Leeds Victoria, Dewsbury Midland and Bradford London Rd a never finished oo layout

[Barry O]

The layout (as Leeds Victoria) went to the Leeds Show in 1977 then Barrow in Furness the following Easter. 

For the show at Barrow the next two baseboards were built (again from Ply by John Aldrick and myself..I was teh brute "force" bit of the team).

 

Track was laid onto the new boards- these were SMP yard lengths so it didn't take long. Nicktoix wired them up.. this meant we could put the layout up in the then club rooms and Play  with operate it. A lot of testing was done (being a student with "free time came in handy". Additional signals ( a Pratt Truss Gantry) were constructed , stock was amassed and tested...

 

The Exhibition in Barrow was then held in what is now Forum 28. It had a polished dance floor.....First off the legs started to collapse so string was used to stop this. Then the layout started to slide off down the hall.. a nail in the stage was found and more string used to anchor the layout to the stage. The hall was also very very hot. Mike Edge cut large sections of excess rail out of various track joints (and we never had them appear as larger gaps once the layout was back in the club room. 

 

The layout was well received and we all enjoyed the show.  The weekend included a visit to the then Vickers dock railway lines as well as several drinking establishments! Little did I know I would end up parking on the Dock Road in more recent times while I worked in the Yard!

 

Hospitality was brilliant and we still have friends in the Club in Barrow.

 

Next up - how did we couple the stock together.. the SJR Mk42.. hopefully someone in the club will have a diagram of how to make these.. mine is down the club!

 

Baz

 

 

[Michael Edge]

I'm not sure the nail was actually found in the stage, I might have had to hammer it in as well. The rails closed up on the baseboard joints on each of the three days of the show and I cut some out each time - the gaps never reappeared anywhere.

The SJR coupler (Mk42 might be slight exaggeration) was basically an upside down Triang - or "tension lock" as people call it today. I've still got two in use between the 6 wheel fish vans, I'll dig them out and take some photos tomorrow.

[St Enodoc]

3 hours ago, Michael Edge said:

I'm not sure the nail was actually found in the stage, I might have had to hammer it in as well. The rails closed up on the baseboard joints on each of the three days of the show and I cut some out each time - the gaps never reappeared anywhere.

The SJR coupler (Mk42 might be slight exaggeration) was basically an upside down Triang - or "tension lock" as people call it today. I've still got two in use between the 6 wheel fish vans, I'll dig them out and take some photos tomorrow.

I've still got one in use between my 14xx and autocoach.

[St Enodoc]

On 12/05/2020 at 06:36, Barry O said:

Our controllers were all prototype "Q Drivers". The hand set was made from a GRP moulding taken from a Heinz salad spread jar, It was fitted with a reversing switch and a logarithmic slider. A large lump of rod was also included for sue as the point probe. The hand set was permanently linked by cable to the control box. This had a red lamp (lit when a short was detected) and a green lamp ( which lit when the controller "detected" a train)

 

On 12/05/2020 at 07:19, St Enodoc said:

Photos to follow, although mine were the deluxe version with a thumbwheel not a slider. Years of experiencing "operator's thumb" led to that spec change.

And here they are:

 

A pair of complete Q-drivers, probably still in working order although they haven't been used for about 25 years.

 

The handset...

 

...and the control box.

[Michael Edge]

I've dug out my two 6 wheel fish vans to photograph the SJR Mk10 couplings, these two vans always run together so they have kept these at one end (DGs on the other ends).

From underneath the construction is apparent, most of it is made from soft iron wire bent round a jig of pins in a wood block. The hooks are mounted in a short length of brass tube soldered to a plate, the inner extension of the hooks have a small lead counterweight to return the hooks upwards. The design is essentially the Triang (tension lock) coupling turned upside down, the extra bit turned back on the top of the hook serves two purposes, it restricts the downward movement and acts as a buffer when propelling.

From above with the couplers engaged, one of the disadvantages shows up here - with the best will in the world the hooks could never be identical and usually only one really engaged with the loop. Any error or damage to the shape of the hook tended to produce a lifting effect on the wagons as well.

Uncoupling was done by stopping on a permanent magnet, both hooks are attracted downwards, if you keep on  propelling they re-engage.

Most locos just needed the loop fitted without the hook, easy to solder inside or through the buffer beam.

