Hornby J15 - variations produced versus prototype

[Rail-Online]

Hi,

 

Hornby have done the J15 in LNER and BR liveries with the low cab and the raised one (fitted from about 1934)

However so far as I can see they have all got the later 'NER' type chimney (also fitted from about 1934).  All appear to have the safety valves fitted straight into the boiler rather than on a mounting

 

Is this a correct observation? 

 

If so this seriously limits the models to post 1934 condition (fitting of the new boilers with these safety valves was not an overnight thing and took decades to do them all).

 

I have been searching but have come up with nothing.

 

Incidentally the chimney is on a 'plug' that pushes into the smokebox -it fell out on mine! So they are perhaps thinking of doing an alternative.

 

Cheers Tony

 

p.s. Colin at Alan Gibson does the alternatives fittings in his range

[Jammy2305]

You are correct in saying Hornby's J15 has never been produced in a pre-LNER condition. It's another classic example of Hornby not catering for the pre-grouping era with non-Southern constituencies. This is particularly peculiar as they have gone to great lengths to cater for various examples; they have the ability to model the original lower cab version (although only one has been produced thus far), they have modelled both types of tender frame and tender body and they have catered for various braking options. Additionally, both the chimney and smokebox door are separately fitted features meaning Hornby could easily offer GER fittings. A separately fitted safety valve fitting could also be provided. The only major sticking point is the moulded coal guards on the tender, which did not feature in GER days. If Hornby were to cater for these rather simple changes, they'd have the option to model three additional liveries plus LNER and BR variants that carried GER fittings for longer than their classmates. I envisage that a model of preserved No.564 in GER blue would sell particularly well but sadly I doubt Hornby will ever indulge us with one!

[wainwright1]

I believe that they were also used by the ROD, so another livery option.

 

RB

[SDJR7F88]

14 hours ago, wainwright1 said:

I believe that they were also used by the ROD, so another livery option.

 

RB

They certainly did! I've re-numbered my 2 into ROD livery. Obviously, there are a few detail difference between the models and how they served, but on a whole i'm very happy with them.

[Wickham Green]

20 hours ago, jamesC37LG said:

........... It's another classic example of Hornby not catering for the pre-grouping era with non-Southern constituencies. .............

I don't think the pre-grouping Southern scene is particularly well represented either - only an 'H' and a couple of Terrier variants ....... though there's a 'T9', Adams Radial and another 'H' in preserved condition. Pre-grouping Southern rolling stock - serious, accurate models - is completely absent until the Warner brake van arrives ............. so we're not significantly better off - from Hornby - than anyone else. [ Other manufacturers' products are available and may have a greater pre-grouping Southern content.]

[Jammy2305]

7 hours ago, Wickham Green said:

I don't think the pre-grouping Southern scene is particularly well represented either - only an 'H' and a couple of Terrier variants ....... though there's a 'T9', Adams Radial and another 'H' in preserved condition. Pre-grouping Southern rolling stock - serious, accurate models - is completely absent until the Warner brake van arrives ............. so we're not significantly better off - from Hornby - than anyone else. [ Other manufacturers' products are available and may have a greater pre-grouping Southern content.]

 

Not being a Southern man, I was not aware a number of those were preserved examples (much like the NBR J36), however, when one considers livery representation (which to any lay observer would be representation all the same) then the following is observed:

 

For the Southern we have:

2 x LSWR M7s

1 x LSWR T9

2 x SECR H

1 x LSWR Radial

Countless Terriers

 

For everywhere else we have:

1 x GNR N2

1 x NBR J36

Caley No.123

Pecketts

 

I haven't included S&DJR locos as the locos modelled were of post-grouping origin and I have not included the GWR as I admit my knowledge of the GWR is not the greatest.

 

Now, as a whole, Hornby are poor at representing the pre-grouping era, especially accurate period/non-preserved examples. However, I think it's fair to say (and therefore I stand by my original point) that when they do represent a pre-1923 company/livery, it is more likely to be a Southern constituent.

