DIY shops - Reopening after lockdown

[rockershovel]

22 minutes ago, Derekl said:

I was surprised to hear on Radio 4 "More or less" that there is some statistical basis for the 2 metre rule. A US study on influenza tested the exhalations of a patient lying in bed, breathing (not coughing or sneezing) and found that the larger droplets were around the head, smaller towards the end of the bed. The physics are that the larger droplets fall by gravity probably within 1 metre of a standing person. The smaller droplets were, somewhat alarmingly, described as akin to dust in a sunbeam which, if correct, suggests to me they can wander all over the place. On the upside it is unclear whether the virus contents of such small droplets can be infectious - in other words it is there to be found, but not in quantities that could infect. Not sure I want to be the first to find out, though. 

You are better off outside than in - outside droplets will disperse quickly, less so in a confined space (as you might expect).

So, woefully off topic, but the 2 metre rule seems to be sort of scientifically based on a 1 metre danger zone for large droplets plus some wriggle room.

 

Which is not “woefully off topic” at all, given the actual results of attempting to carry out any sort of business activity at the same time as maintaining 2m separation. 

 

I’ve seen the same study, or something very similar, interpreted to mean that 1m is the practical limit of useful separation. It may well be the basis of the WHO recommendations, which specifically mention “coughing and sneezing”. 

[woodenhead]

I think 2 metres because people will find it harder to estimate 1 metre so you pick a larger number knowing people will be closer than that but probably still 1 metre away.

 

Queuing into Sainsburys would bear out my theory as we don't tend to stand that far apart.

 

I went to B&Q last Friday, went at 5pm, shuts at 6pm, the only queue was for the tills.

[rockershovel]

1 metre is a very simple dimension, being a yard, near enough. It’s the distance from one shoulder, to the opposite outstretched fingertip. 

 

From long experience of setting out on site, even people who do it regularly are often inconsistent when it comes to estimates of distances greater than about 1.2m (4ft) or even pacing out metres on the ground. 

 

Plus there is all the tape and paint everywhere.... it isn’t even as though it is proven to work. Only one other country (Spain) has used 2m, and the results aren’t encouraging. 

 

I’m afraid I regard the whole matter as shamefully amateurish, like the presentation of data which displays no consistency between patients who have died OF coronavirus, or WITH it diagnosed as part of a suite of other pre-existing conditions, or other infections. We now seem to be attempting to restart the economy on the basis of a “best guess”...

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 22, 2020 by rockershovel

[vaughan45]

2m is only effective when people are breathing normally. Without a mask if they are laughing, coughing, sneezing then the projection range is likely to be further. Runners & cyclists also leave a slip-stream so if a cyclist passes you walking you may inhale the blowback. Even Spain has now imposed a requirement for face coverings to be worn which whilst it may not offer that much protection to the wearer, will limit the distance toxins are being breathed out by those infected.

 

Unfortunately there will be a delayed second wave that will occur after the main restrictions end in July as we are currently in a short period of complacency as the numbers fall. Taking into account incubation periods, demands on the NHS are likely to increase from September onwards, just as the annual flu season demand surge gets underway. As someone who is currently 'Shielding' to the end of June - I suspect I won't be going anywhere without a face covering and plastic visor.

[teaky]

1 hour ago, rockershovel said:

1 metre is a very simple dimension, being a yard, near enough. It’s the distance from one shoulder, to the opposite outstretched fingertip. 

I thought that snippet might be handy at some point but I've just checked and it is 1.2m for me.  Since I'm roughly 10% taller than the average UK male height of 1.75m (5' 9"), I assume most men would also have a similar shoulder to finger tip measurement of more than a metre.  Still, I'll be able to check timber sheet sizes easily.

 

Not the main point of your post, so not important.

[Colin_McLeod]

4 hours ago, rockershovel said:

Interesting piece in the Times a day or two ago, to the effect that only one other country (Spain) is using 2m for "social distancing" and their results aren't much better than ours. It certainly isn't leading the pack. 

 

WHO guidelines actually say "1m where possible, and 1m from persons coughing and sneezing" so what the basis for 2m actually is, who knows? However I rather suspect that after several weeks of almost continuous repetition, especially on TV, it will be extremely difficult to reverse, especially when there is no real statistical basis. 

 

 

The WHO guidelines can be questionable sometimes.

 

In Ireland It is also 2 metres.

 

Of course if I stay one metre from you and you stay one metre from me then that's two meters; simpler

[spamcan61]

4 hours ago, Derekl said:

 

So, woefully off topic, but the 2 metre rule seems to be sort of scientifically based on a 1 metre danger zone for large droplets plus some wriggle room.

Trouble is, that not particularly scientific wriggle room is very expensive in terms of  reducing public transport  and retail shop / pub / wherever capacity.

[rockershovel]

1 hour ago, spamcan61 said:

Trouble is, that not particularly scientific wriggle room is very expensive in terms of  reducing public transport  and retail shop / pub / wherever capacity.

 

Exactly. Lack of precision in thought, comes at a price.

 

FWIW, a “clothyard arrow”, defined as the distance from the archer’s hand to the tip of his nose, is reckoned to be 30”, on average, so “beyond arms length” would be quite a simple way of defining “a metre”.

 

 It was a Flemish unit, the formerly used English Ell (measured by holding the cloth to the shoulder, and extending the opposite arm) was about 45” , the Scottish Ell about 37”. The Flemish clothyard is thought to have been defined by the loom used to make it; an early example of mass production. 

