Imaginary Locomotives

[Rockalaucher101]

Great now I want to build one.

Time to keep an eye out for a cheap princess class I suppose

[BernardTPM]

I did build one from a Princess once, though as it was the early 1970s that was a Tri-ang Princess...

[Signal Box Cat]

23 hours ago, scots region said:

For those of you who use train simulator.

 

 

Magnificent! The Box Cab Cat

[Cunningham Loco & Machine Works]

Here's EMD's real design for an F unit to fit the British loading gauge.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EMD_B12

https://ngdiscussion.net/phorum/read.php?1,354747

 

[rodent279]

7 hours ago, Cunningham Loco & Machine Works said:

Here's EMD's real design for an F unit to fit the British loading gauge.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EMD_B12

https://ngdiscussion.net/phorum/read.php?1,354747

 

Kind of like an Irish GM, single ended and with a more pronounced nose.

I presume BR would have specified two cabs.

[Grizz]

Maybe a bit like this.

 

 

This DSB MY loco, now named ‘Victoria’, is shown at Fredericia depot in Denmark, in August 2019. The loco is now in Midttjyske Jernbaner livery and numbered 28. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DSB_Class_MY

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midtjyske_Jernbaner.

 

The apparent poor photo quality is due to start up clag. but it was well worth watching it. 

This is the shape that I think double cabbed F7 units look like. The MY loco is built to fit into DK or euro loading gauge but there is considerable room inside the loco, both height and width to possibly have reduced its loading gauge. I’ve been fortunate enough to cab an MY many years ago when they were all owned by DSB. Classic US inspired diesel loco, generally reliable and the window frames inside the cab are made from hard wood, possibly teak. 
 

If you compare loading gauges of Class 67 and a MY, the MY is just a little bigger all round.

 

MY width 3000mm, height 4295mm

67 width 2710mm, height 3930mm 

MY is 365 wider and 290mm taller. Might have been possible to engineer around this as there is plenty of room in the body shell. 

 

 

Edited May 7, 2021 by Grizz
Photo didn’t load

[Grizz]

So here is an MY in original DSB Red, not quite the same as Western or Warship maroon but nearly....and with a small yellow warning panel and suitable British Railways logo....if only they could have reduced the loading a bit....who knows. 

 

Edited May 7, 2021 by Grizz
Autocoectino

[PhilJ W]

1 hour ago, Grizz said:

Maybe a bit like this.

 

 

This DSB MY loco, now named ‘Victoria’, is shown at Fredericia depot in Denmark, in August 2019. The loco is now in Midttjyske Jernbaner livery and numbered 28. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DSB_Class_MY

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midtjyske_Jernbaner.

 

The apparent poor photo quality is due to start up clag. but it was well worth watching it. 

This is the shape that I think double cabbed F7 units look like. The MY loco is built to fit into DK or euro loading gauge but there is considerable room inside the loco, both height and width to possibly have reduced its loading gauge. I’ve been fortunate enough to cab an MY many years ago when they were all owned by DSB. Classic US inspired diesel loco, generally reliable and the window frames inside the cab are made from hard wood, possibly teak. 
 

If you compare loading gauges of Class 67 and a MY, the MY is just a little bigger all round.

 

MY width 3000mm, height 4295mm

67 width 2710mm, height 3930mm 

MY is 365 wider and 290mm taller. Might have been possible to engineer around this as there is plenty of room in the body shell. 

 

 

Or possibly fit it with a 'hood' style body?

[Grizz]

8 minutes ago, PhilJ W said:

Or possibly fit it with a 'hood' style body?

Mmmmm I like your thinking.....

 

So a bit like this ‘Wide Mouth Frog’ but with F7 style cabs? Or sort of Class 58 style with narrower F7 cabs.

 

[BernardTPM]

The B12 does look like a good starting point and they're the right period to be a possible for the 1955 Modernisation Plan. Right width, comfortably the right height (you could probably even leave the air horn on the roof). Very low horsepower though, barely a 'type 2'. I'm sure that could have been overcome. Pairs could have been semi-permanently coupled back to back to create a double-ended 'type 4' (2250hp).

[BernardTPM]

6 minutes ago, Grizz said:

So a bit like this ‘Wide Mouth Frog’ but with F7 style cabs? Or sort of Class 58 style with narrower F7 cabs.

Would have been more likely to look like the CIE single cabbed type in the mid/late '50s.

[PhilJ W]

6 minutes ago, BernardTPM said:

Would have been more likely to look like the CIE single cabbed type in the mid/late '50s.

The CIE quickly dropped the idea of single cabs and all subsequent orders were for double cabs.