 

 

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

11 hours ago, jamesC37LG said:

For everywhere else we have:

1 x GNR N2

1 x NBR J36

Caley No.123

Pecketts

You may slightly add to the Hornby 'everywhere else' list.

3 x GNR J13

2 x GNR N2

 

On that form, I would expect that if the tooling allows it - or even if it doesn't - a GNR liveried J50 might just be a possibility. (How strange, Hornby have a complete monopoly on RTR OO GNR design tank locos...)

 

Their current  'early A1' tooling could take GNR livery as 1470 or 1471, don't think they have yet ventured that.

[Wickham Green]

Sorry, I forgot the M7 - but even including that and the preserved locos the pre-grouping Southern scene is not exactly well represented by Hornby ..... though the other 'groups' are even less well represented. ( Analysis of post-grouping representation by Hornby and the products of others might show a different balance ......... but in the end we get what we get and the Wish List may have an influence on what the trade think will make them a few bucks.)

[Jammy2305]

1 hour ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

You may slightly add to the Hornby 'everywhere else' list.

3 x GNR J13

2 x GNR N2

 

On that form, I would expect that if the tooling allows it - or even if it doesn't - a GNR liveried J50 might just be a possibility. (How strange, Hornby have a complete monopoly on RTR OO GNR design tank locos...)

 

Their current  'early A1' tooling could take GNR livery as 1470 or 1471, don't think they have yet ventured that.

 

Ah, fair play, my bad! 

 

I'm hoping they'll consider GNR 1470 for a centenary release. You never know...

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

On ‎14‎/‎09‎/‎2019 at 17:42, Rail-Online said:

Hornby have done the J15 in LNER and BR liveries with the low cab and the raised one (fitted from about 1934)

However so far as I can see they have all got the later 'NER' type chimney (also fitted from about 1934).  All appear to have the safety valves fitted straight into the boiler rather than on a mounting

 

Is this a correct observation? 

 

If so this seriously limits the models to post 1934 condition

I was interested to see how this thread developed. Despite 500+ views over near a month since the OP there's a lack of calls for pre-1934 condition: and that suggests to me that Hornby have gauged their present market pretty well.

 

It is possible that an 'early version' in whatever is the most colourful possible GER livery might sell like fury when seen. But then again it might not. Bachmann's C class 0-6-0 dressed up in the fairground carousel paint job may have satisfied the demand completely for the present?

[Steamport Southport]

I like my J15. But one is enough personally and that was bought heavily discounted.

 

How does the model differ from the condition when it was originally preserved though? That might be a possibility in the future. I believe it's been altered to closer to original condition since.

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/stuart166axe/8482500637

 

 

 

Jason

 

 

[Edwardian]

On 06/10/2019 at 17:29, jamesC37LG said:

You are correct in saying Hornby's J15 has never been produced in a pre-LNER condition. It's another classic example of Hornby not catering for the pre-grouping era with non-Southern constituencies. This is particularly peculiar as they have gone to great lengths to cater for various examples; they have the ability to model the original lower cab version (although only one has been produced thus far), they have modelled both types of tender frame and tender body and they have catered for various braking options. Additionally, both the chimney and smokebox door are separately fitted features meaning Hornby could easily offer GER fittings. A separately fitted safety valve fitting could also be provided. The only major sticking point is the moulded coal guards on the tender, which did not feature in GER days. If Hornby were to cater for these rather simple changes, they'd have the option to model three additional liveries plus LNER and BR variants that carried GER fittings for longer than their classmates. I envisage that a model of preserved No.564 in GER blue would sell particularly well but sadly I doubt Hornby will ever indulge us with one!

 

I wonder, James, if you are not the man with the knowledge I seek!

 

I had heard that there was a Hornby version with the original cab profile.  I have also heard that there was a version with a different profile for the cab side-sheet cut out, resembling the 'blue goods' series.

