Barrwick - Modern image layout

[Fluo66]

Hello all.

 

I want to start a new 00 gauge layout called „Barrwick“. It is a fictional modern image (2000s) layout based in the scottish borders region. I have a railway room which measures 4.1 x 3.2 metres. In the past 5 years I started several room filling layouts around the walls to use the maximum available space. But none has satisfied me due to some reasons. I had to install a removable section in one corner but the connections deformed after weeks. I tried to fix this many times but with no success. I had never a proper fiddle yard to store a lot of my trains. There was also not the space for a proper workbench and this was very frustrating sometimes. And many other things.... I never had real running sessions in the last years. So I want to dismantle the current layout and start a new. This decision is final.

 

The new layout is inspired by some other modern image layouts like Oak Road, New Bryford or Loftus Road. Here is a plan of the room and the layout:

 

 

 

The new layout is a roundy-roundy double track with 2 attached fiddle yards. This is a bit unusual but fills all my needs. Mainly I want to run trains. The trains can run from one fiddle yard to another passing the station and or the TMD. When a train arrives in the fiddle yard the loco will be uncoupled and an other loco comes in and can pull the train back.

 

The main board is 1.2 by 3.2 metres and divided in two halfs using a backscene. On one half the station „Barrwick“ is located. The other half contains the TMD called „Dunwell TMD“. The curved sections are hidden in a tunnel or disguised by bridges. I tried to curve the station and the TMD area a bit to avoid to many straight tracks. The divider in the middle of the board is wide enough so that I can install an illumination at later stage if necessary.

 

 

TRACK

I use PECO code 75 concrete sleeper track and points in the visible section. I will widening the sleeper space as described in many other topics here in the forum. Unfortunately only medium straight points with concrete sleepers are available. The turnouts 2, 4 and 5 are Y-points and the turnout #1 is curved. I hope I can bend the points a bit to get this result. The track base will be cork.

 

In the hidden section and in the fiddle yards I will use Peco code 100 with Streamline turnouts. But 4 of the turnouts must be Setrack curved points at least the 2 in the tunnel crossover (#7 and #8). The crossover is necessary for trains on platform 2 that want to depart directly to the left fiddle yard (at this point I think I need a name for the yards). I read about the problems (derailments) with this type of points and hope I can avoid this. The minimum radius on the layout is 438mm (R2).

 

ELECTRICS/CONTROL

The locos are DCC controlled. All points on the main board will have servos. The points in the fiddle yard will have a mix of Seep and Peco point motors because I have them already. For controlling the points I want to use MegaPoints components and 2 mimic panels on each side of the layout. I have not a proper DCC controller yet (only a Hornby Select). I consider to buy a SignaTrak controller.

 

So what do you think? Is there something wrong with the track plan or any other thoughts?

 

Cheers,

Guido

Edited October 4, 2018 by Fluo66

[mdvle]

Immediate thought - the space between the layout and the fiddle yards is very narrow and will not be comfortable to stand in when operating the layout.

[Fluo66]

I also thought about it. The distance between the fiddle yard and the main baseboard is 70 cm. I tried that with two tables and the space is very convenient to work and operate.

[woodenhead]

I also thought about it. The distance between the fiddle yard and the main baseboard is 70 cm. I tried that with two tables and the space is very convenient to work and operate.

You need to remember that like investments our body size is subject to fluctuation, have you allowed for winter clothes and winter girth.

[imt]

Happy to comment but I am unable to "see" or download your layout diagram.

[Fluo66]

Happy to comment but I am unable to "see" or download your layout diagram.

Don't know why the image disappeared... I uploaded it again and hope you can see it now.

[Fluo66]

You need to remember that like investments our body size is subject to fluctuation, have you allowed for winter clothes and winter girth.

You are probalbly right about the body size but the layout is located in our house and I don't want to wear winter clothes inside.  

[Zomboid]

I think it's a good basic concept. I might try and get the top left crossover under the "country scene" so that you're not running wrong line in the visible section, but otherwise it looks good.

 

If aisle width might be an issue, then consider a vertical traverser or casettes, but personally I'd be fine with them being 2' or so wide.

[Fluo66]

I think it's a good basic concept. I might try and get the top left crossover under the "country scene" so that you're not running wrong line in the visible section, but otherwise it looks good.

 

If aisle width might be an issue, then consider a vertical traverser or casettes, but personally I'd be fine with them being 2' or so wide.

