Layout Advice Please - N Guage or OO? 12ft X 4ft Size

[Delorean1984]

Hey everyone. I've decided to make a layout as my young daughter is really into trains and it would be something we would both enjoy. I'm a complete newbie and novice to this hobby so go easy on me ;-).

 

The space I have to work with would be s baseboard size of 12ft X 4ft. I'm thinking of going for N guage as I can get more on a board that size than say OO guage. I also don't mind going OO guage but not sure if it would be bit cramped on a board this size?

 

Anyone care to share a photo of their layouts that are similar in size to mine, both you OO and N Guage layouts in order for me to get an idea of how it would look and of course some inspiration.

 

Theme wise I'm thinking of a 90s or modern urban theme although I've been told urban theme in N Guage would take me forever although not too phased by that as it would be fairly long term project. Only other thing I thought of is urban/rural mix might work.

 

Also is sketching down rough layout on paper a good way to get layout ideas?

[Harlequin]

Hi,

 

Would it be against a wall? If so 4ft is too wide to reach across. If not, and you've got access all around, then reach is not a problem but something that size would be basically unmovable, in the middle of the room, once built - unless you build it in sections.

 

You can do a good OO layout in that size, people have done them in much smaller spaces!

 

Sketching is OK for basic ideas but layout designs live and die by the tightness of the track curves! So you probably need to draw it to scale eventually, either on paper or in the computer.

 

Edited October 31, 2019 by Harlequin

[Delorean1984]

2 hours ago, Harlequin said:

Hi,

 

Would it be against a wall? If so 4ft is too wide to reach across. If not, and you've got access all around, then reach is not a problem but something that size would be basically unmovable, in the middle of the room, once built - unless you build it in sections.

 

You can do a good OO layout in that size, people have done them in much smaller spaces!

 

Sketching is OK for basic ideas but layout designs live and die by the tightness of the track curves! So you probably need to draw it to scale eventually, either on paper or in the computer.

 

 

Yes it will be against a wall in a garage. Is there no way of being able to stretch over in order to build the layout? I suppose I could have access all round and have it pulled out during building? Is there any way or suggestions around this problem? What about having a cut out hole in the middle although I don't think that will work either. I did think about doing two 6 X 4 boards just incase I need to move it in future.

 

I feel that OO would be easier to work with but I would get more detail in N Guage.

 

Thanks for the tips on design, I've got an iMac and it seems track software isn't available for mac so probably have to draw it.

[Robert Stokes]

You wouldn't get more detail with N gauge - you get more detail with 00. I also think 00 gauge is better for a child to handle. To my eye N gauge is just too small, although others will disagree. In a way 12' by 4' is too big for N gauge. That gauge is usually employed by people who have much less space.

 

If you could stretch the with to 4' 6" or 5' then you could have an operating well in the middle of the layout about 8' long and 18" or 24" wide. This has several advantages. Trains look better when seen from the inside of a continuous loop than if viewed from the outside. You could even get an 18" wide operating well in 4' of width.

 

To make a track plan use an online tool called "Anyrail". It is easy to use and prevents mistakes than can occur with freehand designs.

 

Good luck with the project whatever you decide.

[Harlequin]

Quick suggestion:

 

12 by 4 when the hinged bit is raised. 12 by 5.5 when the hinged bit is down with 2.5 foot wide operating well.

 

[ikcdab]

I would go oo. There is just so much more available and i think it's more cost effective. I also agree that oo is better for a child to handle. That's quite a decent sized baseboard for a first train  layout. Is there anyway it can be shorter and wider...then with a hole in the middle it would be much better to run.

There are lots of track bargains to be had at shows and exhibitions, I would suggest you start with peco settrack rather than Hornby, I think it's just so much better.

It's a great hobby and there is loads of advice here, welcome on board!

[njee20]

1 hour ago, Robert Stokes said:

In a way 12' by 4' is too big for N gauge. That gauge is usually employed by people who have much less space.

This is nonsense. You get massive N gauge layouts and micro OO (or O gauge) ones. Space may be a deciding factor for some, but it needn’t be, and I’d say that’s too small for OO personally. 
 

