W 207 W, a reworking of a K's auto trailer.

[lofty1966]

3 hours ago, The Johnster said:

Looked the same to me, but I’ll check it out before taking the plunge; thanks Tim.  Makes sense of course, Stafford Road do a body print for an 1854 in saddle tank guise. 

 

Then again, they do a 517 as well...

The 517 sits on a Hornby 14xx chassis and as a result is a scale foot too long.

[Coach bogie]

There is a K's B set coach on ebay that comes with fish belly bogies

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/KEYSER-Ks-KIT-for-a-GWR-57-B-SET-COACH-OO-Gauge/312555934997?hash=item48c5c91515:g:3a4AAOSwHoBcozri

 

Mike Wiltshire

[The Johnster]

9 hours ago, lofty1966 said:

The 517 sits on a Hornby 14xx chassis and as a result is a scale foot too long.

They admit as much in the blurb for it, and that the cabbed version has missing rivets to make room for Fair Rosamund's nameplates, so can only be made up as that model.  517s are beyond my remit, though, as Tondu seems not to have had any in 1948, though I think Llantrisant had a couple.

[The Johnster]

7 hours ago, Coach bogie said:

There is a K's B set coach on ebay that comes with fish belly bogies

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/KEYSER-Ks-KIT-for-a-GWR-57-B-SET-COACH-OO-Gauge/312555934997?hash=item48c5c91515:g:3a4AAOSwHoBcozri

 

Mike Wiltshire

Thanks for the heads up, Mike; this is a flat ended type and is worth a punt in it's own right as the flat ended B sets were split and run singly in their later lives.  Not sure any got to Tondu, which had flat enders still in B sets, which I intend one day to replicate with Comets, but it's close enough for Rule 1 IMHO.  I've already ordered the 3D print fishbellies from Stafford Road, so from a position of a complete dearth of fishbellies I am now given a choice!  

Edited April 8, 2019 by The Johnster

[Joseph_Pestell]

There's a nice looking one on EBay with just 10 minutes to go

[The Johnster]

Cracking on with the interior.  Same card as the floor; came as a piece of packing or something, about 1mm thick, stuck in with Gorilla superglue (I like this stuff, not too runny so you’ve got some say in where it goes, and it goes off proper ‘ard).  Lewis has a GA drawing which gives the seating arrangement, but, for the benefit of those who are Lewisless, from the luggage compartment bulkhead reading forwards into rear saloon, 3 seater bench along the side with 2 intermediate arms corresponding to large window/double droplight/large window, then back of seating bay with facing seat, another back, and a pair of half bay seats backing on to the passenger vestibule bulkhead, all repeat on opposite side.  This makes more sense when you line the seating up with the windows and droplights. 

 

For the front saloon, 2 seater bench with 1 intermediate arm, corresponding to 2 large windows, then full bay corresponding to 2 droplights, a rearward facing half bay with a smaller window, and another full bay with a full size window, up against the driving cab bulkhead.  

 

This is significantly different enough to the RTR interiors to require scratchbuilding, which makes it sound as if I’m some sort of superskilled finescale modeller, a concept immediately dispelled if you see any of my work! This is pretty crude card, craft knife, and glue stuff, the sort of thing I was doing in my early teens, which makes it no less fun.  I’m cutting parts out, seat backs and wings, by sight not by measurement, and positioning them by sight using the windows as a guide; if it looks about right that’ll do.  There’ll be less light to see the crudity by when the toplights are plated in. 

 

When the coach is in service, a general impression that there’s something inside will be sufficient to lift it above it’s K’s original state.  

 

State of play at present is I’ve done the backs and fixed them in (‘fixed’ sounds better than ‘glued’), and cut out the wings; snipped the corners off the wings to suggest the round finishe wooden moulding.  Stopped for dinner, and should be able to do the actual seats, Milliput probably, and the benches later. 

 

Painting will be grey floor and upholstery, dark brown for the backs and wings. Interior walls and bulkheads dark brown, cream in vestibule, luggage compartment, and cab. 