We used these couplings for a good few years in the Leeds club, eventually changing to DGs for the delayed uncoupling facility. They had a number of disadvantages, one detailed above but the main one was the same as the present standard UK coupler in that the pull is off centre (in our case the push was off centre as well), the DGs are all on the centre line of the vehicles.

 

[Dr Gerbil-Fritters]

On 22/05/2020 at 20:42, Barry O said:

I still can't find tit.

Baz

 

Me neither.  Great thread though - a proper layout, not one of those endless circles with a station on one side and a piddle yard on the other.  I hate those.

[St Enodoc]

8 hours ago, Dr Gerbil-Fritters said:

 

Me neither.  Great thread though - a proper layout, not one of those endless circles with a station on one side and a piddle yard on the other.  I hate those.

This was one of a few layouts that proved the exception to the general rule, that a good operating layout makes a less-good exhibition layout and vice versa. Borchester Market was another.

[St Enodoc]

9 hours ago, Michael Edge said:

They had a number of disadvantages, one detailed above but the main one was the same as the present standard UK coupler in that the pull is off centre (in our case the push was off centre as well), the DGs are all on the centre line of the vehicles.

Another, sometimes, was finding room for the counterweight behind the buffer beam. I had a Weltrol that fell into that category.

[Barry O]

But..they allowed us to operate the layout without the hand of god uncoupling (oe big strips of see through plastic to uncouple stock with triang couplings.

 

Baz

[St Enodoc]

56 minutes ago, Barry O said:

But..they allowed us to operate the layout without the hand of god uncoupling (oe big strips of see through plastic to uncouple stock with triang couplings.

 

Baz

Oh yes! They served us well until DG couplings appeared. A lot easier (and cheaper) to make and fit than S&W too, which were about the only other choice at the time. S&W magnets were good though.

[Dr Gerbil-Fritters]

I'd pay good money to see an operating layout again, the last one I saw that satisfied me was Happisburgh. 

 

Cavalcades of trains processing around a circle just doesn't excite me, even if they are an exact coach by coach replica of the 9.05 Tiddlebottom Market to Kings Cross on the third Wednesday in June 1955,

 

I wonder why they've gone out of fashion?  

[Michael Edge]

4 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

Oh yes! They served us well until DG couplings appeared. A lot easier (and cheaper) to make and fit than S&W too, which were about the only other choice at the time. S&W magnets were good though.

Before that the 00 section of the club used H&N couplings, also magnetically operated they had a pivoted loop which moved downwards and a fixed hook. Similar disadvantage to the SJR in finding room for the counterweight, but the biggest factor was that they were single ended. I don't have any photos of these but they were (along with Sprat & Winkle) part of Steve's experimental progression. I changed my stock from H/D/Peco to these when I joined in 1972.

[Michael Edge]

3 hours ago, Dr Gerbil-Fritters said:

I'd pay good money to see an operating layout again, the last one I saw that satisfied me was Happisburgh. 

 

Cavalcades of trains processing around a circle just doesn't excite me, even if they are an exact coach by coach replica of the 9.05 Tiddlebottom Market to Kings Cross on the third Wednesday in June 1955,

 

I wonder why they've gone out of fashion?  

Not out of fashion round here, wait for Herculaneum Dock again - some trains might go round and round but most of the layout has to be worked.

[Barry O]

Part 2 Dewsbury Midland to Bradford London Road

Baseboards

Track

Buildings

Control Panels

Operation

Banking

Signals

Exhibitions

 

 

got a bit distracted making wagons etc over the last couple of weeks

 

So on to Dewsbury and Bradford London Road..

 

The Baseboards were built from heavyweight ply glued and screwed together  it was fairly cold and wet where the baseboards were built but they were as solid as a rock.John Aldrick and myself were involved in the manufacture of these boards. Like all other boards they were bolted together using all sorts of bolts (including the odd Whitworth Thread).

 

Pointwork was built off board then added when ready.. plain track was SMP and then it was all ballasted. Wiring was undertaken by Nicktoix.  A magnificent overbridge was placed across one end of Dewsbury Midland. A suitable station building was added ..in this case a Model of Armley Canal Road. This was built by Ian (Lofty) Lofthouse. Someone stole the bridge and buildings from one of our clubrooms. Some of the otehr builings may have come from Mike Edges old Wigan Wallgate layout.

 

The control panels were similar to those at Victoria, a seperate control panel was used to control the nearby sorting yard which was part of the continuous loop.

