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Barry Ten

Kits for S&DJR coaches in 4mm

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I've been doing some searching for options for 4mm S&DJR coaches with a view to building some kits. As far as I'm aware, the main choice for bogie stock lay in the Blacksmith range, which unfortunately seems to have disappeared into the Coopercraft situation. I've never seen these kits on the second hand market, and the one time I tried to buy one at a society stall, I was told it wasn't for sale, so I presume they are scarce.

 

Might anyone know if I missing any other ranges, or individual passenger vehicles, in 4mm?

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Not particularly helpful but Jim McGeown's Pocket Money Kits range, the 4mm version of his 7mm range, used to have four six-wheeled S&DJR coaches. I've not seen them on eBay, perhaps more likely to be found on a second-hand stall at an exhibition.

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Thanks, Nick - something else to look out for, at least.

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The Slaters Midland 31 ft 5-compartment 6-wheel thirds, which, it seems, might just become available again from Slaters, are identical to the carriages built by Oldbury in 1886 (S&DJR Nos. 39-53) and Cravens in 1891 (Nos. 60-79). The Slaters Midland 31 ft luggage composite is very similar to the Highbridge-built composites Nos. 13-20 (and possibly others). The principal differences are that the Highbridge-built vehicles had a lower roof - 10 ft radius rather than 8 ft, making them 3 in lower overall, and the luggage doors on the Midland vehicles were of unequal size, the LH door being a standard 2 ft wide door and the RH one only 18 in; whereas the Highbridge-built carriages had equal-width doors of non-standard (21 in) width. The other 31 ft carriages for which the Slaters kits might prove a starting point ate the five brake thirds built by Cavens in 1891, Nos. 80-84, though unlike Midland vehicles these had duckets. Once you're into cutting and shutting, other older carriages should be possible using using the Slaters sides and other components. The 46 ft bogie carriages share panelling dimensions and, I think, compartment dimensions with the 6-wheelers, so that might also give a head start.

 

Ref. R. Garner, The Somerset & Dorset Joint Railway Locomotive and Rolling Stock Registers 1886-1930 (Somerset & Dorset Railway Trust, 2000).

 

The 46 ft bogie carriages were in this year's 00 Wishlist Poll for RTR items, which closed on Saturday, so if you didn't vote, too bad. But anyway, you say you want to build kits!

 

I had a topic recently looking at S&DJR passenger train formations c. 1890-1910:

 

 

 

 

Edited by Compound2632
Mention of 00 Wishlist Poll.
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Many thanks for that, Stephen. Yes, I'd far rather build some kits rather than indulge in wish-listery, although I suppose I'm wishing the kits were still available!

 

In addition to the options you mention, is there any useful starting point in the Ratio Midland suburban coaches, or are there far too many points of difference?

 

Might I ask if the Garner publication you mention contains drawings?

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Just now, Barry Ten said:

Many thanks for that, Stephen. Yes, I'd far rather build some kits rather than indulge in wish-listery, although I suppose I'm wishing the kits were still available!

 

In addition to the options you mention, is there any useful starting point in the Ratio Midland suburban coaches, or are there far too many points of difference?

 

Might I ask if the Garner publication you mention contains drawings?

 

The Ratio suburbans have the style of panelling introduced to the Midland by David Bain from the North Eastern Railway. This style has deeper waist panels than on the Clayton Midland and S&DJR Highbridge carriages, which to my possibly over-scrupulous eye is a too evident difference. Also, the compartment dimensions are different. 

 

The Garner book doesn't have drawings but plenty of photos - major dimensions such as length being known, pretty well everything will fall into place by reference to drawings of the equivalent Midland carriages.