 

As you seem to have a good knowledge of what Hornby has produced, are you in a position to identify which of the (very) many Hornby releases might have had these features.

 

I am simply looking for the nearest starting point for a back-date conversion to one of the dual-fitted 'blue goods' in Edwardian condition. 

 

EDIT: Post script, re Hornby not helping with pre-Grouping condition for non-Southern constituents, I think the position is really this: Hornby will not cater for more than one basic tooling.  They will do a tooling suite based on the latest condition. So, if the same tooling happens to accommodate both a post and pre-Grouping livery, that's OK, e.g. the SE&CR H Class. 

 

Where the prototype has been rebuilt, Hornby typically do not include the early condition option in the tooling suite. Worse, with certain locomotives, as Hornby tend to pack the internal gubbins to the rafters, where the prototype had a re-boilering at a higher pitch, the result is a model where the motor etc sit to tall to allow the modeller to back date.

 

Examples of this afflict the LSWR and GER modeller equally.  Without re-arranging the motor, you cannot build/covert to earlier condition bodies for the ex-LSW Class 700 Black Motor 0-6-0 or T9 Class 4-4-0.  The same applies to the ex-GER Claud.  Hornby also stuff the LSW when it comes to coaches; Hornby's very fine ex-LSW coaches are rebuilds and, for various reasons, cannot sensibly be converted to their LSW condition. 

 

 

Edited October 13, 2019 by Edwardian

[31A]

65445 - 'high' cab side cutouts, and oval holes in the tender frames:

 

 

65390 - 'low' cab side cut outs (compare with front of tender) and 'D' shaped holes in the tender frames:

 

 

I have added the sheet rails on the front of the tender (both engines) and ejector pipe along the boiler above the handrail on 65390, it being a vacuum brake (no Westinghouse) loco.

[Jammy2305]

On 13/10/2019 at 10:16, Edwardian said:

 

I wonder, James, if you are not the man with the knowledge I seek!

 

I had heard that there was a Hornby version with the original cab profile.  I have also heard that there was a version with a different profile for the cab side-sheet cut out, resembling the 'blue goods' series.

 

As you seem to have a good knowledge of what Hornby has produced, are you in a position to identify which of the (very) many Hornby releases might have had these features.

 

I am simply looking for the nearest starting point for a back-date conversion to one of the dual-fitted 'blue goods' in Edwardian condition. 

 

EDIT: Post script, re Hornby not helping with pre-Grouping condition for non-Southern constituents, I think the position is really this: Hornby will not cater for more than one basic tooling.  They will do a tooling suite based on the latest condition. So, if the same tooling happens to accommodate both a post and pre-Grouping livery, that's OK, e.g. the SE&CR H Class. 

 

Where the prototype has been rebuilt, Hornby typically do not include the early condition option in the tooling suite. Worse, with certain locomotives, as Hornby tend to pack the internal gubbins to the rafters, where the prototype had a re-boilering at a higher pitch, the result is a model where the motor etc sit to tall to allow the modeller to back date.

 

Examples of this afflict the LSWR and GER modeller equally.  Without re-arranging the motor, you cannot build/covert to earlier condition bodies for the ex-LSW Class 700 Black Motor 0-6-0 or T9 Class 4-4-0.  The same applies to the ex-GER Claud.  Hornby also stuff the LSW when it comes to coaches; Hornby's very fine ex-LSW coaches are rebuilds and, for various reasons, cannot sensibly be converted to their LSW condition. 

 

 

 

My apologies for not replying sooner!

 

The higher cabside cut outs were implemented from order numbers I45/S45 onwards in 1899, meaning for a dual braked loco you will require a high sided machine. Thankfully the one and only J15 that Hornby has produced with a low cab roof profile happens to be a post 1899 loco!

 

Furthermore, the tender attached to this model is one with oval holes in the frame; New GER S23 tenders built from 1892 onwards incorporated this feature, replacing the earlier D shaped holes. It also features both tender tool boxes, which was standard in GER days but often reduced to one during the LNER years.