 

 

as shown in this picture complete with a perplexed St Enodoc, Until we finished Bradford we used Dewsbury as a "terminus". This made life interesting.

 

There were a number of platform roads as well as DMU stabling sidings. The original Lima  OO Class 33s were used as station pilots and on passenger trains as we no longer had easy access to Mike Coles Stock.

 

More soom

[St Enodoc]

3 hours ago, Barry O said:

Part 2 Dewsbury Midland to Bradford London Road

Baseboards

Track

Buildings

Control Panels

Operation

Banking

Signals

Exhibitions

 

 

got a bit distracted making wagons etc over the last couple of weeks

 

So on to Dewsbury and Bradford London Road..

 

The Baseboards were built from heavyweight ply glued and screwed together  it was fairly cold and wet where the baseboards were built but they were as solid as a rock.John Aldrick and myself were involved in the manufacture of these boards. Like all other boards they were bolted together using all sorts of bolts (including the odd Whitworth Thread).

 

Pointwork was built off board then added when ready.. plain track was SMP and then it was all ballasted. Wiring was undertaken by Nicktoix.  A magnificent overbridge was placed across one end of Dewsbury Midland. A suitable station building was added ..in this case a Model of Armley Canal Road. This was built by Ian (Lofty) Lofthouse. Someone stole the bridge and buildings from one of our clubrooms. Some of the otehr builings may have come from Mike Edges old Wigan Wallgate layout.

 

The control panels were similar to those at Victoria, a seperate control panel was used to control the nearby sorting yard which was part of the continuous loop.

 

 

as shown in this picture complete with a perplexed St Enodoc, Until we finished Bradford we used Dewsbury as a "terminus". This made life interesting.

 

There were a number of platform roads as well as DMU stabling sidings. The original Lima  OO Class 33s were used as station pilots and on passenger trains as we no longer had easy access to Mike Coles Stock.

 

More soom

Corn Exchange 1979 I reckon. Dewsbury was certainly "interesting" to operate as a terminus with only four platforms compared with six at Leeds Victoria. Using Platform 4 (where the Class 33 and parcels vans are) involved the long crossover, which effectively stopped the job on the fast lines. Hours of fun.

[lofty.ian]

Quote

 

I remember Nicktoix handing me a bunch of photos of Armley Canal Road with the usual suggestion I might like to build a model of it  - renamed as Dewsbury Midland.  After agreeing, I was told it was on a road bridge so I ended up building that as well.  To survive the rigours of an exhibition layout having a large multiple span, it had a core of wood and ply which was 'tested' by standing on it (before the parapets and embossed plastic facing were added).

I still have the photographs.

[Barry O]

Not sure it was 1979. I have an original of the Dewsbury Signal diagram. Dated Jan 1980..I only built the signals for Dewsbury until every one agreed where and what the signals should be. Nearly all were ex Midland Signals..one was a very long Pratt Truss gantry...

 

 

note the "outer Goods  Loop, a link to the Goods Yard @lofty.ian seemed to like being in there and the Goods link.. which was the only line which did complete a whole circuit..This was the scene of mad last hour tests .. generally won by Alan Spetch's DB "Donald Duck" for speed.

 

Below Platform 1 were a couple of DMU/local coach sidings. Interesting place to be an operator.

 

The MPD was only really tried at a show in Nottingham . we needed a bit of fettling which didn't seem to get done. BUT.. in this form a turntable was very necessary.

 

Work out where the bankers would stand to go up the hill..and how to get them back down in the correct place for the next operation!

 

Baz

[St Enodoc]

18 hours ago, Barry O said:

Not sure it was 1979. I have an original of the Dewsbury Signal diagram. Dated Jan 1980..I only built the signals for Dewsbury until every one agreed where and what the signals should be. Nearly all were ex Midland Signals..one was a very long Pratt Truss gantry...

 

 

note the "outer Goods  Loop, a link to the Goods Yard @lofty.ian seemed to like being in there and the Goods link.. which was the only line which did complete a whole circuit..This was the scene of mad last hour tests .. generally won by Alan Spetch's DB "Donald Duck" for speed.

 

Below Platform 1 were a couple of DMU/local coach sidings. Interesting place to be an operator.

 

The MPD was only really tried at a show in Nottingham . we needed a bit of fettling which didn't seem to get done. BUT.. in this form a turntable was very necessary.

 

Work out where the bankers would stand to go up the hill..and how to get them back down in the correct place for the next operation!

