like the GMPTE orange and tan livery too much so slightly outside of my time period.

 

Now following.  My period is a little earlier, 1959 so the L&Y stock was still running and it is Bolton Street.  I used DC Kits cabs and 2EPB as the start point too.

 

Those L&Y units look great, are they kit or scratch built?. Thanks also for the P4 / EM advise, I may go down the EM route if its a less involved conversion. This will be my first layout in EM or P4 so a bit of a learning curve for me to be honest (I have however hand built track before but in 00-SF).

 

Jon,

Lovely idea.  Had relatives that lived along the line, so did see it in the mid 1980s, and travelled on the 504s several times into Man Vic with my Dad. Happy memories!  There's something about that line that has always held a special link with me, but I never knew DC Kits did some 504 cab ends.  You've done a superb job with the conversion so far, and while not a P4 modeller, I shall be looking forward to following your progress.  

 

Rich

 

Rich, thanks for your feedback!. A bit more filling and sanding to do on the 504 bodies and they should then be ready for painting (once I can find my small drill bits to drill the handrail holes). I have built a few DC kits in the past and they were easy to put together resulting in a pretty good rendition of the prototype, unfortunately I never made a DC kits 504 unit and am not likely to now as they are out of production. If anyone reading this has a DC kits 504 they would like to part with please let me know 

[MarshLane]

Have you thought about putting a comment on the Wanted thread of rmWeb for a DCK 504 kit?

 

If somebody did a 7mm kit of the 504s, I’d think about a couple to convert my test track!!! Used to love riding them from Besses O’ The Barn to Victoria, nice bouncy seats far better than today’s version!

 

Rich

[JonKing]

Have you thought about putting a comment on the Wanted thread of rmWeb for a DCK 504 kit?

 

If somebody did a 7mm kit of the 504s, I’d think about a couple to convert my test track!!! Used to love riding them from Besses O’ The Barn to Victoria, nice bouncy seats far better than today’s version!

 

Rich

Thanks - good idea, just posted an ad on the wanted section.

[Jim76]

Have always thought this would make a good subject. Shame the ELR ski-jump didn't come along until later as that would make an ideal scenic break. Alternatively and if you had more space the tunnel under Manchester Road would also make a good break.

[mark axlecounter]

There is a book out about the bury 504s and the line, its by Andy Coward and its a very good read. Id advise this because it has a lot of information.

 

Mark Towers

[Joseph_Pestell]

Evening All,

 

I have had the ambition to model the Bury to Manchester Victoria line and its class 504s for some time. I don't know why as I was very young when the line closed for conversion to the Manchester metrolink and I never saw it in operation, I think it must be a combination of the unique character of the line and the attractive GMPTE orange and tan livery!.

 

My intention is to model Bury Interchange in the last month of heavy rail operation (July 1991 to August 1991) when the line was only in operation between Bury and Crumpsall, the section between Crumpsall and Manchester having already closed for conversion to Manchester Metrolink. The advantage of modelling Bury Interchange is that it is a fairly compact site which will fit nicely along the 10ft wall I have available in my home office (with a bit of prototype compression!), fiddle yard lengths will be restricted to a 2 car 504 which seemed to be the standard during the last month of operation. Operationally the unusual (for modern standards) pointwork and diamond crossover at the station throat will give some interest, I also intend to build a fully interlocked replica IFS panel based on the one at Hagside Crossing (which controlled Bury Interchange) to control signals and points which will make operation a bit more interesting. Scale wise I intend to go for P4 as I only intend to build 2 class 504s, no idea where I will get the wheels from yet or track parts suitable for flat bottomed rail!.

 

Screen grab from google maps showing the layout area below, worth noting that the ELR over bridge was built after 1991 so wont be included on my layout:

 

Bury Plan.jpg

 

Before I started building the layout I wanted to make sure I could knock together a passable representation of a class 504 (the DC kits version no longer being available). Bury without a class 504 would be like a GWR branch line without any GWR stock.