 

The model is R3230 No.7524 in LNER black. It is an unbraked example but this provides a perfect blank canvas for back-dating and adding whatever brake components (and additional details) you require. The only feature it lacks are the fluted side rods (fitted as built from 1906 onwards) but that is a most minor detail!

 

I hope this proves useful. I'm assuming any progress with such a conversion will feature on Castle Aching (which I really must reacquaint myself with again as I imagine that, having caught up, I'm now several months behind!). If I decide to go ahead with one myself, I'll be sure to let you know.

 

- James

[stewartingram]

A1978 view of the preserved loco, before its recent retro rebuild.

 

Stewart

[Edwardian]

On 15/10/2019 at 12:25, jamesC37LG said:

 

My apologies for not replying sooner!

 

The higher cabside cut outs were implemented from order numbers I45/S45 onwards in 1899, meaning for a dual braked loco you will require a high sided machine. Thankfully the one and only J15 that Hornby has produced with a low cab roof profile happens to be a post 1899 loco!

 

Furthermore, the tender attached to this model is one with oval holes in the frame; New GER S23 tenders built from 1892 onwards incorporated this feature, replacing the earlier D shaped holes. It also features both tender tool boxes, which was standard in GER days but often reduced to one during the LNER years.

 

The model is R3230 No.7524 in LNER black. It is an unbraked example but this provides a perfect blank canvas for back-dating and adding whatever brake components (and additional details) you require. The only feature it lacks are the fluted side rods (fitted as built from 1906 onwards) but that is a most minor detail!

 

I hope this proves useful. I'm assuming any progress with such a conversion will feature on Castle Aching (which I really must reacquaint myself with again as I imagine that, having caught up, I'm now several months behind!). If I decide to go ahead with one myself, I'll be sure to let you know.

 

- James

 

Perfect, James, thank you.  That has saved me a heck of a lot of leg-work trying to identify all the various Hornby releases and work out the best fit.  Really much appreciated. 

 

A dual-fitted 'blue goods' is probably the best fit for my fictional scheme, so, yes, it would appear on Castle Aching in due course. 

 

CA is set in 1905, so I am looking at one of the 1899 locos, 640-644.  This avoids the need for fluted rods. This will be ideal for handling West Norfolk stock, which, of course, was vac-braked. 

 

However, the pictures I have seen of this series show them with Worsdell tenders, i.e. with 'D' cut outs to the frames, e.g. 7641 in early LNER condition with a 3,066 gal. Worsdell tender. RCTS (Part 5) states that 640-649, which includes the dual fitted examples in which I am interested, were paired wit 3,006 gal. tenders taken from Worsdell's G14 2-4-0s. No doubt tender exchanges took place subsequently, but in 1905 I would expect 640-644 to be running with the tenders with which they were originally paired.

 

The picture I have in as-built condition is of 643, so this is what I'd plan to represent.

 

[Jammy2305]

13 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

 

Perfect, James, thank you.  That has saved me a heck of a lot of leg-work trying to identify all the various Hornby releases and work out the best fit.  Really much appreciated. 

 

A dual-fitted 'blue goods' is probably the best fit for my fictional scheme, so, yes, it would appear on Castle Aching in due course. 

 

CA is set in 1905, so I am looking at one of the 1899 locos, 640-644.  This avoids the need for fluted rods. This will be ideal for handling West Norfolk stock, which, of course, was vac-braked. 

 

However, the pictures I have seen of this series show them with Worsdell tenders, i.e. with 'D' cut outs to the frames, e.g. 7641 in early LNER condition with a 3,066 gal. Worsdell tender. RCTS (Part 5) states that 640-649, which includes the dual fitted examples in which I am interested, were paired wit 3,006 gal. tenders taken from Worsdell's G14 2-4-0s. No doubt tender exchanges took place subsequently, but in 1905 I would expect 640-644 to be running with the tenders with which they were originally paired.

