Why So Few BR 06 locomotives ?

[sncf231e]

6 hours ago, Vinedusk said:

With regard to "only two ever made" - the S2/6 was only ever a single loco.  Brawa got it out in several liveries before Marklin/Trix  did the same thing. 

Fulgurex did it much earlier (1969) in H0 (and later also in 0 gauge and 1 gauge (by Aster)):

 

 

Regards

Fred

[maico]

Modellbau-wiki list of the S2/6 RTR models

http://www.modellbau-wiki.de/wiki/BR_15

[maico]

14 hours ago, Vinedusk said:

 

I'm also not convinced that the Marklin and Brawa S2/6 are produced by different manufacturers, either.

 

 

 

Looking at the parts pdf. should show if that is true. Here's the Trix version

 

https://www.maerklin.de/service/produktservice/listengenerator.php?brand=2&artikelnummer=22966&lang=1

 

 

Edited January 31, 2020 by maico

[maico]

Another rare wartime loco was the D 311 diesel electric. Four where built for the Wehrmacht for use with the super heavy Gustav and Dora railguns. Marklin-Trix make it in large 1 gauge https://www.maerklinshop.de/en/maerklin/gauge-1/locomotives/diesel-locomotives/56796/d-311.01-a/b-diesel-locomotive

 

Roco make it in N gauge in both wartime green and post-war wine red. Rivarossi, Lima and Marklin-Trix in Ho.

On the Eastern Front I think a couple were painted Army gray but not in Camo like the Rivarossi

 

 

 

Edited February 24, 2020 by maico

[Sir Madog]

On 23/01/2020 at 19:58, Andy Hayter said:

There remains something of a guilt conscience even in those born well after the war. 

It´s simply illegal and will most likely put you in jail if you model the insignia of the "Third Reich". That´s why you won´t find it on any kind of a model, be it railways, planes, ships or any other model specific to that era.

Edited February 2, 2020 by Sir Madog

[maico]

On 02/02/2020 at 00:07, Sir Madog said:

It´s simply illegal and will most likely put you in jail if you model the insignia of the "Third Reich". That´s why you won´t find it on any kind of a model, be it railways, planes, ships or any other model specific to that era.

 

Rails of Sheffield apparently ship to Germany

 

https://www.ebay.de/itm/MICRO-FEINMECHANIK-HO-02612H-L-DR-CLASS-02-101-4-6-2-STEAM-LOCO-1936-OLYMPICS/132800262279?hash=item1eeb833087:g:dp8AAOSwze5br4Qf&shqty=1&isGTR=1#shId

 

Edited February 7, 2020 by maico

[melmerby]

So there you are in Berlin in a dark, windowless railway room playing with your naughty Nazi locos from a company in Ergoldsbach (Germany). (bought from Rails)

Edited February 8, 2020 by melmerby

[maico]

26 minutes ago, melmerby said:

So there you are in Berlin in a dark, windowless railway room playing with your naughty Nazi locos from a company in Ergoldsbach. (bought from Rails)

 

Grandad's Marklin in the attic could well have a Swaztika on it. It's legal for a dealer in Germany to sell a pre-1945 item like that as long as it is adverised with the anti-constitional bit covered up...

Edited February 8, 2020 by maico

[Vinedusk]

The german legislation relates to a "banned political party"; and using associated symbols relating to those organisations.

I have never seen any loco portrayed with the Nazi swastika as depicted above.

 

All imagery I have seen has been of the Reichsadler,  the german eagle suspending the swastika from its feet.

This has been placed in the same locations as the previous logo for the DRG.  The BR18 has it on the front of the cab also.

 

Models displaying this have altered the swastika to resemble a diamond or check pattern in most cases.

The topic of the discussion, the BR06, has its version on the tender.

 

[Nearholmer]

One observation about the ‘modelling railways of the war period’ thing is that even in the UK nobody would have touched that period with a barge pole until quite recently - I don’t think those who were there at the time wanted to remember it.

 

Same applied to WW1 ‘trench railway’ models, which could be done quite well from the 1960s onwards using rtr and kit 009, but were mega-rare until recently. 
 

Even all the embarrassing jingoistic WW2 b*ll*cks, ‘it was all pulling-together and Woolton pie’ nonsense, and dressing-up as soldiers thing that goes on in England (less so the rest of the UK) is fairly new.
 

It is definitely not how the war was thought of in the 50s, 60s, 70, or even 80s, and my father’s and grandparent’s generations would have given the people who indulge in it a good ear-bashing about why it wasn’t a subject for make-believe games or idiotic flag-waving, but for genuine solemn reflection.

Edited February 8, 2020 by Nearholmer

[melmerby]

4 hours ago, Vinedusk said:

The german legislation relates to a "banned political party"; and using associated symbols relating to those organisations.

I have never seen any loco portrayed with the Nazi swastika as depicted above.