 

Luckily I was able to purchase 2 sets of DC kits 504 cab ends, roof domes and cab sides from ebay recently, which, whilst being in used condition and fairly rough were good enough to enable me to make a start. Having cleaned up the DC kits parts I got a Bachmann EPB model and stripped down all the glazing, separated the bodies from the chassis and removed the roof etc. Then I carefully cut the cab ends off using the leading edge of the cab door as a guide, replacement cab sides were then squared up and glued in place along with cab fronts and roof domes. Picture below pre-priming shows the new bits fitted on the DMBS next to the DTS already in primer:-

 

IMG_0819.JPG

 

As would be expected getting a good fit on the parts was very challenging with a lot of filler used to fill gaps and extensive sanding required (the filling and sanding process being undertaken numerous times in some areas!). The roofs were cut to allow the roof domes to be installed and blended in with filler, ribs and electrical conduit were also removed from the Bachmann roofs. Both bodies are now primed and subject to more sanding starting to look the part:-

 

IMG_0820.JPG

 

Still a fair bit of work to do on the bodies, particularly the gutter line between the roof dome and Bachmann roof however I am happy with how things are progressing. I haven't even looked at the chassis yet which will need some pretty major surgery just to enable the bodies to fit with the new cab ends. The units will be finished in orange and tan GMPTE livery with significant grafitti tags and a generally worn appearance to suit the last month in operation feel. I am not looking forward to the painting as I don't like spraying and getting the masking to sit as a straight line for the joint between the tan and orange will be a nightmare (the line is just above the door bangers which will distort the masking).

 

I know the prototype and period wont be to everyone's interest however hopefully someone has found this interesting.

 

Perhaps you could sell off the Bachmann chassis and replace with a Replica unit. Should fit more easily.

 

Or else a Black Beetle or Hanazono "Spud" would have plenty of power for a two-car unit.

[woodenhead]

I remember the 504s at Victoria, always amazed at the speed they approached the terminus but never took the train to Bury.

 

I've learnt something today though, I always thought the flat crossing had always existed and only realised today it was built after the station had shut and cut right through the middle of it.

[Joseph_Pestell]

Perhaps you could sell off the Bachmann chassis and replace with a Replica unit. Should fit more easily.

 

Or else a Black Beetle or Hanazono "Spud" would have plenty of power for a two-car unit.

 

Come to think of it, Replica still have Mk1 suburbans that you could use instead of cutting up an EPB. And I think the cabs may be available from someone on Shapeways.

http://www.replicarailways.co.uk/spares-and-accessories/spares

Edited August 13, 2018 by Joseph_Pestell

[dhjgreen]

I had a DC Kits 504, the 2EPB is a much easier conversion (recommended by Peter Crichton, owner of Holcombe Brook). I can't see what you have done with the cab fronts but they fitted the Bachmann chassis very easily for me, I will have a look, it is several years ago that I started the conversion. The L&Y lecky is 3D printed if there is interest I will post a link.

 

It is worth asking DC Kits if they have any parts left; I was able to get a pair of roofs a set of roof vents and cabs after the fire that destroyed much of the tooling.

[dhjgreen]

I've just looked at my 504. Did you get the buffer beams? I removed the Bachmann buffers from the 2EPB and used the DC Kits buffer beams and buffers, which allowed the chassis to fit.

[Joseph_Pestell]

I had a DC Kits 504, the 2EPB is a much easier conversion (recommended by Peter Crichton, owner of Holcombe Brook). I can't see what you have done with the cab fronts but they fitted the Bachmann chassis very easily for me, I will have a look, it is several years ago that I started the conversion. The L&Y lecky is 3D printed if there is interest I will post a link.

 

It is worth asking DC Kits if they have any parts left; I was able to get a pair of roofs a set of roof vents and cabs after the fire that destroyed much of the tooling.

 

That L&Y unit looks great. I had thought it was an etch job. One of Recreation21's?

[dhjgreen]

That L&Y unit looks great. I had thought it was an etch job. One of Recreation21's?

Recreation21 correct. Getting it to move is quite a challenge due to the vestibules.