 

The cab windows slope backwards towards the top slightly, and I haven’t noticed this on any other GW trailer or railmotor.  Is this correct or a function of the whitemetal casting?  If the latter, I’ll have to correct it, as if I know it’s wrong it’s one of those things that’ll drive me nuts, despite my tolerance of incorrect wheel spacing on a Hornby 2721.  The only thing I’m consistent with is inconsistency!!!

Edited April 8, 2019 by The Johnster

[lofty1966]

I think you'll find they should be vertical.

You may also find that the sides are not the same length either due to K's dodgy casting.

Once the roof is on you won't notice.

[The Johnster]

7 hours ago, lofty1966 said:

I think you'll find they should be vertical.

You may also find that the sides are not the same length either due to K's dodgy casting.

Once the roof is on you won't notice.

More thanks, Lofty; photographs in Lewis seem to suggest that they are indeed vertical and the slope on the model is down to dodgy casting.  My sides seem to be the same length, though, and the coach has been squarely enough assembled, but the front is going to have to come off now and the glazing put in vertically.  it's not bad assembly by the original builder, and the glazing has not been put in wonky but properly fitted to the back of the openings, which has given it this slope.  It'll catch the light and reflect all wrong...  a bit of fettling of the inside surface of the cab front is called for!

 

Finished the seat backs and wings; still got the actual seats and the benches to do.  I'll try and get a photo session done soon so as to show off what I've done here!

[lofty1966]

I had to fill up the poor joint on one of my builds.

Just realised I have another two K's autotrailers lurking in a box somewhere!

That's five of the damn things!

Is that a bit excessive?

 

[kandc_au]

Easy remedy...do a search for the correct section of the forum and ask Stafford Road for the answer. I cannot remember his name or I would tell you.

[The Johnster]

9 hours ago, lofty1966 said:

I had to fill up the poor joint on one of my builds.

Just realised I have another two K's autotrailers lurking in a box somewhere!

That's five of the damn things!

Is that a bit excessive?

 

Version one, 204 with American bogies and Swindon door.  Version 2, Swindon door and fishbelly bogies,  Version 3, Swindon door and Collett 7' bogies.  Version 4, Gloucester door and fishbellys. Version 5, Gloucester door and Colletts.  Version 6, W 207 W with plated toplights.

 

This doesn't include permutations of livery and luggage compartment end windows.  You haven't got nearly enough of them, Lofty...

[The Johnster]

Been thinking about the front windows, having removed the cab front to deal with them.  Kit is epoxied together and pulling the front off wasn’t difficult!

 

There are, it seems, 3 possibilities.  The first is to attempt to fit windows in to the reveals, which would mean more of a flush glazed effect.  But I have serious doubts as to my ability to make a neat job of this; I just don’t think I can manage that sort of precision for one window, never mind 3. 

 

Second idea deal is to use a flush glazing kit put carefully in place and fixed in a vertical position.  SE Finecast do one for the Airfix/Hornby A28/30, but I’ll have to measure up that the dimensions are identical.  I can always use it on an A28/30 if it doesn’t fit this!

 

3rd option is to remove metal from the inside surface and merge the piece so that windows can be fitted to the back in a vertical position, probably a lot of faffing and fitting but simple enough in principle.  Possible problem is the weakening of the piece. 

 

Suggestions welcome...

[lofty1966]

4 hours ago, The Johnster said:

Been thinking about the front windows, having removed the cab front to deal with them.  Kit is epoxied together and pulling the front off wasn’t difficult!

 

There are, it seems, 3 possibilities.  The first is to attempt to fit windows in to the reveals, which would mean more of a flush glazed effect.  But I have serious doubts as to my ability to make a neat job of this; I just don’t think I can manage that sort of precision for one window, never mind 3. 

 

Second idea deal is to use a flush glazing kit put carefully in place and fixed in a vertical position.  SE Finecast do one for the Airfix/Hornby A28/30, but I’ll have to measure up that the dimensions are identical.  I can always use it on an A28/30 if it doesn’t fit this!

 

3rd option is to remove metal from the inside surface and merge the piece so that windows can be fitted to the back in a vertical position, probably a lot of faffing and fitting but simple enough in principle.  Possible problem is the weakening of the piece. 

 

Suggestions welcome...