 

Garner has a photo of 31 ft brake third No. 80 along with some older carriages. Another good book for carriage photos is C. Maggs, Highbridge in its Heyday (Oakwood Press, 1986). This has photos of Oldbury 31 ft 5-compt third No. 52 and Highbridge-built 31 ft luggage composite No. 20, again along with a variety of other carriages - the 30 ft low arc roof composites Nos. 25 (Garner) and 30 (Maggs) could also possibly be cobbled together from Slaters parts. Also very prevalent in photos of trains are the 30 ft luggage brakes - harder from Slaters parts, as those don't have much brake end panelling, but the Ratio GW 4-wheelers or even the Triang clerestories could well provide panelling that is close enough - @phil_sutters will I'm sure be willing to post examples of stock built by that route.

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As has been stated, it depends how pernickety you are, but Branchlines do Midland BT, T, LugC and Lav C  33'6" six wheelers, plus a number of 45' and 48' carriages which have make use of Ratio components plus etches

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25 minutes ago, webbcompound said:

As has been stated, it depends how pernickety you are, but Branchlines do Midland BT, T, LugC and Lav C  33'6" six wheelers, plus a number of 45' and 48' carriages which have make use of Ratio components plus etches

 

The Branchline kits are all square-panelled clerestory carriages of 1898-1902, so not at all related to the S&DJR stock. However, some of these clerestory carriages did run on the S&DJR as through carriages from the Midland.

 

There are a number of etched kits for the Midland arc-roofed 6-wheelers and 43 ft/45 ft arc-roofed bogie carriages - 51L amongst others - but apart from kits for the D493 5-compt third, none are dead ringers for S&DJR carriages and being etched, are, I should think, rather harder to adapt than the Slaters plastic kits. 

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1 hour ago, Compound2632 said:

or even the Triang clerestories could well provide panelling that is close enough - @phil_sutters will I'm sure be willing to post examples of stock built by that route.

I have two albums on this topic - firstly a number of official Derby Mechanical Engineer's photos, that my Dad bought for me in the 1960s. That album is at 

The second is one that has an assortment of photos of my Dad's and my modelling efforts in the 1950s and 60s.

There is also an album in the photo-sharing website, ipernity, which I also use. That has a mixture of 1960s and recent models. Apart from the fact that I was very lazy about the chassis of my vehicles back then, the major flaw with using Triang clerestories was the big GWR 'G' shaped grab handles. I never got round to replacing them with the elongated 'S' shaped S&DJR ones. 

http://www.ipernity.com/doc/philsutters/album/512733

Edited by phil_sutters
To add the ipernity link
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12 hours ago, billbedford said:

Would six-wheelers be of interest? 

 

Very much so, Bill.

 

Thanks for the responses, all - most illuminating.

 

My wife has has major surgery today so I'm just back from the hospital. I spent most of the day reading Jenkinson's book on carriage building.

 

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21 hours ago, phil_sutters said:

I have two albums on this topic - firstly a number of official Derby Mechanical Engineer's photos, that my Dad bought for me in the 1960s. That album is at 

The second is one that has an assortment of photos of my Dad's and my modelling efforts in the 1950s and 60s.

There is also an album in the photo-sharing website, ipernity, which I also use. That has a mixture of 1960s and recent models. Apart from the fact that I was very lazy about the chassis of my vehicles back then, the major flaw with using Triang clerestories was the big GWR 'G' shaped grab handles. I never got round to replacing them with the elongated 'S' shaped S&DJR ones. 

http://www.ipernity.com/doc/philsutters/album/512733

 

Thanks. Phil. I had come across your fantastic albums and modelling doing my Googling, and bookmarked them. 

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I have a search on eBay for '6 wheel coach' and another for 'Slaters' and the 4mm Claytons turn up regularly.

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2 hours ago, ChrisN said:

I have a search on eBay for '6 wheel coach' and another for 'Slaters' and the 4mm Claytons turn up regularly.

Class 17 diesels?

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Another RMwebber has very kindly helped me obtain one of the Blacksmith kits, so onward and upward! I intend to order some of Bill's examples as well, and will set up an alert for the Slaters coaches.

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