Starting a Dublo Collection

[Nearholmer]

It might be worth buying a unifrog point and looking very closely at it, because I think that the dropper-wire from the frog also livens the wing rail and the static part of the switch-rail, so that it you remove it completely, you might get what you need.

 

i can’t check for you, because mine are pinned down now, but I do know that I had to do a fair bit of re-bonding above the baseboard to get all the rails back in circuit when one of the frog droppers fell off.

[2996 Victor]

Well, I succumbed!

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And, do you know what, for all its faults when viewed alongside today's offerings, I absolutely love it. It's quite charming. It seems to have the Gaiety chassis, and its two rail rather than three, so it will need modifying when the time comes. But it really makes me smile!

 

I've also added to my wagon collection. Three of these:

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and also a Weltrol and two tank wagons, a Royal Daylight and a Power Petrol.

 

I'm again pleased to report that most are in excellent condition, so very happy once again. Sadly, two brake vans are not so good - I'm not sure why I bid, to be honest - one of those late night occurrences that you regret.....

 

Cheers,

 

Mark

[Nearholmer]

My impression from a light dipping of a toe in the water at the 2-rail end of HD, is that there is a great deal of perfectly usable stuff out there at pretty reasonable prices, even from dealers. 

 

Things only seem to get crazy when it comes to genuinely scarce items, or if you get fixated on absolutely factory-fresh in pristine boxes, or if you buy from one or two particular dealers (one of whom also sets laughably high prices in 0 gauge, so I'm wise to him). The biggest danger seems to be bagging too much, by bidding low on multi-item lots, based on the one thing you want, then unexpectedly winning.

[Il Grifone]

The first examples of the mineral wagon have the number and tare weight transfers on the wrong ends. Obviously, I got one of the first ones released....

 

51 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

 

 omis

The biggest danger seems to be bagging too much, by bidding low on multi-item lots, based on the one thing you want, then unexpectedly winning.

 

Danger?   That's my favourite trick....

[hayfield]

14 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

My impression from a light dipping of a toe in the water at the 2-rail end of HD, is that there is a great deal of perfectly usable stuff out there at pretty reasonable prices, even from dealers. 

 

Things only seem to get crazy when it comes to genuinely scarce items, or if you get fixated on absolutely factory-fresh in pristine boxes, or if you buy from one or two particular dealers (one of whom also sets laughably high prices in 0 gauge, so I'm wise to him). The biggest danger seems to be bagging too much, by bidding low on multi-item lots, based on the one thing you want, then unexpectedly winning.

 

13 hours ago, Il Grifone said:

The first examples of the mineral wagon have the number and tare weight transfers on the wrong ends. Obviously, I got one of the first ones released....

 

 

Danger?   That's my favourite trick....

 

I can own up to also enjoying bagging lots of items for a deceny if not cheap price, then reselling the unwanted items which makes the items you wanted even cheaper

[Nearholmer]

One thing that has intrigued me as I research 1963 from a toy train perspective is this advert from Hattons, which appears repeatedly with the different locos illustrated.

 

I’m assuming that the nominal 57xx is a Gaeity casting, but what about the other two classes?

[2996 Victor]

There was a Gaiety 94xx body on eBay recently - difficult to say how accurate it was, but like the 57xx it certainly looked the part! I was quite tempted.....

[BernardTPM]

3 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

I’m assuming that the nominal 57xx is a Gaeity casting, but what about the other two classes?

Body kits by Wills and Ks respectively? Maybe the 94xx bodies were Farish.

[Il Grifone]

It looks like they were flogging the complete Farish 94xx. It was a current model in 1963 and the price seems about right. The price for the 97xx would include throwing together assembling the kit.

 

Despite the description, the illustrated pannier is a Gaiety body on a Tri-ang chassis fitted with Trix couplings.

 

The Farish 94xx is better than the Lima version, but has bunker steps on both sides. I think it shares a chassis with the Prairie tank, but with smaller wheels. One I have runs exceptionally smoothly. Check carefully before purchase though, as I saw one on sale suffering badly from zinc pest.

Edited February 11, 2020 by Il Grifone

[Nearholmer]

All possibilities, I suppose. White metal kits weren’t strictly ‘die cast’ though, were they? 

 

PS: when did Farish introduce the 94xx and the newer version of the Prairie? I thought it was a bit latter than 1963.

 

 

Edited February 11, 2020 by Nearholmer

[Il Grifone]

I couldn't find anything definite on the 'net apart from this:

Please ignore - see below.

 

 

 

 

 

   .

Edited February 11, 2020 by Il Grifone

[Il Grifone]

I don't know what happened there - it all jumped sideways and froze up? I'll try again.