[Joseph_Pestell]

Recreation21 correct. Getting it to move is quite a challenge due to the vestibules.

 

You might need to recess the floor slightly, but a Spud or Black Beetle should work OK.

[dhjgreen]

You might need to recess the floor slightly, but a Spud or Black Beetle should work OK.

I do not want to highjack this topic really. However: I raised the vestibule floors by 2mm, severely butchered the chassis (from a 504 kit) and used black beetle.

[JonKing]

There is a book out about the bury 504s and the line, its by Andy Coward and its a very good read. Id advise this because it has a lot of information.

 

Mark Towers

 

Thanks, its "The Manchester to Bury 'Lecky' Line and the Class 504 EMUs" - I have it already and its a great book. I also have a copy of "Decline of British Railways in Bury and Rossendale" which is also by Andy Coward and a good read also.

 

Perhaps you could sell off the Bachmann chassis and replace with a Replica unit. Should fit more easily.

 

Or else a Black Beetle or Hanazono "Spud" would have plenty of power for a two-car unit.

 

 

I've just looked at my 504. Did you get the buffer beams? I removed the Bachmann buffers from the 2EPB and used the DC Kits buffer beams and buffers, which allowed the chassis to fit.

 

The issue I have is that I have put some internal bracing in formed of plasticard to give some additional strength to the new cab side joints. Unfortunately I didn't check clearance with the chassis and put it in too low so it now fouls the top of the chassis. It wont be too much of an issue to file away the parts of the chassis which foul the plasticard. Alternatively I could remove the bracing but this runs the risk of weakening the cabside joints resulting in movement and copious amounts of filler falling out!.

 

Unfortunately I didn't keep the DC buffer beams either resulting in the Bachmann buffer beams being set back slightly too far when the body is on the chassis. I have rectified this by cutting off the Bachmann buffer beams and adding a 1mm fillet to the chassis in effect pushing the buffer beams out, photo below:

 

 

I do not want to highjack this topic really. However: I raised the vestibule floors by 2mm, severely butchered the chassis (from a 504 kit) and used black beetle.

 

Don't worry about that, its relevant to the topic and I like esoteric EMUs!. If I get the layout finished I can see myself getting one of these and applying "rule 1".

[Gibbo675]

Hi Jon,

 

I spotted a post by a chap called cheesysmith on Siganaller69's project page which he seems to think that DC kits have re-released the 504 body kit. Below is a link to page 19, it is the first post on the page.

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/112980-signaller69s-projects-class-303-build/page-19

 

I hope this is of use to you.

 

Gibbo.

[JonKing]

Hi Jon,

 

I spotted a post by a chap called cheesysmith on Siganaller69's project page which he seems to think that DC kits have re-released the 504 body kit. Below is a link to page 19, it is the first post on the page.

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/112980-signaller69s-projects-class-303-build/page-19

 

I hope this is of use to you.

 

Gibbo.

 

Thanks for the heads up, body kit ordered today - I have a spare Bachmann EPB chassis (power car) which will be perfect for motorising it.

 

I managed to spray the first coat of GMPTE orange this morning before heading off to work (a fairly long day in Greater Manchester and Stoke on Trent which is never ideal on a Friday, particularly given that amount of road works on the M6!). 

 

 

Next task will be to paint the GMPTE tan / brown area. The problem I have is that the bottom of this area is located just above the door bangers (indicated by the black line on the photo below). It needs to be here as moving it will make the livery look odd however having tried to mask this line already the door bangers are so close to the edge they are distorting the masking tape which will affect the "straightness" of the line, its also proving difficult to get the masking tape to bed down properly around the door bangers and door handles which will lead to overspray.

 

 

Does anyone have any ideas how I can overcome this?. Last resort will be to hand paint this area which would resolve the overspray issue, finish wouldn't be as good although I have hand painted before with marginal success. The only sprayed colour on my Amey tampers (shown elsewhere on RMweb) was the yellow, the rest (blue etc) was hand painted, primarily because I dislike the mess and hassle caused by spraying.

 

Thanks in advance!.

 

Jon