Cwm Prysor - 'The Bala Branch'

[Tom F]

Lovely picture exposing the cab/bunker join and cab roof (and the splashers catch the light):

 

Edit: look at all the other detail, too. Dents in the balance pipe between the tanks, the way the cab footplate has a metal angle/bevel to provide a footstep (or at least, a toehold) on the footplate, the cab shutters, the slaking pipe hanging over the side sheets, the rivets, the dust patterns, etc...

 

The pic is at Snowhill in Brum, and linked from the Warwickshire Railways site run by the estimable Mike Musson of this parish.

 

 

That's a nice photo Simon. Also worth noting is that the side lamp irons (storage lamps) appear to change location in some cases. Most times they are on the locos left hand side at the rear of the running plate in front of the cab, but in some cases (my 7431) the lamp irons are located near the first splasher on the left hand side. 

 

Speaking of Panniers, I was busy on the work bench last night!

 

My favourite out of all the Panniers is the 57XX/8750s. I already have a few modelled, 4645, 9793, and 5742. In my period however, two ran with earlier boilers without top feeds, 5774 and 9669. I had always wanted to model at least one of these. However I never felt I was a good enough modeller to do the scalpel work that is required to removed the pipework and topfeed (and plug the hole left from the removal of the toppled).

 

5774 is born!

 

 

I removed the rear lifting loops as I'd nicked them with the scalpel. I've made up some replacements with 5 amp fuse wire, which I'll be re adding later today.

 

It will look better with the primer on, and appearances can be deceiving, as I've now used the fibre brush and sanding sticks on the body and its all very smooth.

 

Feeling rather pleased so far!

Edited September 9, 2018 by 9793

[PMP]

If you’ve removed the rear tank lift rings, it’ll make sense to do the front rings too otherwise the mismatch will look odd. Good to see you having a go at one.

[Tom F]

If you’ve removed the rear tank lift rings, it’ll make sense to do the front rings too otherwise the mismatch will look odd. Good to see you having a go at one.

 

 

Yeah, it's something I'd thought about and like you say, you'd notice the difference. 

[Captain Kernow]

Looking good there, Tom. I may well have a go myself at some point!

 

One thing I've also been thinking about is using Archers rivets to do a riveted tank pannier, has anyone else done this, I wonder?

[Tom F]

Looking good there, Tom. I may well have a go myself at some point!

 

One thing I've also been thinking about is using Archers rivets to do a riveted tank pannier, has anyone else done this, I wonder?

That’s another one I’ve got planned to do 8727 with riveted tanks, which I believe is the loco in PGH’s photo of this parish (this is one of my favourite photos of the branch). It’s clearly a 57XX but I’m pretty sure i can see the horizontal line of rivits on the tanks, plus it has a top feed which rules it out being 5774.

 

Edited September 9, 2018 by 9793

[Tom F]

For those interested, the photo above's location is about a quarter of a mile past Arenig and about a couple of miles from Cwm Prysor, with the hulk of Mochowgryn beyond. The small road in the background is the Arenig Road, about to join the old Bala-Ffestiniog road. Today there is a junction for the old road and the bigger A4212 carries on to Trawsfynnyd. Back in the late 50s...there was only a small single track that pottered across the moorland to Cwm Prysor and Trawsfynydd beyond.

 

Bleak, but stunning landscape.... must have felt incredibly isolated up there. I often imaging being a guard on a late train, the light of day failing fast, the winds getting up....heavy rain thundering down....and all the guard can think is 'I'll be glad to get to Bala'.

Edited September 9, 2018 by 9793

[The Johnster]

I think the threat of snow would have worried me more than anything else up there; trains can continue to run in very heavy rain and strong winds!  And it wouldn't have been just the guard with misgivings and glad to see the lights of Bala on such nights; the passengers were mostly local who knew what the weather could do to them if things turned bad...