 

The picture I have in as-built condition is of 643, so this is what I'd plan to represent.

 

 

You're most welcome! My apologies (again) as I neglected the 1905 setting of CA so, yes, you are correct in requiring a loco from order X45 (Nos.640-644). A quick look back over my notes identifies the tenders as belonging to order H14, which fits with the pairing to the G14's as you mentioned. They are, however, larger tenders than their S23 counterparts; the difference in height being observed in the photo of No.643 where the main body of the tender sits higher than the bottom of the cab cut out. This leaves you with two options: Try and model a H14 tender or apply Rule 1 and claim the original H14 was swapped for an S23 as per the donor Hornby model, although I agree that, historically, this would have been unlikely in the given timescale.

[Edwardian]

1 hour ago, jamesC37LG said:

 

You're most welcome! My apologies (again) as I neglected the 1905 setting of CA so, yes, you are correct in requiring a loco from order X45 (Nos.640-644). A quick look back over my notes identifies the tenders as belonging to order H14, which fits with the pairing to the G14's as you mentioned. They are, however, larger tenders than their S23 counterparts; the difference in height being observed in the photo of No.643 where the main body of the tender sits higher than the bottom of the cab cut out. This leaves you with two options: Try and model a H14 tender or apply Rule 1 and claim the original H14 was swapped for an S23 as per the donor Hornby model, although I agree that, historically, this would have been unlikely in the given timescale.

 

Thanks again, James.

 

I think I should like to get this as right as I can. The loco will need some work after all; replacement safety valves and chimney and a dished smoke box door from the looks of things.  aggravatingly, Hornby have also left me with the job of sorting out those non-radial boiler hand rails. Sticking on a Westinghouse pumps and vac stands is the easy bit!

 

So, if I started with an earlier pattern tender, with 'D' cut outs, what do I need to do to the tender top?  I have no drawing or dimensions for the H14. 

[Jammy2305]

5 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

 

Thanks again, James.

 

I think I should like to get this as right as I can. The loco will need some work after all; replacement safety valves and chimney and a dished smoke box door from the looks of things.  aggravatingly, Hornby have also left me with the job of sorting out those non-radial boiler hand rails. Sticking on a Westinghouse pumps and vac stands is the easy bit!

 

So, if I started with an earlier pattern tender, with 'D' cut outs, what do I need to do to the tender top?  I have no drawing or dimensions for the H14. 

 

Unfortunately I do not possess drawings for a H14, however, visually they appear to share the same underframes as the S23 tenders.

The tender sides (flat aspect) for an S23 are 3'6'' in height (3'9'' with the curved lip). I apologise for how crude this next bit sounds but measuring pixel length on MS paint on both your photo of No.643 and a side profile of No.644 found on Google (link below) suggests the side of a H14 is approximately 4' in height (using the cabside cut out as a reference for a height of 3'6''). I wonder how easy it is to separate the tender body from its chassis and if, therefore, the additional height can be added to the base of the body to lift it to the correct height? Frustratingly in scale terms this is a mere 2mm difference.

 

GER No.644:

https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-ger-0-6-0-y14-locomotive-644-howden-boys-book-of-locomotives-1907-139961108.html?pv=1&stamp=2&imageid=82F79D65-BD94-4AB5-92D2-CDEE99B16F70&p=699200&n=0&orientation=0&pn=1&searchtype=0&IsFromSearch=1&srch=foo%3dbar%26st%3d0%26pn%3d1%26ps%3d100%26sortby%3d2%26resultview%3dsortbyPopular%26npgs%3d0%26qt%3dy14%26qt_raw%3dy14%26lic%3d3%26mr%3d0%26pr%3d0%26ot%3d0%26creative%3d%26ag%3d0%26hc%3d0%26pc%3d%26blackwhite%3d%26cutout%3d%26tbar%3d1%26et%3d0x000000000000000000000%26vp%3d0%26loc%3d0%26imgt%3d0%26dtfr%3d%26dtto%3d%26size%3d0xFF%26archive%3d1%26groupid%3d%26pseudoid%3d%26a%3d%26cdid%3d%26cdsrt%3d%26name%3d%26qn%3d%26apalib%3d%26apalic%3d%26lightbox%3d%26gname%3d%26gtype%3d%26xstx%3d0%26simid%3d%26saveQry%3d%26editorial%3d1%26nu%3d%26t%3d%26edoptin%3d%26customgeoip%3d%26cap%3d1%26cbstore%3d1%26vd%3d0%26lb%3d%26fi%3d2%26edrf%3d%26ispremium%3d1%26flip%3d0%26pl%3d