I couldn't find any SE Finecast flushglazing in any GWR packs that would fit.

That's where I stalled on my builds.

 

[Gordon A]

How about laser cut glazing by Shawplan that they market for the Airfix / Hornby autocoach?

 

Gordon A

[The Johnster]

So, unless the Shawplan glazing fits, that's option 2 on the skids, and if the SE Fincast glazing doesn't fit because of being designed for the Airfix/Hornby A28/30, one might assume that the Shawplan glazing for the same model won't either.  Just now measured an A28/30's front windows for height; 11.5 mm, and the K's A31 windows are 11.25, so there is a discrepancy of about a scale 3 inches.  I don't know if the K's model is inaccurate in this respect, but I suspect it is not.

 

Plan c,  then.  Careful removal of metal from the top of the inside of the window reveals so as not to overly weaken the structure at a point where only the pillars are holding it together. until the glazing can lie flat on the inside of the cab positioned face down.  On the plus side, as I'm out of alternatives, this has removed the problem of having to make the decision!  

 

Thanks for the input, again, gents.

Edited April 10, 2019 by The Johnster

[The Johnster]

Photos showing the current state of play, but they seem to be taking a long time to load and are 'Queued'.  I shall proceed in hope... 

 

IMG_1310jpg shows what was originally purchased, though the glazing and cab front have been removed since.  IMG_1311jpg is an overhead shot showing progress so far with the seating and interior, and IMG_1313 shows it with the roof in position.  

 

I've been doing a bit of filing on the cab front interior to get the windows to sit vertical, and generally cleaning it up; there was a bit of stray epoxy resin around the buffer beam.  I'm not happy with the cast regulator handle mounting plate on the outside, a poor piece of casting that is not very crisp and is definitely not level.  Moreover, the rivets are not evenly spaced; the one in Lofty's photo looks much better.  So I'll be looking for a replacement, ideally etched brass, and maybe even having a go at scratching one if I can't source one!  Not very happy with the bell, either, which doesn't sit at the right angle and looks a bit malnourished to my view.  I'm coming more to the idea of buying a cheapo A28/30 off 'Bay to provide buffers and buffer housings and the bell.  

 

It should look a lot different to this when I've finished with it, with BR crimson livery and plated toplights.  Should another one ever come my way, I'll go for 204, another Newport trailer, with American bogies, toplights, and Swindon type door in late GW livery for variety.  The doors are inherited from the steam railmotors these trailers were converted from, a Diagram Q built at Swindon and a Q1, outsourced to Gloucester RCW, the doors being the only difference.  The trailers were all rebuilt at Swindon, but retained their original doors.

 

Tomorrow's job is to finish the seating and perhaps paint the interiors, and see how the glazing sits in the cab windows after my fettling.  I won't glaze anything until the outside painting is done, and we are a little way off that yet.  I have bought some fresh Milliput, terracotta fine, to fill the toplights, terracotta because it is a different colour and will show up better against the cream background.  it all sounds like major work but actually it isn't, and if I can get a decent run at it and crack on a bit the coach could be finished except for the buffers and bell by next week.  

 

Interior colours going to be edumacated guesswork; grey floor, brown woodwork and sides, dark red upholstery, and grey floors with cream walls in the cab, vestibule, and luggage compartment.  I ought to have at least a nod at representing the saloon entrance doors from the vestibule.

 

The photo has shown up that the roof seems to overhang a bit oddly at the luggage compartment end, so I'll look into that and trim it up if necessary.

 

 

[timbowilts]

Johnster, you don’t have to buy a complete auto trailer just to get a replacement bell! Peters Spares is where I got mine for my A32/33/44 conversion.

Tim T

[The Johnster]

Thanks Tim.  I'm probably going to have to get one for the buffers anyway, though!  One of my other trailers has lost it's bell and an order to Peter's will be forthcoming.  I've bought a K's flat ended B coach kit on 'Bay (another one I have to construct an interior for, this is getting to be a habit), which got delivered this morning, and this has cast whitemetal bogie sideframes for fishbellies.  Construction is similar to the Americans that came with the A31, but this is a plastic kit with plastic bogie stretchers.  As I say, I have the Stafford Road/Shapeways 3D plastic printed fishbellies on order, but am thinking that these K's bogies, which will be heavier with the whitemetal side frames, might be more suitable for W 207 W and the Staffords can be used under the B coach.  The idea is to keep a lower centre of gravity; it probably doesn't make much difference but just feels like better engineering to me!  