 

The trick then is to keep steam up and wait for rescue; steam means the stock can be heated and the loco kept in service.  If the fire goes out, you are in big trouble, and so is the loco when it is recovered.

Edited September 9, 2018 by The Johnster

[46444]

Looking good there, Tom. I may well have a go myself at some point!

 

One thing I've also been thinking about is using Archers rivets to do a riveted tank pannier, has anyone else done this, I wonder?

 

 

That’s another one I’ve got planned to do 8727 with riveted tanks, which I believe is the loco in PGH’s photo of this parish (this is one of my favourite photos of the branch). It’s clearly a 57XX but I’m pretty sure i can see the horizontal line of rivits on the tanks, plus it has a top feed which rules it out being 5774.

 

61A9F6F0-9764-45F3-9D22-B09C2AC74E92.jpeg

 

 

I'd be interested in seeing a riveted tanked conversion as well.  I'm planning on doing Gloucester's 8745 which I believe had riveted tanks and was a Forest of Dean regular in later years.

 

Nice work on removing the top feed for 5774 Tom.

 

Cheers,

 

Mark

Edited September 9, 2018 by 46444

[Tom F]

I think the threat of snow would have worried me more than anything else up there; trains can continue to run in very heavy rain and strong winds!  And it wouldn't have been just the guard with misgivings and glad to see the lights of Bala on such nights; the passengers were mostly local who knew what the weather could do to them if things turned bad...

 

The trick then is to keep steam up and wait for rescue; steam means the stock can be heated and the loco kept in service.  If the fire goes out, you are in big trouble, and so is the loco when it is recovered.

 

 

This should prove some interesting reading for you.

 

[PMP]

I’ve done a few a couple without feed and riveted tanks, they come out well, Tim, you probably drove it at Warminster, as it’s one of the Shelfie1 steam regulars as it’s ‘different’. This is done as an FoD loco so 8749 is suitable too. I’ve got pics of 8745 in 65, late BR logo, top feed and riveted tanks.

Link to pic of 8749

https://albionyard.wordpress.com/2015/03/25/wordless-wednesday-87xx/

[Captain Kernow]

I’ve done a few a couple without feed and riveted tanks, they come out well, Tim, you probably drove it at Warminster, as it’s one of the Shelfie1 steam regulars as it’s ‘different’. This is done as an FoD loco so 8749 is suitable too. I’ve got pics of 8745 in 65, late BR logo, top feed and riveted tanks.

Link to pic of 8749

https://albionyard.wordpress.com/2015/03/25/wordless-wednesday-87xx/

Lovely, Paul.

 

So was it just the 5 (?) rows of rivets on the tanks or are there more rivets that you can't see in the photo, please?

[The Johnster]

Shows that snow was enough of an issue up in the wild and wooly to be considered in local instructions.

[Northmoor]

Shows that snow was enough of an issue up in the wild and wooly to be considered in local instructions.

I wonder whether the same considerations existed on the Brecon & Merthyr, or some other lines in the Beacons?

[The Johnster]

Don't know off hand.  The B & M, gnarly though it was, was not as open, bleak, and exposed as this line though.  The Neath and Brecon rivalled it in the Cray area on the lower slopes of Fan Gyhirych, though, it didn't get much more exposed to the westerlies than that!

[46444]

I’ve done a few a couple without feed and riveted tanks, they come out well, Tim, you probably drove it at Warminster, as it’s one of the Shelfie1 steam regulars as it’s ‘different’. This is done as an FoD loco so 8749 is suitable too. I’ve got pics of 8745 in 65, late BR logo, top feed and riveted tanks.

Link to pic of 8749

https://albionyard.wordpress.com/2015/03/25/wordless-wednesday-87xx/

 

Very nice conversion Paul.

 

Out of interest which set of Archers rivet transfers did you use?

 

Cheers,

 

Mark

[PMP]

Tim,

Apols as it was about four years ago, as I recall it was the five rows, and some of the top plate rivets that needed replacing after removal of the top feed.