I appreciate your suggestions. I tried to fit the crossover under the hidden section before I uploaded the first plan. As you can see it doesn't fit with the baseboard width:

 

 

On the other hand these were too many curved points in a row = higher risk of derailments. And I want to avoid the Setrack curved points wherever possible.

 

I don't think that the aisle is an issue. The fiddle yards are just 1' wide. I do not want to use cassettes. Vertical traversers would be great but not easy to build. During the construction of the layout the fiddle yards are not needed. They can be installed later and I'll have much more space if necessary.

[Zomboid]

I see the problem. You can just say it's what it is then - the start of a single lead junction where the rest is off scene.

 

I'd actually make it a 2 into 1 junction, which would be operationally quite interesting, but that would cost you the ability to circulate 2 trains at the same time. Being into American trains a single track main has quite an appeal for me. I guess the Highland main line would be your example, or bits of the GSW. But I digress...

Edited September 23, 2018 by Zomboid

[Fluo66]

I considered that the inner track between point 7 and 12 could be closed due to track construction works. This could be an interesting scene and would also give operational interest. I must not run 2 trains at the same time on the inner and outer loop.

 

[Zomboid]

Maybe point 12 and the track to the tunnel could be shown as brand new, as a consequence of re-doubling works. You could then run it as double if you wanted, or say that it hasn't been commissioned yet and run that corner as single. Construction to bring brought into use can take quite a long time for those kinds of projects.

[Fluo66]

I will keep the point #7. This track could be used by ballast trains etc. Richards layout "New Junction" on Youtube is a good example for that.

[Fluo66]

Here are some pictures of my previous layout to give you a few impressions. It looks finished but is isn't:

 

 

The only thing that I will really miss is the viaduct scene (here whithout water):

 

[TonyMay]

Given the space available, I would definitely recommend you at least think about reconfiguring it as a round-the-wall roundy-roundy with the viewing/operating in the middle and a lifty-outy section.

 

That would allow you to expand out your curve, and trains look better from the inside of a curve, rather than from the outside.

 

I'm also not sure about "Scottish Borders" setting.  That for me suggests great big hills as scenery, sparse services, etc, whereas what you've drawn seems much more urban and intense.

[imt]

I agree with Tony. I think your idea of a central layout with 2 fiddle yards is tempting BUT you don't have the space to do it justice and will be making a lot of compromises.  Nobody has mentioned the problem of light engines from the station which will either be wrong line or reversing over 11/12 to get to the TMD.  It probably also isn't good practice to have direct entry to a TMD off a main line - but that's a matter of choice (Rule 1).  You could reverse the TMD and have a single slip on the crossing to save some fiddling about.

 

You MAY have lots of stock you want to keep on show - but if not who needs 12 fiddle yard lines?  Think about using cassettes for example, so you can keeps rakes together but maybe store them on shelves above the layout?

 

Your current layout photos look good and things seem spacious.  I would suggest you need to work to keep the same appearance.

 

I think you may be able to "save" your concept by making the top left baseboard wider so the curve and points fit in and bulge the central board (on both sides?) slightly and then curve it inwards - this will relieve the long straight on the left hand side and could perhaps make the station more interesting.  There would be a squeeze to get at the upper fiddle yard points - but hopefully you won't need to do that very often.

[Harlequin]

The circuits are very tightly packed onto the 1.2m wide board with some tight radii there and in the fiddle yards and it seems odd to create a double track circuit and then declare part of it closed.

 

There really ought to be a more comfortable way to fit a layout and a decent workbench into a room of that size that would be easier to live with and have fewer compromises.

 

What was the problem with your previous removable section? Lots of people have made them work reliably over the years.

Edited September 27, 2018 by Harlequin

[Fluo66]

Hello guys,

Thank you very much for your thoughts and comments.
 

Given the space available, I would definitely recommend you at least think about reconfiguring it as a round-the-wall roundy-roundy with the viewing/operating in the middle and a lifty-outy section.
 
That would allow you to expand out your curve, and trains look better from the inside of a curve, rather than from the outside.
 
I'm also not sure about "Scottish Borders" setting.  That for me suggests great big hills as scenery, sparse services, etc, whereas what you've drawn seems much more urban and intense.

Tony, as I wrote I am not happy with the current setting with the lift-out section having the operation well in the middle of the layout. The new layout would give me two more or less independent operation areas (station and TMD). I now extended the baseboard by 10 cm. This would allow me to expand the inner curve radius at the bottom from R2 (44 cm) to 54 cm. I have chosen the Scottish borders area beacuse I spend my holidays 2 times there. "South scotland" would describe it better. I did not want to write "Scottish layout" because most people would think otherwise, it would be settled in the Highlands. As I wrote it is fictional. It is set in somewhere the surroundings of Edinburgh.