 

The Staffords are a better looking thing, though, with sharper and crisper detail.  It's not a race, and the Staffords will probably have arrived before I get to mounting bogies on 207, so I can defer the decision until then.  The Staffords are, I believe, supplied to replace Lima and will need some modification whichever coach they are used on.

[Coach bogie]

If anyone would like to have a go themselves and follow Johnster's guidance, I have a box of K's autocoach bits. No reasonable offer refused. This one has two sets of ends so you can have a the original windowed guards end if required. American bogies already assembled. The only challenge is the joinining tab on one set of sides has broken off, but with a solid floor this should not be an issue. I can always solder it up for you if required. Comes with an Airfix auto roof.

 

Mike Wiltshire

[The Johnster]

Tempting, Mike, but I'll stick with what I've got for now and leave it for somebody else.  Instructional to soee the thing reduced to components, though.  As built from the kit, there is no floor and no interior detail beyond the bulkheads, and the thing looks very empty, but is not bad overall.  Mine has been epoxied together solidly and squarely, which bodes well for anyone attempting a new construct; it is a fundamentally correct to scale model that can be worked up.  Somebody going further than I'm intending would probably try to go for glazing at the correct depth (not flush).  Some detail on the cab front is cast, and would be better as separate components, but I will not be bothering too much with this beyond replacing the lamp irons with my standard Rexel no.13 staples cut to size.  Good enough is good enough; it you wanted a fine scale A31 you'd scratch it.  

 

I'm expecting my interior and cab details, along with the radically different look of a crimson liveried coach with plated toplights, to 'lift' the model to my satisfaction.  It'll certainly make an impression on Cwmdimbath among the steel bodied trailers and Collett suburbans with it's panelled body and fishbellies, and might go some way to inhibiting my constant badgering of Dapol to apply a 4mm shrink ray to their lovely 7mm diagram N.  I have photograhic evidence of no 38 at Bridgend with boards for Abergwynfi in Lewis, H.C.Casserley no less!

 

But I will of course still give Dap an occasional reminder about this; my public expects it of me...

[timbowilts]

Johnster, I’ve bought them! Now all I have to do is justify two of them in the Cynon Valley! Rule 1..........

Tim T

[The Johnster]

They’ve gone to a good home, then.  Not any less possible in the Cynon Valley than at Tondu as there were at least 4 allocated to Newport Division In ‘our’ time photographed in Lewis working in the area or at Godfrey Rd; one photo shows the cab end of Diagram N no.38, also photographed in Lewis by H.C.Casserley at Bridgend on an Abergwynfi working.  So coaches known to be at Newport also appeared in the Tondu valleys. Circumstantial enough for me!

 

Some progress on mine today; I’ve finished the seating and am ready to paint the interior.  Next job therefore is to have another go at Milliputting the toplights.  Then I can paint the interior followed by the exterior, then the numbers, then the glazing, then the no smoking labels, then the roof can go on. 

 

I’ll detail the cab before putting the front back on. Then we can have a look at the bogies, fit couplings, and final details like new buffers and a new bell. 

[timbowilts]

Another question if I may, what glue do you intend to use to fix your glazing to the body?

Tim T

[The Johnster]

Good question!  I will be glueing plastic glazing to a painted whitemetal surface.  Superglue is the obvious choice but will fog the glazing.   I have Bostik, which might be a bit messy, but might go for Liquid Glass used as glue. 

 

 

[The Johnster]

I’ve filled the toplights with Terracotta Fine Milliput, which seemed more amenable to what I wanted it to do and much better than the first attempt, which didn’t go off properly after a whole week.   Can’t do any more until this has gone off and can be sanded smooth, then I can start painting, interior first. 

 

Next move move will be to order a cab detailing set off Springside, so I can finish off the cab before the crimson livery goes on.  I have a good feeling of steady, ordered, progress with this project now that the bogie problem is resolved.