 

I couldn't find anything definite on the 'net apart from this: https://www.brightontoymuseum.co.uk/index/Category:Graham_Farish_00_gauge

 

I think it was 1961, but the above link has an advertisement from 1962 for the 'new' compartment coaches, which also shows both the 94xx pannier and 81xx prairie along with the reintroduced Pullman cars and the first series of plastic wagons.

 

 

[Nearholmer]

Those pictures are all from the 1964 catalogue aren't they?

[Il Grifone]

Yes I tried to be too clever and the link went wrong  losing the original advert which actually shows the Formoway track.

This should work:

 

https://www.brightontoymuseum.co.uk/index/Category:Graham_Farish#/media/File:Formoway_Flexible_Track,_Graham_Farish_(RM_1962-12).jpg

[sagaguy]

In the early 1960s, I bought a G F handbook. It contained Wonderful short story about two old gentlemen who struck up an acquaintance at an exhibition of  a layout leading to a friendship. The book was sadly lost but  I can't remember which issue it was. 

 

           Ray. 

[hayfield]

11 hours ago, Il Grifone said:

I don't know what happened there - it all jumped sideways and froze up? I'll try again.

 

I couldn't find anything definite on the 'net apart from this: https://www.brightontoymuseum.co.uk/index/Category:Graham_Farish_00_gauge

 

I think it was 1961, but the above link has an advertisement from 1962 for the 'new' compartment coaches, which also shows both the 94xx pannier and 81xx prairie along with the reintroduced Pullman cars and the first series of plastic wagons.

 

 

 

 

But the Graham Farish loco had a chassis already !!

[Il Grifone]

Exactly, the reissued Prairie body was slightly revised to take the new chassis. (Mine has an original body on the later chassis!*). The Farish pannier came with a chassis so there would be little point in fitting a Dublo or Tri-ang one (unless possibly they had a stock to clear?). That both versions are listed  at the same price suggests that they are the same, as the Gaiety pannier with the Dublo chassis is 5/- more than the Tri-ang version (about the difference in price for the two models (36/- and 33/6 IIRC).

 

* I managed to find a pest free example     - the required mods are still to complete....

[Nearholmer]

You can see now why the ads intrigued me.

 

Possibly the 94xx bodies were bought-in from Farish ready-finished, explaining the price-step up from the 57xx, with the further step-up to the 97xx being due to building a w/m kit.

 

(Victor - I fear I've crashed this whole subject into the middle of your thread. Sorry!)

 

Kevin

[2996 Victor]

2 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

You can see now why the ads intrigued me.

 

Possibly the 94xx bodies were bought-in from Farish ready-finished, explaining the price-step up from the 57xx, with the further step-up to the 97xx being due to building a w/m kit.

 

(Victor - I fear I've crashed this whole subject into the middle of your thread. Sorry!)

 

Kevin

 

No worries, Kevin! Its all fascinating stuff, so please do keep it coming!

 

Kindest regards,

 

Mark

[Nearholmer]

This should amaze others as it did me: you can still, it would seem, buy a Gaeity Pannier, or what looks like an improved version of it, new http://www.jodelmodels.co.uk/Series3/tabid/2939/language/en-GB/Default.aspx

 

The price is a bit ‘interesting’, as I have to say are a lot of prices for items aimed at the very hardest-core of Wrenn enthusiasts.

 

 

Edited February 12, 2020 by Nearholmer

[Wolseley]

11 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

This should amaze others as it did me: you can still, it would seem, buy a Gaeity Pannier, or what looks like an improved version of it, new http://www.jodelmodels.co.uk/Series3/tabid/2939/language/en-GB/Default.aspx

 

The price is a bit ‘interesting’, as I have to say are a lot of prices for items aimed at the very hardest-core of Wrenn enthusiasts.

 

 

 

It would be much cheaper to buy a Gaiety Pannier, change the safety valve cover and repaint the loco.  Some of the wagons, while not cheap, are not ridiculously highly priced (I rather like some of the tank wagons) although he does seem to have a bit of trouble putting transfers on straight.

[Il Grifone]

£255! For something that's worth a bit more than the postage!

 

The Dublo R1 chassis is the best part of the deal....

 

Or you can have a cut-down Tri-ang saddle tank for the same price!

 

I suppose etched plates (worth more than the body) sorting out the whistle (should be two) and safety valve casing is worth something, but....

 

'Worth' is relative of course! (does not necessarily equal 'cost').

[Nearholmer]

1 hour ago, Wolseley said:

I rather like some of the tank wagons

 

The white milk tanker could actually be very good, but the transfers are too far up the barrel, which sort of spoils it.

 

I'm a sucker for coarse-scale milk tankers, four and six wheel, have far too many in 0, and might even splash out for the 'Hornby 100' set of 'inspired by tinplate' wagons in 00 that contains a tribute to the 0 version, but I'm afraid all this particular one has done is put ideas in my head about doing my own.