In that space in N you can have scale length trains running through a decent landscape. In OO it’s still going to involve a lot of compression. That said, if you’re designing for your daughter then the larger size of OO may be appealing. There’s a larger second hand market in OO which keeps prices down, but there’s not a vast difference in the availability of items really. New prices are generally a bit lower for N. 
 

I’ve got an N gauge layout (bit grandiose, it’s some track on a board) of a similar size, and my nearly 3 year old son loves playing with it, has done since he was able to work it. Admittedly he prefers pushing stock to using the controller. I’m happy to share it with him as it teaches him to be gentle and respect people’s things. I still get worried if he starts waving a sound Fitted loco around mind, but I don’t think that’s gauge specific! 

[Robert Stokes]

Perhaps I should have said that 12' by 4' is too large for an N gauge starter layout but maybe njee20 would still disagree with that.

[Delorean1984]

1 hour ago, Harlequin said:

Quick suggestion:

 

12 by 4 when the hinged bit is raised. 12 by 5.5 when the hinged bit is down with 2.5 foot wide operating well.

 

Thank you, not thought of this design with hinges and hole in the middle. Do you mind me asking if the middle board with the hole in 6ft wide? Basically I'm asking is the hole dimensions 6ft by 2.5ft? Would you mind putting the dimensions on the diagram.

[Delorean1984]

39 minutes ago, njee20 said:

This is nonsense. You get massive N gauge layouts and micro OO (or O gauge) ones. Space may be a deciding factor for some, but it needn’t be, and I’d say that’s too small for OO personally. 
 

In that space in N you can have scale length trains running through a decent landscape. In OO it’s still going to involve a lot of compression. That said, if you’re designing for your daughter then the larger size of OO may be appealing. There’s a larger second hand market in OO which keeps prices down, but there’s not a vast difference in the availability of items really. New prices are generally a bit lower for N. 
 

I’ve got an N gauge layout (bit grandiose, it’s some track on a board) of a similar size, and my nearly 3 year old son loves playing with it, has done since he was able to work it. Admittedly he prefers pushing stock to using the controller. I’m happy to share it with him as it teaches him to be gentle and respect people’s things. I still get worried if he starts waving a sound Fitted loco around mind, but I don’t think that’s gauge specific! 

Ah don't confuse me, I'm only joking. How long for someone with little experience and new to hobby to do n guage layout in this size? I'm just wondering if OO is better for a beginner like me.

 

My daughter is only 2 and half so similar age to your son, she just likes watching them go round.

[Delorean1984]

1 hour ago, ikcdab said:

I would go oo. There is just so much more available and i think it's more cost effective. I also agree that oo is better for a child to handle. That's quite a decent sized baseboard for a first train  layout. Is there anyway it can be shorter and wider...then with a hole in the middle it would be much better to run.

There are lots of track bargains to be had at shows and exhibitions, I would suggest you start with peco settrack rather than Hornby, I think it's just so much better.

It's a great hobby and there is loads of advice here, welcome on board!

 

Can't really go much wider really but like you said and others a hole in middle might work if I can make it fit. Yup I'll go for Peco stuff. Hopefully will get to a show at somepoint.

 

2 hours ago, Robert Stokes said:

You wouldn't get more detail with N gauge - you get more detail with 00. I also think 00 gauge is better for a child to handle. To my eye N gauge is just too small, although others will disagree. In a way 12' by 4' is too big for N gauge. That gauge is usually employed by people who have much less space.

 

If you could stretch the with to 4' 6" or 5' then you could have an operating well in the middle of the layout about 8' long and 18" or 24" wide. This has several advantages. Trains look better when seen from the inside of a continuous loop than if viewed from the outside. You could even get an 18" wide operating well in 4' of width.

 

To make a track plan use an online tool called "Anyrail". It is easy to use and prevents mistakes than can occur with freehand designs.

 

Good luck with the project whatever you decide.

 

Is that an 8ft long hole by 18 or 24 inch? Would I not loose a lot of the board with hole this size? Might be able to go to 4ft6 or 5ft, will have a remeasure in the morning. I think there is a better second hand market for OO and better for a newbie like me.

[Delorean1984]

1 hour ago, ikcdab said:

I would go oo. There is just so much more available and i think it's more cost effective. I also agree that oo is better for a child to handle. That's quite a decent sized baseboard for a first train  layout. Is there anyway it can be shorter and wider...then with a hole in the middle it would be much better to run.

