Wiring electrofrogs on end to end layout

[David G 1950]

Hello newbie here, could anyone give me some guidance on how to wire up my layout .It is dc ,have had several goes at it but to no avail.

Many thanks.

[cliff park]

The basic system is feeds to the toes of the points. So, what have you tried, and what were the problems ?

[Pete the Elaner]

I find it easier to break it up into smaller sections, although it can involve a little more wiring. Faults are easier to find, you can apply the same principles to larger layouts without any issues & it is easier to add a connection to a dead section than it is to insulate 2 sections which are shorting each other.

Since you are using Electrofrog points, always feed power from the toe end & use isolating rail joiners to the frog rails (the 2 in the middle at the heel end).

 

The rest is a matter of choice:

If the exit line is a dead end siding, you can get away with forgetting the insulator then the siding will be energised by the point, or you can choose to switch the power with a switch on a control panel.

You can choose to use the points as they are. They will then rely on contact from rail to point blade for conduct electricity. This is easier but many of us have found that  over time, this connection can become dirty. They are usually easy enough to clean but by following Peco's wiring diagram, you can get a more reliable connection from a remote switch. Many regard this as 'wiring the point for DCC' which is a phrase I hate because it is complete nonsense. It provides extra reliability.

 

My opinions:

I prefer to isolate each siding & power it from a switch. This allows me to shunt locos along a siding without throwing a point to energise it & you can see its status on the control panel. (It also makes wiring the layout identical whether you use DC or DCC).

I prefer to use switches to power frogs. Once the track has been weathered & ballasted (& after a few years), the rail/blade connection requires regular cleaning. A switch away from the point does not have the same environment to contend with. I have found Peco's PL-13 & SEEP's PM-1 unreliable so I avoid them. I found the internal switch in a tortoise much better, as is a cheap microswitch.

If you do end up with an unreliable switch, at least you don't have to lift any track to fix it.

Edited October 11, 2019 by Pete the Elaner
Updated because I think the 'correct' terms for heel & toe are backwards!

[Pete the Elaner]

Just now, cliff park said:

The basic system is feeds to the toes of the points. So, what have you tried, and what were the problems ?

Confusion point #1. What end do you regard as the toes?

Since I have 5 toes & 1 heel on each foot, surely the heel end is the one with 1 track & the toe end has 2 (or 3 for a 3-way point?).

But I am sure we agree to feed power to the end with 1 track...

[David G 1950]

Hi thanks for your interest . I get that you have to feed from to end but I am confused as to where to add insulating joiners . Do they need to go on every point?

 

.

[Neil]

Here's a diagram which should show you all you need to know.

 

 

I'd recommend that the breaks in the rails are done with insulated rail joiners rather than just leaving a gap. It would be perfectly possible to wire all the track feeds marked with the black triangles to one terminal of your controller and all those marked with a white triangle to the other. Trains would run fine but could only be isolated in sidings by throwing the points against them. Better to link all the black feeds together and put a switch in each individual white feed so that each section can be switched off individually. If you're a beginner to wiring up a layout I suggest that this is as complicated as you want to go at this stage. If you want further clarification or help, please ask.

[WIMorrison]

@Pete the Elanernormal convention is that the heel is where the 2 exits are and the toe is the other end - stick the turnout on its side and you will see that it looks like the cross-section of a foot, hence the analogy for the heel and toe.

[sharris]

Heels and toes...

brake shoes and sole-bars...

 

I'm beginning to think this railway malarkey is a load of old cobblers 

[Pete the Elaner]

11 hours ago, WIMorrison said:

@Pete the Elanernormal convention is that the heel is where the 2 exits are and the toe is the other end - stick the turnout on its side and you will see that it looks like the cross-section of a foot, hence the analogy for the heel and toe.

Fair enough, but I find that confusing because...

If you look at your own foot, the toe end is wider than the heel!

I am happy to be wrong but we must bear in mind when answering questions that this is terminology that may not be understood by those who are asking the questions.

[WIMorrison]

I first heard this analogy more than 50 years ago and a quick google search shows that it is generally, and perhaps universally, used and understood in the manner I described  

[David G 1950]

Many thanks to everyone who replied, a great help. I think were I went wrong is the placement of the insulating joiners! Once again ma.ny thanks.

[ejstubbs]

On 10/10/2019 at 08:36, Pete the Elaner said:

If you look at your own foot, the toe end is wider than the heel!

 

That's because you're looking at it from above.  Look at your (or someone else's) foot from the side and the toes are at the narrow end.

 

It might help to think of it this way: it the "toe end" of the point, not the "toes" of the point.  The latter usage might make some sense based on the plan view of a foot - but even then, there aren't many five-way turnouts in either 1:1 or model scales...

[Brian]

Hi

I'm not sure if this drawing of a typical turnout (Point) layout is of any help with UK terminology?