 

Baz

I guessed 1979 because I assumed it was a Leeds show on account of the corrugated cardboard. 1980 possibly because in 1981 I had my own layout there and I think Bradford was built by 1982. So, probably 1980 - any other clues?

 

The platform numbers have become reversed since the original plan (post 1) was drawn!

[Barry O]

I would agree with 1980.

 

From agreeing these at Easter I built all of the signals ready for the show.

 

there was a good variety

 

most could be made fairly easily from the Ratio bits

 

 

and most ex LMS or earlier

 

Unfortunately some have lost their basis from old age and being "pulled" from the baseboards at the end of shows. Blu tack is far stronger than some people realise!

 

 

Baz

[Dr Gerbil-Fritters]

You got Ratio signals to work?

 

[Michael Edge]

Cwmafon is fully signalled with all of them working and made from Ratio kits - GW, LNW and LMS/BR. They are a bit fragile though.

GW signals at the end of Cwmafon station, all these arms work, powered by relays and interlocked wth the points.

[St Enodoc]

9 hours ago, Dr Gerbil-Fritters said:

You got Ratio signals to work?

 

8 hours ago, Michael Edge said:

Cwmafon is fully signalled with all of them working and made from Ratio kits - GW, LNW and LMS/BR. They are a bit fragile though.

 

GW signals at the end of Cwmafon station, all these arms work, powered by relays and interlocked wth the points.

All my signals are Ratio, operated by memory wire actuators (including ground discs). These actuators give a nice gentle movement. If I were starting afresh I might use servos, as memory wire is not so easy to get nowadays.

[St Enodoc]

On 02/06/2020 at 17:56, St Enodoc said:

 

And here they are:

 

A pair of complete Q-drivers, probably still in working order although they haven't been used for about 25 years.

 

The handset...

 

...and the control box.

Quick update: these have found a new home back in Yorkshire on @Barry O's Leeds London Road layout.

 

 

 

More than 40 years old and still going strong (much more in Baz's case)!

Edited November 16, 2020 by St Enodoc

[Barry O]

Sorry for the long delay in updates....

 

One of the problems we had was .. well St Enodoc and myself had to move away from Leeds to do real jobs.... The signals were built in St Evenage.  While trips to Club exhibitions continued actual helping to progress the layout was a bit limited.

 

Meanwhile two extension boards were built - all of 18" long.. to make the whole layout 18" wider.. typically these were the only boards to warp! (Cos I let John A build these himself. 

 

Work continued down at the Club. The track along the "front" of the layout was eventually sorted so that trains could go out of Dewsbury to Bradford London Road.  (and also to allow a continuous run around the goods (Slow) line.) 

 

The Baseboards were of the same construction as all of the rest of the layout. Track was again handbuilt points with SMP plain track. 

 

As this was an ex LNWR station the buildings were built in the correct styles. But, for some reason I built  a very large Midland style Wool Warehouse for use in the  yard based on some drawings of a real (Midland?) based one in Bradford. It used ply faced with embossed plastic card. When fitted one of the lines passed through the building. This did cause problems when one member continued to push wagons through the Warehouse and out the other side. This continued until the train of wagons touched the floor.  Luckily all wagons were recovered safely.. those SJR couplings were strong!

 

This terminus was an interesting one a the platform lengths meant that the  Bradford Station operator had to be on the ball as 3 long trains could be "parked" in platforms at Leeds Vic.. but only two would fit in the platforms at Bradford.   As the Bradford operator was likely to receive passenger services in no organised order (depending on who as operating Victoria and if the tidal system was in operation). It meant that train operation was fairly slick and always entertaining. With being hidden away for direct public view it also meant the operator could "cheat" a little bit if required.

 

I can't locate any photos of Bradford or signalling details so I am unsure if I built signals for this, the final bit of the layout.

 

Baz

[St Enodoc]

5 hours ago, Barry O said:

St Enodoc and myself had to move away from Leeds to do real jobs

Move away? Yes (although we both moved back again later). Real jobs? Not so sure.

 

I haven't got any photos of Bradford London Road but here's one of a train that's just left there (I might have posted this before). It's about to dive into the tunnel under Leeds Victoria and continue through the deep cuttings towards Dewsbury Midland:

 

Corn Exchange 1980.

 

You must have built these signals at Royds Hall Junction so I suspect you built them for the station too.

Edited December 12, 2020 by St Enodoc