 

 

Nobody has mentioned the problem of light engines from the station which will either be wrong line or reversing over 11/12 to get to the TMD. It probably also isn't good practice to have direct entry to a TMD off a main line - but that's a matter of choice (Rule 1). You could reverse the TMD and have a single slip on the crossing to save some fiddling about.

The station and the TMD are 2 independent areas in my eyes that are operated independently. But I added a crossover on the entrance of the TMD. It is a good idea.
 

You MAY have lots of stock you want to keep on show - but if not who needs 12 fiddle yard lines?  Think about using cassettes for example, so you can keeps rakes together but maybe store them on shelves above the layout?

I think you may be able to "save" your concept by making the top left baseboard wider so the curve and points fit in and bulge the central board (on both sides?) slightly and then curve it inwards - this will relieve the long straight on the left hand side and could perhaps make the station more interesting.  There would be a squeeze to get at the upper fiddle yard points - but hopefully you won't need to do that very often.

12 tracks in the fiddle yard ais not that much for a home layout in my eyes. One track must kept clear in both yards to trains runnign from one fiddle yard to the other via the main layout. In my updated plan I reduced to fiddle yards to 10 tracks. This allowes me to extend the main board by 10 cm.
 

Your current layout photos look good and things seem spacious. I would suggest you need to work to keep the same appearance.

Thanks for that. Yes it is my plan to keep the appearance of the old layout. I have learned a lot during the building. And This time I want to improve it as good as I can.

 

I think you may be able to "save" your concept by making the top left baseboard wider so the curve and points fit in and bulge the central board (on both sides?) slightly and then curve it inwards - this will relieve the long straight on the left hand side and could perhaps make the station more interesting. There would be a squeeze to get at the upper fiddle yard points - but hopefully you won't need to do that very often.

I widened the whole baseboard by 10 cm and moved the crossover on the left into the tunnel. I can reacj points in the tunnel. This wouldn't be a problem.
 
 

The circuits are very tightly packed onto the 1.2m wide board with some tight radii there and in the fiddle yards and it seems odd to create a double track circuit and then declare part of it closed.
 
There really ought to be a more comfortable way to fit a layout and a decent workbench into a room of that size that would be easier to live with and have fewer compromises.
 
What was the problem with your previous removable section? Lots of people have made them work reliably over the years.

I extended the beaseboard to 1.30m and inner radius radius at the bottom to 54 cm. The lift-out section on the previous layout was made from 10 mm playwood. As you can see in the track plan the door is located in the lower right corner. The lift-out section therefore must be diagonal 45 degrees and at least 1.40 m long. It deformed after a few weeks and the track connections no longer fit togehter in height. The height difference was about 1-2mm, far too much for a reliable operation...
 
Here is the updated track plan:

 

[Hillend]

To Fluo66, those are great pictures of your previous layout. Such crisp and clearly focused shots. A refreshing change to most pictures on the internet. Kind regards, Barry.

[DCB]

Lift out or lifting sections don't have to be a complete nightmare.   I have a double lifting section with two levels one above the other where the upper actually lands on the lower and the maintenance is do able needing a tweak usually every spring and summer to adjust for expansion with temperature variations. Total length circa 36 " so shorter than yours but since I used car bonnet hinges instead of domestic hinges I can get in or out in 20 sec, that is check where the train is, lift the top to its catch near the ceiling, lift the bottom, open the door lower the bottom and lower the top with a wriggle to align its tapered location dowel.  It is quite, well very heavy 2X1 framed like a conventional baseboard.

 

I had a lift out engineered the opposite way seasoned 2 X 1 on its side 1" high with the sides slotted to take 6mm ply / mdf and braced underneath only at the ends. Primarily a duck under you could disconnect the wiring Din plug and remove it or swing it down using the slack in the wiring if preferred.  It was to have gained parapet walls like a viaduct but I never bothered, but it was very light and rigid and with old seasoned but nicely sanded wood it never warped.     

 

I never use new timber.  You find much better quality timber in skips than at B and whatsit or wich, seriously. Old doors are great as are worm free floorboards.  Offer the site foreman a drink if you can raid his skip, they usually say help yourself as they have to pay for the skip to be emptied.   I did make baseboards from new timber 30 years ago but some of it is like a dogs hind leg now whereas the seasoned stuff sanded and planed up is almost as good as when installed.