 

 

Edited May 22, 2020 by rockershovel

[rockershovel]

1 hour ago, teaky said:

I thought that snippet might be handy at some point but I've just checked and it is 1.2m for me.  Since I'm roughly 10% taller than the average UK male height of 1.75m (5' 9"), I assume most men would also have a similar shoulder to finger tip measurement of more than a metre.  Still, I'll be able to check timber sheet sizes easily.

 

Not the main point of your post, so not important.

 

I doubt if many of Caesar’s centurions actually had feet twelve inches long, either.

[teaky]

That might depend on what you used to measure an inch.

[rockershovel]

35 minutes ago, teaky said:

That might depend on what you used to measure an inch.

 

Isn’t it the top joint of the thumb? 

[teaky]

4 hours ago, rockershovel said:

 

Isn’t it the top joint of the thumb? 

If it is, I'm shorter than I thought I was and I have small feet. 

[rockershovel]

Today’s discovery, Crown Decorating Supplies at Fengate. Been there for years, selling mostly to the trade painters but suddenly doing a thriving trade selling paint, brushes etc to anyone who can’t be doing with the queues at B&Q. They also mix to order, which B&Q won’t at present. 

 

At this rate, I’ll never set foot in B&Q again...

 

[37114]

3 hours ago, rockershovel said:

Today’s discovery, Crown Decorating Supplies at Fengate. Been there for years, selling mostly to the trade painters but suddenly doing a thriving trade selling paint, brushes etc to anyone who can’t be doing with the queues at B&Q. They also mix to order, which B&Q won’t at present. 

 

At this rate, I’ll never set foot in B&Q again...

 

Good tip. Our local B&Q is doing paint mixing again now 

[rockershovel]

1 hour ago, 37114 said:

Good tip. Our local B&Q is doing paint mixing again now 

 

Crown and also, Brewers have a national chain of shops, mostly on smaller light industrial estates. I’d recommend anyone wanting decorating supplies, to give them a look online. 

[Torper]

On 29/04/2020 at 18:11, rockershovel said:

 

https://www.wood-finishes-direct.com/info/covid  ... £100 minimum spend and “please expect delays”.....

 

Doesn't seem to say that now.  I must say that I've had excellent service and products from this company in the past.  As someone who still prefers solvent based wood preservers if possible I've found their Barratine stuff very good.

 

DT

[rockershovel]

3 minutes ago, Torper said:

 

Doesn't seem to say that now.  I must say that I've had excellent service and products from this company in the past.  As someone who still prefers solvent based wood preservers if possible I've found their Barratine stuff very good.

 

DT

 

I’ve noticed that wood treatment products seem to have become more readily available again, there must have been some temporary hiatus in supply. I sourced mine by trawling around the local outlets until I found something suitable, given that I didn’t need to match a colour and didn’t need a large quantity. 

[Reorte]

The paint I'd half painted my fence in is now listed as available again, but "available" still seems to be more in theory than practice. Only one branch in the area said available for click and collect (none for stock in store) and that vanished to unavailable when going as far as the checkout. Hopefully a temporary thing but that it was listed as an offer price too makes me think it might be being discontinued.

 

[rockershovel]

22 minutes ago, Reorte said:

The paint I'd half painted my fence in is now listed as available again, but "available" still seems to be more in theory than practice. Only one branch in the area said available for click and collect (none for stock in store) and that vanished to unavailable when going as far as the checkout. Hopefully a temporary thing but that it was listed as an offer price too makes me think it might be being discontinued.

 

 

That’s another reason I haven’t troubled with B&Q. No 1 Son spent best part of 2 hours visiting B&Q, and came back without enough to do the original job. He won’t be returning. 

[rockershovel]

Three weeks on, and stocks are still very erratic. I’ve spent the past 45 mins scratching round on-Line stocks for a small list of items - 400ml galvafroid, aluminium strip, 32mm socket - which I’d expect to pick up without difficulty at several local outlets. I still need to call and collect tomorrow for the galvafroid, because the stockist doesn’t do click and collect. 

 

Anything out of stock, forget it, there are no orders or predicted in-stock dates 

Edited June 14, 2020 by rockershovel

[Joseph_Pestell]

Very little plasterboard in B&Q this morning and not much by way of other plaster products.

[37114]

1 hour ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

Very little plasterboard in B&Q this morning and not much by way of other plaster products.

 

The construction industry is still getting back on it's feet hence British Gypsum et al are only just reopening factories, the DIY sheds on their own do not warrant the production lines being fired up.

[37114]

On 26/05/2020 at 10:28, rockershovel said:

 

I’ve noticed that wood treatment products seem to have become more readily available again, there must have been some temporary hiatus in supply. I sourced mine by trawling around the local outlets until I found something suitable, given that I didn’t need to match a colour and didn’t need a large quantity. 

Don't forget all the suppliers will have to be socially distancing so won't be fully operational.  Add in the same constraints in the down stream supply chain coupled with record demand and it will probably be some time before availability is back to normal...

[Mike Bellamy]

By coincidence we had a plasterer in on Wednesday to do a small patching job where an archway had been removed between the kitchen and dining area at home. He had a few half bags at home to do jobs like this but told me that he couldn't get any more supplies and full bags were being sold for silly prices through ebay and facebook.

 

Whilst he was finishing off, his phone rang. A customer, who was waiting for a big job to be done, just happened to be in the local B&Q when they wheeled in a pallet load of Multifinish. The customer immediately got a trolley and grabbed 10 bags so that his job could be next on the list. Apparently someone else took 20 and so the pile was reduced quite quickly. He didn't say how much he paid but we assume it was at the usual B&Q price.

 

The work we had done was preparation for a kitchen installation by Wickes and when we went there today to check a few things, the salesman said that most of the plaster they had received so far had been reserved for their fitters so that they can complete jobs (and get paid!).

 

Mike