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georgeT

Helenburgh & Ruthin (Garden Project)

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Posted (edited)

Helping Mark Owen to build an O gauge railway in his garden going from the Garage to the garden shed with a double track of 50' or more, we have started the garage end and the platforms are now in place...

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Edited by georgeT
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And more pictures from today, Mark has not got time to go on line so l said l would put the project on  for him...

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That looks good Mark, good to see you have a Master Craftsman helping out here mate.

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39 minutes ago, Andrew P said:

That looks good Mark, good to see you have a Master Craftsman helping out here mate.

 

Don't know about master but we do work well together...

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Good work so far, look forward to seeing more of his progress.

cheers

Bob

 

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Posted (edited)

Cheer's Bob / Andy, Good to have you on board its a big project that we have taken on so it should be a lot of fun and hard work, we are working on the garage end (Helenburgh) first getting  all the track laid and wired up for DCC, also we have gone for less track and more scenery and a more country feel.... small engine shed and a small goods shed and the usual cattle dock and coal yard

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Edited by georgeT
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Question for Mark please, do you have a Region / Area in mind for this project mate, i.e for Locos etc? Or is it Rule 1.:yes:

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1 hour ago, georgeT said:

 

Ex-LMS on the S&D in the late 50s...

So, Jinty's, 3F's, 4F's, 7F's, 8F's, 9F's, Std 4, Std 5, Pannier, Prairie, Hymek, Cl22's, etc?

 

Very nice idea Boys.

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11 minutes ago, Andrew P said:

So, Jinty's, 3F's, 4F's, 7F's, 8F's, 9F's, Std 4, Std 5, Pannier, Prairie, Hymek, Cl22's, etc?

 

Very nice idea Boys.

 

Spot on mate, also Mark has got a patriot in BR Black 45022 'Llandudno' just itching for a run with a rake of BR Mk1s in blood & custard...

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My word it is developing rapidly. This is something to look forward to.

 

I hope Mark's attire does not become de rigueur at High Lane.  My knees would frighten the horses. :o     :D

 

Ian.

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Hello lan,     Not compulsory l am glad to say, at High lane anyway Hahahahaha 

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All hands to the pumps today as we had a major short problem with the track so we enlisted fellow club member Ian Major to assist with the problem and was sorted out shortly after, so after Helen supplied the coffee we carried on with the track laying and soon had the Dapol Sound fitted Jinty running around the station area, so all in all we had a good session, the station area has a goods shed on the platform and a cattle dock in the fore ground, the station building will be constructed next.... 

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Looking good so far Lads, I'm looking forward to seeing on my next visit to you Guys.

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You should be getting on with the baseboards outside while the sun shines, not fiddling with platforms, you can do that when its snowing.   My experience is that used outside wood warps and after a few years my outside baseboard surface is twisted horribly. I should have braced it better.  Second hand floorboards are brilliant, used on edge as strength members.  Not sure what is good for baseboard surface as I have yet to find anything really good, but like the prototype make sure the water drains away.   Just off out to fix a collapsed part of my outside railway baseboard structure myself when I receive a phone call.

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Hi David, l guess there will be many problems we will have to sort out, but this is a long term project and we are building the garage part first as it will be a layout in its own right and will venture outside when phase one is complete ?...

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Hi Boys, A friend of mine used rather LARGE timber / about 7 inches x 2 inches on BIG posts / 4 inch x 4 inch fencing posts for the outside and then covered it in Roofing felt to keep the water away, and it looked quite good as well.

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George/Mark,

 

We have one more turnout to address. It would be worthwhile to photograph the underside to show to others the problem we hit. For the benefit of those not present, the gotcha occurred on the newer PECO turnouts.  They are manufactured with a link between the closure rails, so when the closure rails were bonded to the stock rails the short was produced.  This link is separate to the wire that connects the various parts of the crossing (frog) to the outside world. The link does not exist on the older PECO turnouts hence they did not short.

 

Ian.   

