Johnac1970 Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 I'm trying to upgrade 4 rakes of airfix mk2d with close coupling,New B4 bogies and shawplan windows. I'm reasonably new to modelling so don't actually know which close coupling system to use(I'm thinking of kadee and the ends), shawplan flushglaze look great,Bachmann B4 look great but I'm not sure if they are compatible with any of the close coupling systems. I've collected the coaches over the years (hence the upgrades and not splashing out on the new 2D/E coaches) . Any help/guidance greatly received and appreciated. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheesysmith Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 For bogies use the replica ones. Some of the best models of the B4/5 bogies around. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted June 21, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 21, 2019 Don't use Kadees on a close coupling unit, they are best kept locked together coach to coach using something like Hornby & Roco alternative couplers. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/312511 Kadees are fine on the ends of rakes 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonhall Posted June 22, 2019 Share Posted June 22, 2019 Ironically the Airfix B4 bogie was well regarded for a long time, and most 'modern' modellers used them to re-bogie late mk1's, which is why you see quite so many Airfix 2D's on secondhand tables without bogies. Jon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold griffgriff Posted June 22, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 22, 2019 11 hours ago, melmerby said: Don't use Kadees on a close coupling unit, they are best kept locked together coach to coach using something like Hornby & Roco alternative couplers. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/312511 Kadees are fine on the ends of rakes Ironic considering your goal but if you don’t intend to correct the oddly formed head stock then you can mount a drag box fitted Kadee directly upon the chassis through the buffer beam just under the corridor connection. You can do it if you modify the head stock but other means of close coupling may be more effective in this instance. Griff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted June 22, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 22, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, griffgriff said: Ironic considering your goal but if you don’t intend to correct the oddly formed head stock then you can mount a drag box fitted Kadee directly upon the chassis through the buffer beam just under the corridor connection. You can do it if you modify the head stock but other means of close coupling may be more effective in this instance. Griff Where does close coupling come into that? Edited June 22, 2019 by melmerby Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
naugytrax Posted June 22, 2019 Share Posted June 22, 2019 For close coupling within the rake, I'd suggest Keen Systems couplers, like https://www.keen-systems.com/Fits To.html. At the outer ends, use Kadees as Melmerby said. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Enterprisingwestern Posted June 22, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 22, 2019 4 hours ago, melmerby said: Where does close coupling come into that? I would presume that, as I have done in the past on coaching stock, correct selection of the Kadee and location of its drag box can give a quite successful close coupling system, or am I barking up the wrong tree? Mike. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
frobisher Posted June 22, 2019 Share Posted June 22, 2019 18 hours ago, melmerby said: Don't use Kadees on a close coupling unit, they are best kept locked together coach to coach using something like Hornby & Roco alternative couplers. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/312511 Kadees are fine on the ends of rakes The Bachmann EZ-Mate NEM couplings are your friend here as they have the coupling head solidly mounted rather than the Kadee arrangement, just a shame they only come in a single length (which is spot on for Bachmann MK2a/z as it turns out...). 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted June 22, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 22, 2019 47 minutes ago, Enterprisingwestern said: I would presume that, as I have done in the past on coaching stock, correct selection of the Kadee and location of its drag box can give a quite successful close coupling system, or am I barking up the wrong tree? Mike. How does it maintain an almost constant distance between the buffers on straights and curves? Close coupling mechs have a cam system so that you can have buffers touching on the straights but opening up on curves so they don't buffer lock. That's what I thought the OP was talking about. Keen Systems have been mentioned. I just use the Hornby or Bachmann ones as fitted, these do not like Kadees, I've tried them with Hornby Pullmans and other Hornby and Bachmann coaches and there is a tendency to derail as you come off a curve. Using the Hornby alternative couplings, or for closer buffing, the Roco ones (or one of each) this does not happen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold griffgriff Posted June 22, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 22, 2019 1 hour ago, Enterprisingwestern said: I would presume that, as I have done in the past on coaching stock, correct selection of the Kadee and location of its drag box can give a quite successful close coupling system, or am I barking up the wrong tree? Mike. Indeed. Griff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold griffgriff Posted June 22, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 22, 2019 ... indeed meaning you’re barking up the right tree that is....;) Griff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted June 22, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 22, 2019 I still don't get it. How is this a close coupling suystem? It isn't because if you have the