[Edwardian]

8 hours ago, jamesC37LG said:

 

Unfortunately I do not possess drawings for a H14, however, visually they appear to share the same underframes as the S23 tenders.

The tender sides (flat aspect) for an S23 are 3'6'' in height (3'9'' with the curved lip). I apologise for how crude this next bit sounds but measuring pixel length on MS paint on both your photo of No.643 and a side profile of No.644 found on Google (link below) suggests the side of a H14 is approximately 4' in height (using the cabside cut out as a reference for a height of 3'6''). I wonder how easy it is to separate the tender body from its chassis and if, therefore, the additional height can be added to the base of the body to lift it to the correct height? Frustratingly in scale terms this is a mere 2mm difference.

 

GER No.644:

https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-ger-0-6-0-y14-locomotive-644-howden-boys-book-of-locomotives-1907-139961108.html?pv=1&stamp=2&imageid=82F79D65-BD94-4AB5-92D2-CDEE99B16F70&p=699200&n=0&orientation=0&pn=1&searchtype=0&IsFromSearch=1&srch=foo%3dbar%26st%3d0%26pn%3d1%26ps%3d100%26sortby%3d2%26resultview%3dsortbyPopular%26npgs%3d0%26qt%3dy14%26qt_raw%3dy14%26lic%3d3%26mr%3d0%26pr%3d0%26ot%3d0%26creative%3d%26ag%3d0%26hc%3d0%26pc%3d%26blackwhite%3d%26cutout%3d%26tbar%3d1%26et%3d0x000000000000000000000%26vp%3d0%26loc%3d0%26imgt%3d0%26dtfr%3d%26dtto%3d%26size%3d0xFF%26archive%3d1%26groupid%3d%26pseudoid%3d%26a%3d%26cdid%3d%26cdsrt%3d%26name%3d%26qn%3d%26apalib%3d%26apalic%3d%26lightbox%3d%26gname%3d%26gtype%3d%26xstx%3d0%26simid%3d%26saveQry%3d%26editorial%3d1%26nu%3d%26t%3d%26edoptin%3d%26customgeoip%3d%26cap%3d1%26cbstore%3d1%26vd%3d0%26lb%3d%26fi%3d2%26edrf%3d%26ispremium%3d1%26flip%3d0%26pl%3d

 

That's again very helpful, James.

 

I can check with the GERS (though I doubt their modern drawings will cover an H14 tender) and the NRM Stratford drawings list.

 

But, your method seems pretty sound. I actually have a copy of Howden's Boys' Book of Locomotives, 1907, to which I should clearly refer more often!

 

If the top of the tender details are similar to the S23, and the lip and profile look similar, your suggestion of adding a fillet at the base might well be the answer.  

[Edwardian]

17 hours ago, jamesC37LG said:

 

Unfortunately I do not possess drawings for a H14, however, visually they appear to share the same underframes as the S23 tenders.

The tender sides (flat aspect) for an S23 are 3'6'' in height (3'9'' with the curved lip). I apologise for how crude this next bit sounds but measuring pixel length on MS paint on both your photo of No.643 and a side profile of No.644 found on Google (link below) suggests the side of a H14 is approximately 4' in height (using the cabside cut out as a reference for a height of 3'6''). I wonder how easy it is to separate the tender body from its chassis and if, therefore, the additional height can be added to the base of the body to lift it to the correct height? Frustratingly in scale terms this is a mere 2mm difference.