 

Mark,

A quick delve into my archives, I used an O Gauge set 5/8th Head rivets for streetcars, they looked like they had the right number and spacing, so I used them!

[Tom F]

I’ve done a few a couple without feed and riveted tanks, they come out well, Tim, you probably drove it at Warminster, as it’s one of the Shelfie1 steam regulars as it’s ‘different’. This is done as an FoD loco so 8749 is suitable too. I’ve got pics of 8745 in 65, late BR logo, top feed and riveted tanks.

Link to pic of 8749

https://albionyard.wordpress.com/2015/03/25/wordless-wednesday-87xx/

 

Very nice work Paul.

You should set up a Workbench thread, I'm sure many of us would appreciate seeing your work step by step.

[wiggoforgold]

Great looking layout Tom. I do like the railway in a landscape look, keeping things simple, with the sense of space it gives.

I also like your panniers, and I have been looking at the pics and reading your blog with interest. I've got an idea for a layout set in Cornwall c1960, and I need a pannier. I want one with the early style cab, so I planning to graft a Replica cab on to a more recent Bachmann 8750. The problem is I want a Cornish engine c1960, and I've narrowed it down to 5744 or 7715. However, 5744 only had the chimney liner as when it moved to Cornwall it had a spark arresting chimney that was removed, and 7715 had riveted tanks; decisions decisions....

Alex

[AdeMoore]

https://albionyard.wordpress.com/2012/03/15/fifteen-minute-heroes/

A quick how to on Masokits screw couplings here, including the ordering link. Masokits are old school though, no web site, payment only via cheque or postal order. The turn round is pretty quick nevertheless

Sorry to bring this up again but is the below what I’m after? 8.01 and 8.02?

For coaches locos do you use These?

 

Quote “3 links I now use a different method. I use etched hooks and loose chain from Ambis and make them up quite easily with a pair of pliers. The hooks are a nice size, not as over scale as Smiths though, and they do different hooks for BR, RCH etc.”

 

 

Any of the above?

Cheers

[Tom F]

Sorry to bring this up again but is the below what I’m after? 8.01 and 8.02?

For coaches locos do you use These?

0EEE51CC-966F-478E-96F3-15812316660E.png

 

Quote “3 links I now use a different method. I use etched hooks and loose chain from Ambis and make them up quite easily with a pair of pliers. The hooks are a nice size, not as over scale as Smiths though, and they do different hooks for BR, RCH etc.”

 

DAE3D0A9-DB44-454E-9922-07BF30267C12.png

 

Any of the above?

Cheers

 

 

Ade, it's 8.01 you want from Masokits.

Ambis CH1-2, CH2-2 and CCE1, CCM1 and finally CCL1

They are what I use anyway.  

[The Johnster]

Great looking layout Tom. I do like the railway in a landscape look, keeping things simple, with the sense of space it gives.

I also like your panniers, and I have been looking at the pics and reading your blog with interest. I've got an idea for a layout set in Cornwall c1960, and I need a pannier. I want one with the early style cab, so I planning to graft a Replica cab on to a more recent Bachmann 8750. The problem is I want a Cornish engine c1960, and I've narrowed it down to 5744 or 7715. However, 5744 only had the chimney liner as when it moved to Cornwall it had a spark arresting chimney that was removed, and 7715 had riveted tanks; decisions decisions....

Alex

 

Presumably you are in possession of a Bachmann 8750 which you want to convert to a 57xx, or it would be easier to just buy a Bachmann 57xx and have that in addition to your 8750...  There is nothing wrong with the Replica cab, which is the same as the Mainline one that preceded it and as the current Bachmann 57xx AFAIK. 