There are lots of track bargains to be had at shows and exhibitions, I would suggest you start with peco settrack rather than Hornby, I think it's just so much better.

It's a great hobby and there is loads of advice here, welcome on board!

 

Can't really go much wider really but like you said and others a hole in middle might work if I can make it fit. Yup I'll go for Peco stuff. Hopefully will get to a show at somepoint.

 

2 hours ago, Robert Stokes said:

You wouldn't get more detail with N gauge - you get more detail with 00. I also think 00 gauge is better for a child to handle. To my eye N gauge is just too small, although others will disagree. In a way 12' by 4' is too big for N gauge. That gauge is usually employed by people who have much less space.

 

If you could stretch the with to 4' 6" or 5' then you could have an operating well in the middle of the layout about 8' long and 18" or 24" wide. This has several advantages. Trains look better when seen from the inside of a continuous loop than if viewed from the outside. You could even get an 18" wide operating well in 4' of width.

 

To make a track plan use an online tool called "Anyrail". It is easy to use and prevents mistakes than can occur with freehand designs.

 

Good luck with the project whatever you decide.

 

Is that an 8ft long hole by 18 or 24 inch? Would I not loose a lot of the board with hole this size? Might be able to go to 4ft6 or 5ft, will have a remeasure in the morning. I think there is a better second hand market for OO and better for a newbie like me.

[Delorean1984]

1 hour ago, ikcdab said:

I would go oo. There is just so much more available and i think it's more cost effective. I also agree that oo is better for a child to handle. That's quite a decent sized baseboard for a first train  layout. Is there anyway it can be shorter and wider...then with a hole in the middle it would be much better to run.

There are lots of track bargains to be had at shows and exhibitions, I would suggest you start with peco settrack rather than Hornby, I think it's just so much better.

It's a great hobby and there is loads of advice here, welcome on board!

 

Can't really go much wider really but like you said and others a hole in middle might work if I can make it fit. Yup I'll go for Peco stuff. Hopefully will get to a show at somepoint.

 

2 hours ago, Robert Stokes said:

You wouldn't get more detail with N gauge - you get more detail with 00. I also think 00 gauge is better for a child to handle. To my eye N gauge is just too small, although others will disagree. In a way 12' by 4' is too big for N gauge. That gauge is usually employed by people who have much less space.

 

If you could stretch the with to 4' 6" or 5' then you could have an operating well in the middle of the layout about 8' long and 18" or 24" wide. This has several advantages. Trains look better when seen from the inside of a continuous loop than if viewed from the outside. You could even get an 18" wide operating well in 4' of width.

 

To make a track plan use an online tool called "Anyrail". It is easy to use and prevents mistakes than can occur with freehand designs.

 

Good luck with the project whatever you decide.

 

Is that an 8ft long hole by 18 or 24 inch? Would I not loose a lot of the board with hole this size? Might be able to go to 4ft6 or 5ft, will have a remeasure in the morning. I think there is a better second hand market for OO and better for a newbie like me.

[Kris]

For a younger child OO is the way to go. Neither of my children can cope well with my n gauge layouts. The older one can manage OO on his own, but the youngest still needs help. Lego trains however can be managed by both and they have great fun with them. 

[Harlequin]

49 minutes ago, Delorean1984 said:

Thank you, not thought of this design with hinges and hole in the middle. Do you mind me asking if the middle board with the hole in 6ft wide? Basically I'm asking is the hole dimensions 6ft by 2.5ft? Would you mind putting the dimensions on the diagram.

Yes, sorry I should have said that the grid squares are 305 by 305mm - i.e. 1ft square.

So the operating well is 6ft by 2.5ft - a good size and you can reach across all the boards easily.

 

[Robert Stokes]

A hole 8' long in 12' of baseboard will still leave you 24" at each end which I think you will find is plenty. Unless you are particularly large then a 24" wide operating well should be enough and the length I suggest means that you can have two or even three people in there with room to spare (although probably not to move past one another).

 

Personally I would try to avoid hinged sections (vertically or horizontally). Getting the tracks correctly aligned across a gap (and maintaining them that way) is not easy, especially for someone new to the hobby. One way to avoid it, is to make the layout high enough to duck under a permanently fixed structure. Your young daughter will have no problem with this but are you nimble enough?