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1 hour ago, Ian Major said:

George/Mark,

 

We have one more turnout to address. It would be worthwhile to photograph the underside to show to others the problem we hit. For the benefit of those not present, the gotcha occurred on the newer PECO turnouts.  They are manufactured with a link between the closure rails, so when the closure rails were bonded to the stock rails the short was produced.  This link is separate to the wire that connects the various parts of the crossing (frog) to the outside world. The link does not exist on the older PECO turnouts hence they did not short.

 

Ian.   

 

Couldn't have put it better myself lan, and thanks for the help yesterday it was much appreciated ...

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5 hours ago, Ian Major said:

George/Mark,

 

We have one more turnout to address. It would be worthwhile to photograph the underside to show to others the problem we hit. For the benefit of those not present, the gotcha occurred on the newer PECO turnouts.  They are manufactured with a link between the closure rails, so when the closure rails were bonded to the stock rails the short was produced.  This link is separate to the wire that connects the various parts of the crossing (frog) to the outside world. The link does not exist on the older PECO turnouts hence they did not short.

 

Ian.   

That sounds very much like a new Unifrog Point that needs NO alterations for DC or DCC, I have a set track one and apparently Peco are gradually going to convert ALL Points to the Unifrog style so no mods are required by the purchaser for either DC or DCC.

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Andrew,

 

Interesting point you make. With Unifrog points, does this mean that there is now no requirement to bond the stock rails to the closure rail? Bonding is the recommendation for DCC. It was this bonding plus the new link that created the short. Without the bonding added and with the link in place, the frog and both closure/switch rails are connected together. I can see situations occurring where, for example, a Dapol wagon with its back to back that varies as it moves could short the open open switch rail to its stock rail. That at the very least would confuse the frog juicer! :wacko:

 

I think I will do more research on this.

 

Ian.

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Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, Ian Major said:

Andrew,

 

Interesting point you make. With Unifrog points, does this mean that there is now no requirement to bond the stock rails to the closure rail? Bonding is the recommendation for DCC. It was this bonding plus the new link that created the short. Without the bonding added and with the link in place, the frog and both closure/switch rails are connected together. I can see situations occurring where, for example, a Dapol wagon with its back to back that varies as it moves could short the open open switch rail to its stock rail. That at the very least would confuse the frog juicer! https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/emoticons/default_wacko.png

 

I think I will do more research on this.

 

Ian.

It's pre wired at the factory so that the Closure and Stock Rails are all live, there is then a small 1/4 dead section and then the V's are live as with DCC or DC.

 

Check out the New Set Track ones.

 

Edited by Andrew P
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Posted (edited)

Interesting in deed. I have had a look at DCC Wiki on the use of PECO Unifrog points. (https://dccwiki.com/PECO_Unifrog) . It indicates that the points do not need modification for DCC but as I surmised suggests there is a risk of shorts across wheel flanges. In the entry they quote PECO, part of which I requote:-

 

"As supplied, the turnout is wired completely “live”, except for the frog tip and wing rails, and can be used straight out of the packet without any further modification (and so behaves like an Insulfrog).

 

The stock rails are wired to the closure rails at the factory, which in turn are connected to the corresponding frog rail. This means the turnout is completely live (except for the tip of the frog), no extra wiring required. If the turnout is being used as a switch to isolate a section of track then it is simple job to remove the wire that joins the centre rail and stock rail and it will work like a current Insulfrog. Peco provides a pair of pigtails to allow wiring the turnout to behave like an Electrofrog. (They have been spot welded onto the appropriate places.)"

 

This states that the closure rail and corresponding stock rail are permanently wired together. However, the points in use definitely had a  factory installed wire link between the closure rails, which makes me think these are not Unifrog points. 

 

Andrew, when we lift the last point I will photograph the underside and compare notes  with you.

 

We submitted our replies at the same time!

 

Ian. 

Edited by Ian Major

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Marc has supplied a photo of the underside of a new(ish) PECO point. I have added a red arrow to show the quite well hidden factory fitted "gotcha link" which we cut to allow the switch rails to be bonded to their respective stock rails. Note the two frog exit rails are factory bonded together.

 

Hope this is helpful.

 

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Ian.

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