 

There is definitely a market for all these "in the style of" items ready-made, though, even at the prices charged ...... for the man who has everything from every HD or Wrenn catalogue already, and lacks the time, skill or confidence to have a bash themselves.

 

Is the guy actually overcharging for the Pannier by a huge amount, though? If he is making a living out of it, to simply equal national average wage (c£34k/year) he would need to price his own time at c£20/hr, has materials/components to obtain, has business overheads, and has to charge VAT. Say 4hrs/loco when batch building, £15 for chassis, £20 for the body casting (which I think is a new master made from an old model, cast in pewter), small consumables at 5%, 20% overheads for premises, tools etc, 20% VAT = c£167. And that's without factoring-in time spent on marketing (hanging about at HRCA meetings schmoozing), and I may have underdone material costs. And, bear in mind that making a living isnt all about the cost of making and selling them, its about how many you can sell in a week. If it were an easy way to pay the gas bill, we'd all be at it!

 

It could be that what this really tells us is that small batch production of anything specialist has to result in high prices, because it is grossly inefficient compared with mass production.

Edited February 13, 2020 by Nearholmer

[hayfield]

1 hour ago, Il Grifone said:

£255! For something that's worth a bit more than the postage!

 

The Dublo R1 chassis is the best part of the deal....

 

Or you can have a cut-down Tri-ang saddle tank for the same price!

 

I suppose etched plates (worth more than the body) sorting out the whistle (should be two) and safety valve casing is worth something, but....

 

'Worth' is relative of course! (does not necessarily equal 'cost').

 

 

It seems there is a bit of interest in these tank locos, over the years I have acquired a couple (one on purpose not knowing how bad it was, the other came in a lot with other things. Still I have no need for either of these, I was going to put this on eBay and see how it faired. If anyone is interested I am happy to let them go

 

 

This will cost me £4 to post and pack, any sensible offers over £4 accepted. Loco untested and comes with an old Triang Jinty chassis with solid wheels, easy to either repair/replace. The chassis works poorly when wires are attached, I imagine all it needs is a good clean and oil 

 

This second one is a lot better still has a Triang chassis but old style Romford wheels

 

The chassis is very lively and well converted, the only downer being the centre wheels have had their flanges ground nearly flat. Again £4 P&P plus any reasonable offers, happy to either let the body go on its won (I will recycle the chassis parts) or complete. The Romford wheels are 1 set of Mazac non insulated and one set with nickle tyred insulated wheels (this is the one that cost me more, at a push I may have a couple of replacement wheels. Again £4 P&P plus a little bit for the body or a bit more with the chassis

 

Both were going on eBay but happier if they find a decent home. I will make a decision on Sunday, just to give all a fair chance

[Il Grifone]

The latest edition to my collection is here;

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=eastnor+castle+7004&tbm=isch&ved=2ahUKEwjS-qjr_NDnAhVaIFAKHZkgB40Q2-cCegQIABAA&oq=eastnor+castle+7004&gs_l=img.12...256914.260571..263416...0.0..0.188.1152.0j8......0....1..gws-wiz-img.cKUSyrokR5k&ei=W4lGXpLhJdrAwAKZwZzoCA&bih=666&biw=1303&client=firefox-b-d

 

In the third picture she is seen new outside Binns Road Swindon works with a Gaiety pannier in the background.

Built (as often with my acquisitions) from bits, she is a Bristol Castle body rescued from a scrap bin at a toy fair for £1. An earlier owner carer had removed the paint and various details, presumably with the intention of converting her into something else (a Star?) including the chimney and safety valve casing.

A chassis came up on EBay (on arrival it turned out to be from a Ludlow Castle!  ) and I had a tender in stock. Plates for 7004 on eBay clinched the choice of name/number, which is lucky as she has the Collett tender as per Dublo. At present she has a Star chimney (from stock), but I am undecided whether to give her a double chimney - probably eBay or a toy fair will decide on this too! The chassis lacked a motor, but ringfield motors cost nearly as much as a complete loco on eBay, so an alternative was needed (I never did like the cab full of motor anyway). An X.04 was the obvious choice, but of course the gears don't match. Then I found a Dublo Deltic/Co-Bo layshaft on eBay which solved that - fit one of the gears to the X.04 and then devise a suitable mount for the motor. Now she has had a coat of Humbrol 104 and decorates a shelf for now. Do I make a drawbar or buy* a Dublo one and use the complete Wrenn tender chassis I have or the mangled Dublo one**?

 

* The word 'buy' is not Grifone friendly!

** The original chassis for the body but missing  its wheels due to a conversion to scale many years ago.

 

Edited February 14, 2020 by Il Grifone