richscylla Posted November 16, 2019 Share Posted November 16, 2019 Hi there, I was wondering if anyone can identify the wagon types in the train at @2:20 in this video? I'm thinking it's as follows - but certainly things I don't recognise: Class 37, Class37, Silver Bullet (Does this have a TOPS code), VDA (x3), Silver Bullet, PCA, ????, Silver Bullet, ????, PCA (x4) Any help would be great. Thanks, Rich 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium njee20 Posted November 16, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 16, 2019 Silver bullets are ICAs. Can’t help on the others. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flood Posted November 16, 2019 Share Posted November 16, 2019 (edited) I reckon: Class 37, Class37, Silver Bullet, Hbfis VGA (x3), Silver Bullet, Oil TTA?, Slurry TTA, Silver Bullet, ICB, PCA (x4) Hbfis Similar to: https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/germanvan/h25E44A37#h25e44a37 Slurry TTA (don't know how long these lasted but certainly something similar) https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/apcmswanscombe/h3AC402B5#h3ac402b5 ICB https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/paulbartlettsrailwaywagonphotographs/hbde1cb83#hbde1cb83 Edited November 16, 2019 by Flood Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
richscylla Posted November 16, 2019 Author Share Posted November 16, 2019 Thanks Flood! Now I need to see if any of them are available as models/kits/conversion parts!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Martin Posted November 16, 2019 Share Posted November 16, 2019 Aren't the vans just VGAs? Most ferry vans have truss underframes and handwheel brakes. The ones in the film have fishbelly underframes and look to have a stubby little handbrake lever near the middle of the wagon. To me, that says VGA, as does the architecture of the wagon end immediately below the edge of the central portion of the roof. VGAs were standard BR types (the last BR covered vans, based on continental designs) and are available RTR in OO and N. Jim 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted November 16, 2019 Share Posted November 16, 2019 I suspect that it's a Cornwall- Mossend or vice-versa via ADJ. Those cement V-tanks appear to be the very early ones with leaf springs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flood Posted November 16, 2019 Share Posted November 16, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Jim Martin said: Aren't the vans just VGAs? Most ferry vans have truss underframes and handwheel brakes. The ones in the film have fishbelly underframes and look to have a stubby little handbrake lever near the middle of the wagon. To me, that says VGA, as does the architecture of the wagon end immediately below the edge of the central portion of the roof. VGAs were standard BR types (the last BR covered vans, based on continental designs) and are available RTR in OO and N. Jim Good spot. I thought about VGAs but then seemed to convince myself otherwise. Edited November 16, 2019 by Flood Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Davexoc Posted November 16, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 16, 2019 The last 4 are the same or similar to the one after the TTA, another TTA variation, possibly slurry or chemicals, but definitely not a PCA, 'V' or otherwise. Don't know of any PCAs with centrally mounted ladders, and Vs would have 2 filler hatches. PCAs also didn't have buffer over-ride protection, which these appear to have, so I'm leaning towards chemicals of some sort.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold griffgriff Posted November 16, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 16, 2019 BTW.... there’s not much ‘cement’ in that train unless it’s bagged in the vans. Griff 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Pilotman Posted November 16, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 16, 2019 (edited) This looks very much like a predominately Cornish china clay train. I think the last four wagons are either the china clay slurry TTAs as Flood mentioned above or perhaps TUAs (which had buffer override protection), used for the same traffic. Ahead of them is, I think, a “Crosfield” TCA bogie slurry tanker. Between the second and third ICAs are, in my opinion, a bog standard oil TTA and another slurry TTA/TUA like the final four. So that would make the consist: ICA, VGA x 3, ICA, TTA, slurry TTA or TUA, ICA, TCA, slurry TTA or TUA x 4. It was not uncommon for a train to have these three different types of slurry tanker in the consist, and for wagons of the same type not to be coupled together. Here is a photo from Flickr by Huw Millington of a TUA: Edited November 17, 2019 by Western Aviator 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
richscylla Posted November 16, 2019 Author Share Posted November 16, 2019 Thanks for everyone's feedback! Seems I got a little confused between Cement and China Clay. I know ICA, TTA, VGAs are all available RTR in 00. I just need to look into Slurry TTA/TUA and TCA options to model this train! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted November 16, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 16, 2019 You can't make concrete out of china clay (not good concrete, anyway) and you can't make pottery (not good pottery, anyway) out of cement... 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Pilotman Posted November 17, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 17, 2019 (edited) 18 hours ago, richscylla said: Thanks for everyone's feedback! Seems I got a little confused between Cement and China Clay. I know ICA, TTA, VGAs are all available RTR in 00. I just need to look into Slurry TTA/TUA and TCA options to model this train! I don’t know what is/was available in OO but as there were only 5 TCAs built, I would imagine an RTR version is very unlikely. Here's a picture by Stuart Riley on Flickr of some (clean) scratch-built wagons that look very good. Edited November 17, 2019 by Western Aviator 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt-b Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 The 3 VGAs heading down to Cornwall to Friztgerald lighting company maybe? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 12 hours ago, The Johnster said: You can't make concrete out of china clay (not good concrete, anyway) and you can't make pottery (not good pottery, anyway) out of cement... Though most (possibly all) the china clay in that train would never see the inside of a pot-bank; it's destined to be filler on paper and other uses. Regarding drawings for 'oddball' slurry tanks; Len Vass did some articles in Railway Modeller, about a lifetime ago. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElectroSoldier Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 Why is it all split up like that? I mean why are all the china clay wagons not together? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 This is the TCA https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/crosfieldchinaclaytca Paul 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted November 17, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 17, 2019 5 hours ago, Fat Controller said: Though most (possibly all) the china clay in that train would never see the inside of a pot-bank; it's destined to be filler on paper and other uses. Regarding drawings for 'oddball' slurry tanks; Len Vass did some articles in Railway Modeller, about a lifetime ago. Agreed; the uses of china clay are legion, including the bulk of the contents of your toothpaste tube... China clay or kaolinite forms from weathered silica rich rocks, and in the UK is associated with granite outcrops. Cement is finely powdered crushed limestone, and cement works are usually found in areas where there are limestone quarries. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 2 hours ago, ElectroSoldier said: Why is it all split up like that? I mean why are all the china clay wagons not together? Different grades and types of china clay to and from different locations; the idea being to pick up and set down traffic with the least number of moves. The train will make traffic stops at (as a minimum) ADJ, Warrington, Carlisle and Mossend. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 2 minutes ago, The Johnster said: Agreed; the uses of china clay are legion, including the bulk of the contents of your toothpaste tube... China clay or kaolinite forms from weathered silica rich rocks, and in the UK is associated with granite outcrops. Cement is finely powdered crushed limestone, and cement works are usually found in areas where there are limestone quarries. See Paul Bartlett's photo above ; destined for Crosfield's plant at Warrington this will form the basis of scouring powder (Ajax or Vim) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flood Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Fat Controller said: See Paul Bartlett's photo above ; destined for Crosfield's plant at Warrington this will form the basis of scouring powder (Ajax or Vim) They had passed to being on hire to ECC by 1988 so for a video taken in 1998 they were not necessarily destined for a Crossfields plant. They were certainly being used for slurry workings to Port Elphinstone near Inverurie in 1988 but that had closed to rail traffic by 1992. Edited November 17, 2019 by Flood Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Davexoc Posted November 17, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 17, 2019 23 hours ago, Western Aviator said: This looks very much like a predominately Cornish china clay train. I think the last four wagons are either the china clay slurry TTAs as Flood mentioned above or perhaps TUAs (which had buffer override protection), used for the same traffic. Ahead of them is, I think, a “Crosfield” TCA bogie slurry tanker. Between the second and third ICAs are, in my opinion, a bog standard oil TTA and another slurry TTA/TUA like the final four. So that would make the consist: ICA, VGA x 3, ICA, TTA, slurry TTA or TUA, ICA, TCA, slurry TTA or TUA x 4. It was not uncommon for a train to have these three different types of slurry tanker in the consist, and for wagons of the same type not to be coupled together. Here is a photo from Flickr by Huw Millington of a TUA: Not TUAs as those in the video have leaf springs. More likely repurposed ex-Caustic Soda tanks, TTA to diagram TT072F. Like these from 53A... 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Pilotman Posted November 17, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 17, 2019 I think you’re right, Dave; the suspension gives it away. Coincidentally, I recently came across this picture of both types together: https://www.flickr.com/photos/lickeybanker/11295956195/in/photolist-fj5y7B-idbJer-iYq76c-iYq75R Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeithMacdonald Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 On 16/11/2019 at 23:06, The Johnster said: You can't make concrete out of china clay (not good concrete, anyway) and you can't make pottery (not good pottery, anyway) out of cement... Agreed about cement pottery. At least, my wife wouldn't want it on the table. But funnily enough, just been reading an article on geopolymer concretes that do include kaolin (china clay) https://chiefio.wordpress.com/2019/11/07/diy-pyramid-blocks-tiawanaku-stone-geopolymer/ This is the same kind of geopolymer concrete that at least some of the blocks in the Egyptian pyramids are said to be made of (with a quite convincing case). If anyone is interested in the recipe, here's some they prepared earlier: https://www.geopolymer.org/archaeology/pyramids/pyramids-3-the-formula-the-invention-of-stone/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted November 21, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 21, 2019 Whatever they made the pyramids out of, it was a **** of a lot of bother to go to just to sharpen a razor blade... Somebody in Egypt at about that time, a person now long forgotten but one of my greatest heroes, invented beer, and the gangs who built the pointy things were partially paid in it. Whoever this hero was, kudos to him/her. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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