buffers touching on the straight it will be off the road on the first curve. If you going to mount the Kadee high on the chassis, why not use proper buckeyes to replicate the ones fitted to BR coaches? https://www.keen-systems.com/Couplings.html Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold griffgriff Posted June 22, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 22, 2019 1 hour ago, melmerby said: I still don't get it. How is this a close coupling suystem? It isn't because if you have the buffers touching on the straight it will be off the road on the first curve. If you going to mount the Kadee high on the chassis, why not use proper buckeyes to replicate the ones fitted to BR coaches? https://www.keen-systems.com/Couplings.html Simply put.... the end of the coaches are wrong. The mid point of the buffer beams hangs out a good 5mm... the corridor connections are too long. If these issues are not corrected (I have btw so this is not the path I’ve followed) then it is perfectly possible to use Kadees to couple coaches together with the corridor ends barely touching... keen end plates will help but to be clear. It will be unprototypical 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold griffgriff Posted June 22, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 22, 2019 Poor picture I know. Sorry. I do not possess any unmodified corridor ends. This one has had about 2mm removed from its projection but you can see how pronounced the corridor connections are. Sling a drag box in and there you go. Cutting the the corridor connections back and putting the buffer beam and buffers in the correct position needs a different solution. For what it’s worth my chosen fix is to use Keen Systems components. Griff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Enterprisingwestern Posted June 23, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 23, 2019 12 hours ago, melmerby said: I still don't get it. How is this a close coupling suystem? It isn't because if you have the buffers touching on the straight it will be off the road on the first curve. If you going to mount the Kadee high on the chassis, why not use proper buckeyes to replicate the ones fitted to BR coaches? https://www.keen-systems.com/Couplings.html That's the whole point, the buffers don't touch on buckeye connected coaching stock. Mike. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted June 23, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 23, 2019 1 hour ago, Enterprisingwestern said: That's the whole point, the buffers don't touch on buckeye connected coaching stock. Mike. Mike & Griff I hadn't appreciated that the Airfix buffers were actually depicted in the retracted position, I assumed they were like the other coaches (Gresleys, Maunsells, Pullmans.) where they are in the normal position for screw couplings although using Pullman style gangways. In those cases Kadees definitely don't work properly as when you go through a reverse curve the buffers will lock (if you have anything like prototypical spacing for the coaches.), hence the close coupling units. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RANGERS Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 A pal of mine uses magnetic couplings within rakes in O gauge. They’re on flexible rubber mounts which are set at the length of the gangway connections with the buffers retracted, allows them to go round corners whilst maintaining a constant distance on straights. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
frobisher Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 17 hours ago, griffgriff said: Simply put.... the end of the coaches are wrong. The mid point of the buffer beams hangs out a good 5mm... the corridor connections are too long. If these issues are not corrected (I have btw so this is not the path I’ve followed) then it is perfectly possible to use Kadees to couple coaches together with the corridor ends barely touching... keen end plates will help but to be clear. It will be unprototypical I think the two of you are talking at cross purposes... melmerby is talking about using a close coupling mechanism, and you are talking about coupling the coaches close together which are two separate issues. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold griffgriff Posted June 23, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 23, 2019 I understand the concept. I’m using them myself. I just think, because of the geometry of the coach end, that they are unnecessary in these circumstances. Griff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
frobisher Posted June 23, 2019 Share Posted June 23, 2019 35 minutes ago, griffgriff said: I just think, because of the geometry of the coach end, that they are unnecessary in these circumstances. I'd severely doubt that an Airfix MK2D would go around R2 curves coupled on the headstocks with Kadees but it would with them mounted in a CCM. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold griffgriff Posted June 23, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 23, 2019 I’d love to have a go but I haven’t any extra long corridor connections to prove it Griff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Enterprisingwestern Posted June 23, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 23, 2019 1 hour ago, frobisher said: I'd severely doubt that an Airfix MK2D would go around R2 curves coupled on the headstocks with Kadees but it would with them mounted in a CCM. , and theres the rub, horses for courses as ever, mine only circumnavigate 36" or greater radius geometry. Mike. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted June 23, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 23, 2019 18 minutes ago, Enterprisingwestern said: , and theres the rub, horses for courses as ever, mine only circumnavigate 36" or greater radius geometry. Mike. Which also rules out Peco medium radius points and their single & double slips as they are nominally 3' radius but are more like 30" in the turn. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now