 

GER No.644:

https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-ger-0-6-0-y14-locomotive-644-howden-boys-book-of-locomotives-1907-139961108.html?pv=1&stamp=2&imageid=82F79D65-BD94-4AB5-92D2-CDEE99B16F70&p=699200&n=0&orientation=0&pn=1&searchtype=0&IsFromSearch=1&srch=foo%3dbar%26st%3d0%26pn%3d1%26ps%3d100%26sortby%3d2%26resultview%3dsortbyPopular%26npgs%3d0%26qt%3dy14%26qt_raw%3dy14%26lic%3d3%26mr%3d0%26pr%3d0%26ot%3d0%26creative%3d%26ag%3d0%26hc%3d0%26pc%3d%26blackwhite%3d%26cutout%3d%26tbar%3d1%26et%3d0x000000000000000000000%26vp%3d0%26loc%3d0%26imgt%3d0%26dtfr%3d%26dtto%3d%26size%3d0xFF%26archive%3d1%26groupid%3d%26pseudoid%3d%26a%3d%26cdid%3d%26cdsrt%3d%26name%3d%26qn%3d%26apalib%3d%26apalic%3d%26lightbox%3d%26gname%3d%26gtype%3d%26xstx%3d0%26simid%3d%26saveQry%3d%26editorial%3d1%26nu%3d%26t%3d%26edoptin%3d%26customgeoip%3d%26cap%3d1%26cbstore%3d1%26vd%3d0%26lb%3d%26fi%3d2%26edrf%3d%26ispremium%3d1%26flip%3d0%26pl%3d

 

Well, I've dug out the J15 I do have, in the hopes that it would have D cut outs on the tender frames; it's 65475 and it doesn't!

 

Looks like I'll need to buy two further J15s for my project.

 

Ho hum.

 

Do you happen to know which Hornby models feature the D cut out frame tenders? 

 

 

[Jammy2305]

4 hours ago, Edwardian said:

 

Well, I've dug out the J15 I do have, in the hopes that it would have D cut outs on the tender frames; it's 65475 and it doesn't!

 

Looks like I'll need to buy two further J15s for my project.

 

Ho hum.

 

Do you happen to know which Hornby models feature the D cut out frame tenders? 

 

 

 

Off the top of my head, R3416 No.65446 and R3530 No.65469 have D frames. There may be others? 

[Rail-Online]

On 22/10/2019 at 22:08, jamesC37LG said:

.......... I wonder how easy it is to separate the tender body from its chassis ...........................

 

The answer is very very easily - that is where it breaks in two.

 

Brassmasters are doing an easy chassis for conversion to EM and P4 and this includes both types of coupling rods.

 

Tony

[Colin]

A side window cab variant (as used on the Colne Valley Line) would be rather nice....

[Rail-Online]

I have been doing some more research:

 

The class were long lived and many changes came with time therefore it is important to refer to photographs. 289 of the class were built, 123 were taken over by BR in 1948.

 

The first 249 members of the class were steam brake only and all but 7 of these remained so. These usually had 3 link couplings, vacuum or Westinghouse braked examples had screw couplings. Hornby models of the unfitted locos are not in the majority, the LNER original cab version R3230 being one, as is the LNER later cab version R3380. Both have post 1892 tender frame types (not the D shape). The BR livery non vacuum braked (ie steam brake only) models all have brake piping along the footplate so these are incorrect.

Westinghouse pumps were only on passenger locos. Pipes were fitted (sometimes in casings) on the side of the footplate angle for vacuum (one side) and steam heat fitted locos (other side). These are cast into the Mazak footplate and therefore are difficult (i.e. near impossible) to remove from the Hornby model.

 

For a steam brake loco the LNER livery locos are the best start, even of you want a BR one!

Only 16 loco tenders got the late BR crest as opposed to the early ‘cycling lion’ emblem.

 

Tony