 

I have the opposite to this, a Mainline 57xx body on to which I grafted an old K's 57xx cab, as I was too impatient to wait for Mainline to introduce the 8750 version.  Looks fine, especially as I've hidden the lack of cab interior detail with a crew and the sliding shutters (inside the cab cutouts; came back as far as the cab doors for weather protection) are modelled in the closed position.  This is dead easy, any piece of plastic sheet painted black or green depending on BR or GW period will do!  My K's cab is looking a bit battered and old, now, though, with no cab rear detail and very thick sides, so I am looking for a current 8750 at the right price to replace it with.  Not this month though; spend all my spare money on a 56xx on eBay!

 

It's on it's second chassis; the original Mainline is as the snows of yesteryear like most of them are and it is running on a secondhand one, either late Replica or early Bachmann because it isn't the split Mainline version or the same as the one under my current Baccy 57xx.  It's not a bad runner, but not as good as the current Bachmann, which is not far off perfect!

Edited September 9, 2018 by The Johnster

[AdeMoore]

Ade, it's 8.01 you want from Masokits.

Ambis CH1-2, CH2-2 and CCE1, CCM1 and finally CCL1

 

They are what I use anyway.

 

Superb thanks Tom, I’ll order some up and see how I get on.

Just one final question they’re H.O.God operation not auto in any way?

Cheers

[Tom F]

Superb thanks Tom, I’ll order some up and see how I get on.

Just one final question they’re H.O.God operation not auto in any way?

Cheers

Yep they are all HOD!

They do some screw links, but I prefer masokits. I’ll be interested to know how you get on

[PMP]

Presumably you are in possession of a Bachmann 8750 which you want to convert to a 57xx, or it would be easier to just buy a Bachmann 57xx and have that in addition to your 8750...  There is nothing wrong with the Replica cab, which is the same as the Mainline one that preceded it and as the current Bachmann 57xx AFAIK. 

 

They’re not remotely close, the Bachmann 57xx revised tooling has a completely different construction to the Mainline/Replica tooling, and is far better. Cabsides as well as front and rear are significantly different between hi and low cab versions, which is reflected in the tooling. The Mainline derived tooling was never intended to have a high cab version and is designed as such. The chassis mounting of the bodies is different too.

The best option is to get the ‘current’ Bachmann version of the 57xx, easily identifiable as it has separate cab and centre tank grab rails and a correct dome, the one you don’t want to get is pictured below, this is the early Bachmann body with dreadful split chassis construction. It’s really worth searching out a recent Bachmann low cab 57xx if that’s where you want to be, it’s a much more accurate and better tooling to start from.

[Tom F]

Coaching stock was a real I opener when I began looking into modelling the branch.

I was rather naive (not originally being a GWR modeller) and thought the humble B set would do. 

From 1955 onwards, stock was primarily a single Brake Composite of two variates. I should add this information was kindly given to me by chrisf of this parish.

 

E157 Brake Composites were of a Collet design, on a 57' under frame. 

 

E167 was the Hawksworth version of the Brake Composite. These are seen in the majority of the late 1950s photos on the branch, often coupled to a BR all 3rd Suburban as part of the Saturday Only working. The E167 was quite a bit longer than the E157 with a 63ft under frame. Both coaches seen in this photo are E167.

Copyright Ben Brooksbank Creative Commons Attribution Share-alike license 2.0

 

So, my number one headache when I came to modelling the branch....was that both of these coaches are not available, RTR or kit form. Thanks to chrisf pointing me into the right direction of where to acquire plans for both coaches. I commissioned Worsley Works to produce etched sides for both diagrams. The E157 of mine was built by Jonathan Wealleans, using comets E147 kit (it's practically the same mine one a first class compartment). I run an E147 as they were used in Wales and look very similar to the E157.

 

The issue has been that the E167 has ends unlike other GWR kits available. It's sparse of detail, but with very little to know tumblehome. I have been waiting on Worsley Works to produce the ends for it for 2 years. Anyhow I've now sourced someone else to produce one, and hopefully next year one will be joining the layout, built by Messr Wealleans once again. The kit will use comet components to complete.