 

I realise that you are just starting out but do spend time thinking about the design before cutting any wood and starting to screw it together. You only need 18" of baseboard width to make a reasonable station and the other side of the loop could be narrower if it just has tracks.

 

 

 

[Delorean1984]

Just another thought, if I went with having board while 4ft without a hole, it probably will be too wide to stretch over when building, is it possible to put wheels on the bottom of the layout legs so can pull it away from the wall or this a really bad idea?

 

Thank you everyone for advice and help. A circular/circuit layout is way I want to go and also different levels too. Is it worth going for layouts already out there in books or design my own?

[Robert Stokes]

Wheels under the layout is perfectly possible but it will have to be built much more strongly and rigidly to take the necessary movement. If you are going to do this I suggest a design something like a dining table - i.e. a structure about 10' by 3' 6" underneath with the 12' by 8' board on top. I think that you will need 8 legs.

 

Edit. I've just read your last paragraph. By all means use a published layout design if you find one that you like and it is about the right size. One important point. It is easy to take a design that is a bit too small and stretch it. However, trying to compress one which is too large can produce problems.

Edited October 31, 2019 by Robert Stokes

[njee20]

1 hour ago, Delorean1984 said:

Ah don't confuse me, I'm only joking. How long for someone with little experience and new to hobby to do n guage layout in this size? I'm just wondering if OO is better for a beginner like me.

 

My daughter is only 2 and half so similar age to your son, she just likes watching them go round.

I don’t think N is inherently easier or harder. It’s not really more fiddly, you just don’t add such small details as in OO. I think the level of involvement you want for your daughter is probably a key factor. 

 

2 hours ago, Robert Stokes said:

Perhaps I should have said that 12' by 4' is too large for an N gauge starter layout but maybe njee20 would still disagree with that.

I don’t see why it’s different to a OO gauge layout of the same size? It’s a big layout to start with, but there’s nothing inherently wrong with that, why is a OO gauge layout more manageable for a given size?

[Robert Stokes]

I suppose that I'm assuming an 00 gauge layout would be much simpler than an N gauge layout of the same size. You need to compare an N gauge layout 12' by 4' with an 00 one 24' by 8' or thereabouts. Would there not be many more points involved for a start? The N gauge one would probably have two or more stations whereas the 00 one might have a single station. Of course this does not have to be the case but who could resist keeping the N gauge one just as simple but with much longer plain track runs?

[njee20]

There might be more points, but it’s not a pre-requisite. There’s no compulsion to fill the space with track. 
 

Either could be a circle of track and nothing else. What N gauge lends itself to is having trains running through a landscape, which is what the OP talked about.

 

If it weren’t for the involvement of small children I’d suggest N, definitely, but there’s no denying that OO is easier to get to grips with (literally) than N, although I’m continually impressed by my son’s dexterity.  

[Delorean1984]

Just remeasured the space and I definitely can go to 4ft 6 wide and probably 5ft with a bit of movement in the garage.

[Delorean1984]

Also one other question I've thought of but what is general rule of thumb for height of layouts? Is it about 900mm?

[njee20]

You'll never get a consensus on that! 900mm is comparatively low, but you'll get some people saying 600mm and some saying 1500m! It depends a bit on how you want to operate it (sitting or standing), how tall you (and other users) are, and what sort of perspective you want; do you want that 'helicopter' view, or do want it more at eye level?

 

Lower makes reaching over easier, but getting underneath harder.

[Harlequin]

17 hours ago, Delorean1984 said:

A circular/circuit layout is way I want to go and also different levels too. 

Much simpler and more reliable if you avoid changing track levels.

If you do, the steepest gradient should be about 1:35 (Peco recommendation) or shallower if you can do it but that takes a lot of space (length).

With steep gradients like 1:35 you may run into issues of locos tractive effort - some locos won't be able to climb the gradient pulling a decent train.

With multiple levels you can run into access problems when locos stop or derail under another bit of track.

 

However, while keeping the track level you can vary the landscape levels to great effect, like Alex's layout above.

 

Edited November 1, 2019 by Harlequin