 

 

A problem with banning the Swastika is that it was widespread throughout many cultures before the Nazis appropriated & corrupted it and is still common in the religions of the East.

I visited a Hindu temple in India that was plastered with them.

e.g.

Here's an American postcard from 1910:

 

Remembering what the Nazis did and reading that postcard couldn't have more opposed views.

 

[Nearholmer]

It was the trademark of ASEA, the Swedish equivalent of GEC too, until about 1934.

 

The traction substations on the SR electrification of the 1930s had ASEA remote control systems, and those on the Brighton Line had equipment plastered with swastikas, which felt a tad eerie.

[Allegheny1600]

5 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

It is definitely not how the war was thought of in the 50s, 60s, 70, or even 80s, and my father’s and grandparent’s generations would have given the people who indulge in it a good ear-bashing about why it wasn’t a subject for make-believe games or idiotic flag-waving, but for genuine solemn reflection.

Exactly and thank you, good Sir for pointing this out.

On that note, I shall ask for no further discussion on this subject else this topic WILL disappear and that's not heavy handed moderation, just good taste and respect. 

Such discussions will inevitably end on a sour note if due respect is not observed.

John E. (moderator of this section).

[Johann Marsbar]

1 hour ago, Nearholmer said:

It was the trademark of ASEA, the Swedish equivalent of GEC too, until about 1934.

 

The traction substations on the SR electrification of the 1930s had ASEA remote control systems, and those on the Brighton Line had equipment plastered with swastikas, which felt a tad eerie.

 

And don't forget the Finnish airforce who used it from 1918.......

 

 

It was the personal emblem (and "good luck" charm) of the Swedish Count who donated them their first aircraft in 1918, so was used from that date as their national insignia.

Whilst they were "encouraged" to change it to a blue & white roundel on aircraft in 1945, It's still in use for ceremonial occasions on flags/banners, or certainly was when I was there in 1998.

 

 

[maico]

Another loco which only 2 were built was the DR 61 built in 1935 by Henschel. Jim's video shows the Trix set running in it's violet/cream/silver livery. In late 1940 they were painted dark gray and survived the War.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GToj9wX0gfU

 

 

[Nearholmer]

I'm no into models of big German locos (very small feldbahn locos yes, big ones no), but these are all superb pieces of engineering aren't they?

 

Interesting to note that some references say that the D 311 diesel-electrics were directly based on the prototype supplied for the Paris-Nice heavy expresses in the late 1930s. Those prototypes (I think there were two, from different consortia of manufacturers) were incredible machines, and so very stylish too.

[Andy Hayter]

I take it you mean this one:

 

http://wikiplm.railsdautrefois.fr/wikiPLM/index.php?title=Fichier:262_AD_1_01_RS.jpg

 

and this one

 

http://wikiplm.railsdautrefois.fr/wikiPLM/index.php?title=Fichier:262_BD_1_JLC.jpg

[Nearholmer]

Yep.

 

The locos I most wish I'd seen and heard in service.

 

I like the styling of the second of those most. I think that was the Sulzer-engined one, whereas the D 311 originally had Krupp [Wrong! MAN] engines, and matched the first, but was later altered to have Maybach engines to standardise with the V 200.

Edited February 8, 2020 by Nearholmer

[maico]

See https://www.derbysulzers.com/sncf262BD1.html

[Nearholmer]

Somewhere I've got a poster picture that I think was originally a PLM advert, showing the big Sulzer diesel and their streamlined steamer, both in original(?) solid blue livery ......... magnifique. Their blue was richer I think than LNER garter blue, and somehow instantly evokes thoughts of the Med under baking sun.

 

Found a copy on line. I’d forgotten the caption.

 

Edited February 8, 2020 by Nearholmer

[Andy Hayter]

It's not a poster, it is the front cover of the PLM company in house magazine (July 37) that was also available on subscription to non-staff.

Since we have been talking models of one-off or at least small run prototypes, both of these have been made  by Fulgurex and are currently available:

 

https://www.pierredominique.com/p3-nos-produits.html?p_marque=9,15

 

Oh for a cool €5k sitting around without a home.

[maico]

The cabine de conduite looks fun...

 

Edited February 8, 2020 by maico

[Nearholmer]

Its amazing really that the PLM had games consoles in 1937, let alone allowed drivers to play on them while at work.

[Nearholmer]

1 hour ago, Andy Hayter said:

It's not a poster

 

But the one I've got is. Its not anything original, a modern copy. I bought it in a tourist shop while on holiday a few years ago, put it away somewhere and will have to hunt it out ........... I'd remembered it being an advert, but clearly it is what you say.

[maico]

Does anyone know who makes the flak car being pulled by this BR06?

REI make that sort of thing but I can't see it listed  https://www.reynaulds.com/rei-models.aspx