[rodent279]

I admit I've never really understood the rationale behind single cab locos. I can understand in the case of small locos, shunters, and in the case of locos intended to be semi-permanently coupled together, but if not either of the above, surely it just makes life difficult for the operators?

Amtrak in the US obviously manages-do they have turntables, or triangles to turn locos on at the end of a trip?

[Northmoor]

23 minutes ago, rodent279 said:

I admit I've never really understood the rationale behind single cab locos. I can understand in the case of small locos, shunters, and in the case of locos intended to be semi-permanently coupled together, but if not either of the above, surely it just makes life difficult for the operators?

Amtrak in the US obviously manages-do they have turntables, or triangles to turn locos on at the end of a trip?

Usually triangles  - known as turning "Wyes" - as they often have rather more space in the USA than we do.  They are often used for turning whole trains to even out flange wear, for instance; this is a lot easier than if you have to do it one vehicle at a time.

[BernardTPM]

1 hour ago, PhilJ W said:

The CIE quickly dropped the idea of single cabs and all subsequent orders were for double cabs.

Yes, but that would have been later in the imaginary time line with BR getting theirs circa 1957. Perhaps the lesson would have been learned with the CIE buying double cabbed versions from the outset in 1961.

 

Anyway, here's a double cabbed version of the B12 for BR, SD12 as it is on A1A bogies (same as used in Australia).

 

[rodent279]

1 hour ago, BernardTPM said:

Yes, but that would have been later in the imaginary time line with BR getting theirs circa 1957. Perhaps the lesson would have been learned with the CIE buying double cabbed versions from the outset in 1961.

 

Anyway, here's a double cabbed version of the B12 for BR, SD12 as it is on A1A bogies (same as used in Australia).

 

Pretty much like an A-1-A version of a Baby Deltic-as suggested in the post a page or two back!

[simon b]

2 hours ago, BernardTPM said:

Yes, but that would have been later in the imaginary time line with BR getting theirs circa 1957. Perhaps the lesson would have been learned with the CIE buying double cabbed versions from the outset in 1961.

 

Anyway, here's a double cabbed version of the B12 for BR, SD12 as it is on A1A bogies (same as used in Australia).

 

Looking at that pic, I think we've all overlooked the obvious answer.

 

 

[BernardTPM]

Yes, buy English Elecric instead.

[BernardTPM]

23 minutes ago, rodent279 said:

Pretty much like an A-1-A version of a Baby Deltic-as suggested in the post a page or two back!

Yes, pretty inevitable really. Things might have got more interesting though when the Design Panel started to insist on making the next builds better looking...

[Grizz]

8 minutes ago, BernardTPM said:

Yes, pretty inevitable really. Things might have got more interesting though when the Design Panel started to insist on making the next builds better looking...

Aha....then using this logic, but in reverse, if we had the ‘Right Design Panel’ in place, the new Class 800s could have been built with all the latest safety and design features etc, only to the same aesthetically pleasing shape as an HST .....

 

....I’ll get my coat..

[BernardTPM]

Or even the Blue Pullman

 

though by what's been said it's the seats that need most improvement.

Edited May 7, 2021 by BernardTPM

[rodent279]

1 hour ago, simon b said:

Looking at that pic, I think we've all overlooked the obvious answer.

 

 

There is a certain "house style" to the EE Baby Deltic/37/37, NZR DF, DG & DH classes, and the Peaks and GM B12's are not dissimilar either. A GM B12 derivative for the UK loading gauge would not look out of place amongst about of the above, lined up on Toton shed.

Going the other way, if the LMS twins had two windows instead of 3, they would look very much like an F7 that shrunk in the carriage washer!

Edited May 7, 2021 by rodent279

[rodent279]

Then there's these:-

 

 

Rhodesian Railways DE2, Cape Gauge class 40 clones, though derated to 1700hp. First appeared in 1955, 20-ish tons lighter than a 40, slightly wider, but only by a few inches, though probably too wide at cantrail height. Some actually had overhauled ex-class 40 engines fitted in them in the 1980's.

Makes me wonder why BR didn't simply have a standard gauge version of these?

 

[BernardTPM]

It does make you wonder how they managed to make them the Class 40s that much heavier given how much the two classes have in common. The 40s would probably have been better without those plate frame bogies inherited from the Bullied/EE trio.

[rodent279]

50 minutes ago, BernardTPM said:

It does make you wonder how they managed to make them the Class 40s that much heavier given how much the two classes have in common. The 40s would probably have been better without those plate frame bogies inherited from the Bullied/EE trio.

I suppose a train heating boiler, fuel and water tanks would add a few tons, probably not a necessity in Zim.

Edited May 7, 2021 by rodent279